Prophetic Worship?

[hopeful1]

ok, not sure if this is the right place to post this (if not i'm sure it'll be moved ) but i know this board is more diverse so hopefully someone here will know what i'm talking about. but anyways....

i have a friend that goes to a nondenominational church and he and his church seem to really be into this thing called "prophetic worship". I don't know much about it, but in away it freaks me out a little bit (not trying to offend anyone here that's into that stuff, but understand i'm here to learn). Now i tried looking this up in the bible, and i know that prophecy is considered a spiritual gift in corinthians and romans, but i'm also aware that it also says in the bible to "beware of false prophets", which has me concerned for my friend. Can anyone on here please explain to me what this is? Can anyone here also explain how the gift of prophecy/prophetic worship is understood in catholic and protestant circles. thank you.

[phatcatholic]

it has been my experience that prophecy in non-catholic circles is usually concerned with predicting when the rapture, or second coming, or tribulation will be. some people delve into revelations and the book of daniel and think they have found the hidden nugget of knowledge that no one else knows. and the whole Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye just adds fuel to the fire.

catholics don't really concern themselves w/ prophecy like this. for one, we know that Jesus will come again like a theif in the night. no one will know when or where. that is why we comit ourselves daily to our Lord. secondly, we know that the Bible is not meant to be a crystal ball or a goldmine of esoteric truth. so we don't bother trying to put it to such a use. finally, we have the Church which guides us in the absense of our Lord until He comes again. so, we have a little bit more security in that regard.

i'm not sure if i've answered your question. its probably too far past my bedtime for me to start trying to answer questions anyway! hehe....

i hope this helps......pax christi,
phatcatholic

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='hopeful1' date='May 5 2004, 11:30 PM'] ok, not sure if this is the right place to post this (if not i'm sure it'll be moved ) but i know this board is more diverse so hopefully someone here will know what i'm talking about. but anyways....

i have a friend that goes to a nondenominational church and he and his church seem to really be into this thing called "prophetic worship". I don't know much about it, but in away it freaks me out a little bit (not trying to offend anyone here that's into that stuff, but understand i'm here to learn). Now i tried looking this up in the bible, and i know that prophecy is considered a spiritual gift in corinthians and romans, but i'm also aware that it also says in the bible to "beware of false prophets", which has me concerned for my friend. Can anyone on here please explain to me what this is? Can anyone here also explain how the gift of prophecy/prophetic worship is understood in catholic and protestant circles. thank you. [/quote]
CAn you give us some more details?

Lumberjack or Adam do you know what this is?

[p0lar_bear]

The gift of prophecy is among the "charismatic" gifts. As with the Old Testament prophecies, the majority of prophetic words are exhortations, corrections, encouragements, or directions. They can refer to future events, but a prophecy is not the same thing as a prediction. Whether it involves future events or not, a prophecy is a word of God spoken to His People. If authentic, these prophecies would fall under the category of “private revelation,” words which do not “improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation” but rather to help Catholics “live more fully by it in a certain period of history” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 67).

Though the Church has affirmed the legitimacy of the charismatic gifts, not all manifestations are authentic. While it is important to be open to the Spirit, it is also important to discern the true origin of these experiences. The Apostle John warns us, “do no believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 Jn 4:1). We must test these gifts to discern whether they are from the person, the devil, or God. The discernment of spirits is often listed as a charismatic gift because the Spirit helps us to recognize something as from God or from another source.

Discerning between authentic and inauthentic manifestations can be difficult, especially for someone not acquainted with the manifestations of charismatic gifts. Several keys can aid in the discernment of spirits. Matthew 12:33 tells us “a tree is known by its fruit.” Looking at the fruit of the message and at the fruit of the gift in the life of the person can be telling. The personal sanctity of the person is not an absolute measure. Just as God used Balaam to bless the Israelites and proclaim them as the Chosen People (Num. 22), sinners and unbelievers can receive charismatic gifts. On the other hand, a holy person may mistake his or her own zealousness and emotional responses for authentic gifts. However, those involved with authentic gifts should be drawn into the heart of the Church. Disunity or disobedience to the Church in the name of the Spirit is a contradiction; such a message is not authentic. The Holy Spirit does not lead people into sin, but rather to the Light.

The desire of the person seeking these gifts should also be consistent with the teachings of the Church. The gifts should not be sought so much as the Giver. Authentic gifts are not forms of divination or fortune-telling, and should not be sought as such.

Edited May 6, 2004 by p0lar_bear

[the lumberjack]

cmom, A LOT of churches out there believe that the gift of prophecy is a commonplace thing...that it can be handed out like waterbottles or something. so, they commonly "prophecy" over one another...and others that come in.

I liken it to the ever so lovely word of faith group...blah.

yes, the Lord gives that powerful gift to some...but not to as many people as most of those churches claim to have it...its a sad thing to see the Bible taken out of context...even in the slightest.

kinda like the snake handlers in the Appalachian mountains...yup...snake handlers.

God bless.

Christ first and only.

[Livin_the_MASS]

If I read you new pic right LJ it says:

"The last time Jesus showed up in church they killed him"?


Should this be allowed mods?

[cmotherofpirl]

It would be more accurate to read Temple.

[M.SIGGA]

If it's real, there can't be anything wrong with it. Use your discernment from the Holy Spirit because evil stuff is really obvious most of the time.

I used to be really skeptical, but there was once a guy at this retreat I was on who was going through an intense spiritual trial, but he kept it secret from everyone, and during adoration, another stranger came up to him and was able to tell the guy exactly what was going on and the two became very close prayer partners afterwards. The guy who had the problem is now all better and he testified about this at the next retreat as being exactly what he needed from God, because he was too embarrased to seek outside assistance and it was the best way for God to miraculously answer the prayer.

I thought this was a good example of how it is good. SOME of that televangelist stuff though looks kinda sketchy

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='May 6 2004, 12:45 PM'] It would be more accurate to read Temple. [/quote]
or change Jesus to Steven maybe? I hope it's not something derrogatory talking about Mass

[Mickey's_Girl]

p0lar_bear--

I thought your explanation was FANTASTIC! It seems like you're coming from the Catholic perspective...am I right? Funny, because the Assemblies of God would explain it just the same (of course not assuming "Church" as the Catholic church).

I'm glad you explained, 'cause I thought I was going to have to, and I don't have the mental capacity this week!

As far as "prophetic worship" is concerned, I've never heard the two words put together, and the coupling of them makes me smell fishy-ness (although I could be wrong). As far as I understand it, any "prophecy" (as explained so ably by PB) has nothing to do with "worship" (as in "praise and worship", i.e. music, often accompanied by prayers to God praising him)...[i]unless[/i] they mean "worship" in the broader sense, as in living our whole lives as an act of worship.

M. Sigga: Televangelist stuff is DEFINITELY sketchy. There's a whole TV network (can't remember the name) full of people who, at best, can only be labeled "charlatans" (sigh).

Lumberjack: Word of Faith: BAD!

MG

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='May 6 2004, 05:30 PM'] M. Sigga: Televangelist stuff is DEFINITELY sketchy. There's a whole TV network (can't remember the name) full of people who, at best, can only be labeled "charlatans" (sigh). [/quote]
[b]TBN: Trinity Broadcasting Network[/b]?

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='May 6 2004, 03:30 PM'] Lumberjack: Word of Faith: BAD!
[/quote]
There's a Word of Faith church near my house, and they were very nice people, but they believed wholeheartedly that Satan dwelled in the television (sometimes I must agree), so they had none, their kids couldn't attend public or private school, and they weren't allowed by their pastor to have a telephone - all calls and mail came through the Church. Ladied had to dress like ladies (no shorts no pants).

[cmotherofpirl]

Sigga I have to laugh when I read stuff like that, because these are probably the same people who think we follow the Pope blindly.

[Mickey's_Girl]

Paladin D: Yes, that must be the one I'm thinking of!

M. Sigga: Very sad.

Cmom: You're not far off the mark, there: some "dresses-only" people my mom knows (not sure if they're the same as your neighbors, M. Sigga) are VERY anti-Catholic, and would say exactly that about the Pope.

(MG suddenly sad; praying for all mentioned.)

MG

[Katholikos]

Isn't anyone going to defend Luther's doctrine of Sola Scriptura with its concomitant belief in private interpretation? SS, one of the foundational doctrines of Protestantism, asserts that every sincere person is led to 'all truth' when interpreting the Holy Scriptures. He "don't need no stinkin' church" ([i]Treasure of the Sierra Madre[/i]).

WOMEN'S DRESS
Deuteronomy 22:5 - "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God."

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Ladies should not wear pants. Men should not wear dresses. Whoever does it is an abomination to God. Right?

SNAKE HANDLERS
"Behold I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you" Lk 10:19.

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name, they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; and they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover" Mark 17:18-19.

It's as plain as day, folks. Jesus said belivers could pick up serpents and drink strychnine. And in some "churches," they do.

That's what the scriptures say. But what do they mean? Without an authority established by God to teach us, [u]everyone's interpretation is equally valid.[/u]

All denominations are led to different interpretations of the same 66-book cut version of the Bible, but who can say who is right?

Well, I can. I can interpret the scritures for myself. I can accept this and reject that. And so can you, and you, and you, according to Sola Scriptura.

The Bible can't say: "You misunderstand me." But the Church that was founded by Christ for the salvation of the world can -- the Church that speaks for Christ and wrote the New Testament!

Ave Cor Mariae, Jay (Likos)

Edited May 7, 2004 by Katholikos

[Crusader_4]

I am very mixed on this topic. I do believe in a sense that God will bestow gifts and special abilities on the faithful...whether they be whatever some perhaps spiritual. Although, I am not in a position to judge who has them i am very sketchy of services were ppl walk in and then come out healed where there leg had grown an extra inch or something.

[hopeful1]

apparently this prophetic worship thing is quite popular in nondenominational circles. My friend has a friend at another nondenominational church that does this, and some people in Intervarsity are sort of familiar with it and are intrested in getting more involved with it, and most of them go to ND churches. I take it the consensus on this thread is that it's unbiblical? anyone else care to comment, enlighten? Do any of our ND friends have any insight?

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='May 6 2004, 04:20 PM'] [b]TBN: Trinity Broadcasting Network[/b]? [/quote]
Is that what it stands for? I always called it The Blasphemy Network since they allow preachers on there who deny that the Holy Spirit is a person and part of the Trinity.

[NewReformation]

Prophetic Worship is a bit of a complicated subject. It really depends on who you talk to what they're going to say. Most likely, it's referring to one of two things.

1. Prophetic Worship can be on the part of the "Worship(music) leader." The Worship Leader may feel the Holy Spirit pressing him/her to play a particular song in order to touch a certain person or people. The Worship Leader may feel God telling him to play a certain song for an extra amount of time, or to open the altar for people to pray.

2. Prophetic Worship can involve prophets in the church going to people during the worship service and giving a word of personal prophecy. Or, it can involve a prophet or prophets giving a word of prophecy for the entire church.

Prophecy is not necassarily a prediction of future events. It also reveals what is hidden in the here and now. It denounces sin in the life of the congregation and demands holiness from the listeners of the prophecy.

I could go into much more detail in a seperate thread as to what prophecy is if y'all want. I've done some extensive research into it.

[hopeful1]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 6 2004, 07:29 PM'] I am very mixed on this topic. I do believe in a sense that God will bestow gifts and special abilities on the faithful...whether they be whatever some perhaps spiritual. Although, I am not in a position to judge who has them i am very sketchy of services were ppl walk in and then come out healed where there leg had grown an extra inch or something. [/quote]
yeah i know what you mean, especially what you said about spiritual gifts,and the gift of prophecy is a dangerous one to assume. I agree wholeheartedly that some may have them, but it's sometimes hard to tell which ones are authentic and from God, and which aren't. especially when they're in ND b/c they don't have anything to guide them, except as some would defend, the bible, but that's all based on their pastors (or their) interpretation.