Sspx: Preamble Signed

[qfnol31]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1335453289' post='2423615']


It is judgement because we or you guys are judging them to be schismatic. It is also gossip.
[/quote]Again, it's what many have expressed to me about the Church today. It isn't gossip because we're not talking about a specific person or specific persons,just like talking about the opinions of radical feminists is not gossip. I don't mean to say this schismatic attitude abounds in all, so there are definitely good and holy people in the society. But if true reconciliation is to occur, then those who do not recognize where the Church is today ought to reexamine their points of view.

I don't really want to convince you of where any of these people stand, but there is a true and present danger in following the society before it is fully regularized that people on this forum and Catholics in general have a right to know.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1335455103' post='2423622']


He got that right!


After reading Fr. Z's segment, it does look like, indeed, the SSPX would be officially in schism if they do not come to agree with the Vatican after all this.

I trust Pope Benny will work extra hard to preserve unity. May the Holy Spirit lead and direct him and the SSPX willfully obey him...
[/quote]I sincerely hope they do. The whole problem with rejecting Vatican II has been the same problem throughout Church history. In the case of our most recent council, we don't have the same definitions that the others gave us, but councils have almost always been about more than simply definitions. Councils give direction and rules for the Church that are to be followed. In history, when people refused to follow the Church’s direction, they found themselves separated from her. The Orthodox are in this position today.

Fortunately I think that Bishop Fellay has the humility to follow the direction of the Holy Father. I very much hope that those who trust Bishop Fellay will follow his example and not turn away from this opportunity.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1335460700' post='2423645']

Fortunately I think that Bishop Fellay has the humility to follow the direction of the Holy Father. I very much hope that those who trust Bishop Fellay will follow his example and not turn away from this opportunity.
[/quote]

I hope you are right. But the SSPX has denied the recent "positive" news accounts of relations with Rome:
[url="http://sspx.org/theological_commission/general_house_communique_4-18-2012.htm"]http://sspx.org/theological_commission/general_house_communique_4-18-2012.htm[/url]

And if Fellay's sermon in Winona of Feb.3, 2012 is any indication, there is still quite a journey to be made. He says again that it is Rome that must "convert", that is Rome that is outside the Church, and that Rome is Modernist! In short it's the same SSPX line that we have heard since 1974:
"On the contrary, it is our duty to continuously go there, knock at the door, and not beg that we may enter (because we are in) but beg that they may convert; that they may change and come back to what makes the Church."
And: " The key problem in our discussions with Rome was really the Magisterium, the teaching of the Church. Because they say, “we are the pope, we are the Holy See” – and we say, yes. And so they say, “we have the supreme power,” and we say, yes. They say, “we are the last instance in teaching and we are necessary” – Rome is necessary for us to have the Faith, and we say, yes. And then they say, “then, obey.” And we say, no. And so they say to us, you are protestant. You put your reason above the Magisterium of today. And we answer to them, you are Modernists"

[url="http://stas.org/publications/announcements-archive/552-extract-from-sermon-of-bishop-fellay-on-february-2nd-2012.html"]http://stas.org/publications/announcements-archive/552-extract-from-sermon-of-bishop-fellay-on-february-2nd-2012.html[/url]

S.

[Skinzo]

Sorry, mistake.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Skinzo

[Skinzo]

Ditto mistake

Edited April 26, 2012 by Skinzo

[Skinzo]

And again, mistake

Edited April 26, 2012 by Skinzo

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Skinzo' timestamp='1335477783' post='2423711']


I hope you are right. But the SSPX has denied the recent "positive" news accounts of relations with Rome:
[url="http://sspx.org/theological_commission/general_house_communique_4-18-2012.htm"]http://sspx.org/theological_commission/general_house_communique_4-18-2012.htm[/url]

And if Fellay's sermon in Winona of Feb.3, 2012 is any indication, there is still quite a journey to be made. He says again that it is Rome that must "convert", that is Rome that is outside the Church, and that Rome is Modernist! In short it's the same SSPX line that we have heard since 1974:
"On the contrary, it is our duty to continuously go there, knock at the door, and not beg that we may enter (because we are in) but beg that they may convert; that they may change and come back to what makes the Church."
And: " The key problem in our discussions with Rome was really the Magisterium, the teaching of the Church. Because they say, “we are the pope, we are the Holy See” – and we say, yes. And so they say, “we have the supreme power,” and we say, yes. They say, “we are the last instance in teaching and we are necessary” – Rome is necessary for us to have the Faith, and we say, yes. And then they say, “then, obey.” And we say, no. And so they say to us, you are protestant. You put your reason above the Magisterium of today. And we answer to them, you are Modernists"

[url="http://stas.org/publications/announcements-archive/552-extract-from-sermon-of-bishop-fellay-on-february-2nd-2012.html"]http://stas.org/publications/announcements-archive/552-extract-from-sermon-of-bishop-fellay-on-february-2nd-2012.html[/url]

S.
[/quote]That is a very unfortunate homily, but also extremely telling. The obedience to the Holy Father in Catholic teaching is very traditional.

I've always found the teachings of many of the SSPX to be strangely anti Vatican I. Oh well, we shall see what happens here.

[dominicansoul]

Fellay spoke with Catholic News Service!!! Fr. Z commented on the article in a blog post linked below...

He mentions that the SSPX is really working to unite with Rome, yet, at the same time, Fellay believes the SSPX will split apart, with those not wanting reconciliation and those that do. We have to keep praying!

but i think it sounds very promising!!!

[url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/05/ssxp-bp-fellay-speaks-with-catholic-news-service-no-really-about-the-present-outlook/"]SSXP Bp. Fellay speaks with Catholic News Service (no, really!) about the present outlook[/url]

[Ice_nine]

I hope they'll join us. I think we need groups like these in the Church today. In fact I think the Church will stop making so many concessions to the culture and revert to a more through orthodoxy.

In fact I think (and hope) that the Church is entering a new season.

Thinks and hopes thinks and hopes

[Skinzo]

We of course won't know anything until the Pope responds to Fellay. Looks like a real battle between Fellay and the other three bishops now. This could get really nasty and the disputes over SSPX property could go on for years. By all means pray.

S.

[dominicansoul]

i know we need to pray more for this, but in the span of a few days, I have come across more than a few articles that reflect much optimism over these dealings with the SSPX and Rome...


I certainly hope it comes to pass... there are more SSPX chapels around me than FSSP ones, and when Rome gives the okay, I would love to start attending Mass in the Extraordinary Form again...

[Aloysius]

yeah, I've been taking note of many optimistic developments, but I figured I'd wait to share anything on phatmass until it all actually goes through because my take on it remains just speculation, but I expect the Pope to force through a largely as-is canonical regularization that does not require any significant change from the SSPX, probably on an ad experimentum basis. but the Pope is opposed at the highest levels in this matter, so it is possible it could all fall apart any day.

[qfnol31]

I think the Holy Father has a lot of support at the highest levels as well, but that information isn't as juicy as infighting, so it never gets mentioned by the gossipy news.

That and those who are opposed to the union just like to run their mouths.

[Aloysius]

indeed, though I think enthusiastic supporters of these particular moves are few and far between in Rome. The Holy Father certainly has allies who will stand with him on this matter out of loyalty, but when it comes to actually ferverently desiring to make this regularization happen the Pope is largely alone on this matter, though certainly among the PCED there would also be feverent supporters of the move. if the SSPX regularizes, it is because the Pope himself made it happen, pushing through despite many who opposed it and many who were largely indifferent towards it--that is, the many cardinals who if they were on the chair of Peter would have been perfectly content not to go through all this trouble and just leave the situation where it is. that's just my take.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338308334' post='2437135']
I think the Holy Father has a lot of support at the highest levels as well...[/quote]

heaven?

[qfnol31]

I think you're exactly right in that... This has always been a special concern of his and it's pretty obvious that lots of people have objected to it.

Our Holy Father likes to be a Maverick sometimes.