tojo Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 I voted for eminem, because I've seen music like his and Kid Rock's do the most to erode the culture of my generation. As far as Madonna goes, you're probably right, but I was a little kid when she was popular, so I didn't notice her effect.
son_of_angels Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 Eminem is a symptom not a cause of moral decline. I quite enjoy some of his music, as it is mostly a satire of our present condition. I chose Christina, because she promotes an image, and a philosophy, of "I am beautiful" even without a Christian moral life, and a picture of women that is so centered on sensuality that it obscures the dignity of the female person. Madonna (shrugs), Madonna is Madonna. Who cares? I don't like the name though, another name for Mary stolen
Socrates Posted September 20, 2005 Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:16 PM']Eminem is a symptom not a cause of moral decline. I quite enjoy some of his music, as it is mostly a satire of our present condition. I chose Christina, because she promotes an image, and a philosophy, of "I am beautiful" even without a Christian moral life, and a picture of women that is so centered on sensuality that it obscures the dignity of the female person. Madonna (shrugs), Madonna is Madonna. Who cares? I don't like the name though, another name for Mary stolen [right][snapback]731774[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Madonna did the same thing as Christina though. And Madonna is the name her loving Italian-American Catholic parents gave her (Madonna Ciccone). She is the one who uses (or used) her name sacreligiously. This would be similar to an hispanic performer named "Jesus" using his name for shock effect.
Ora et Labora Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:16 PM']Eminem is a symptom not a cause of moral decline. I quite enjoy some of his music, as it is mostly a satire of our present condition. I chose Christina, because she promotes an image, and a philosophy, of "I am beautiful" even without a Christian moral life, and a picture of women that is so centered on sensuality that it obscures the dignity of the female person. Madonna (shrugs), Madonna is Madonna. Who cares? I don't like the name though, another name for Mary stolen [right][snapback]731774[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Weell...she had that thing going with brittney which was just freaky!! I think they should of put Cher should of been put on the list!!
argent_paladin Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 John Lennon With one single song: Imagine [quote]Imagine there's no heaven, It's easy if you try, No hell below us, Above us only sky, Imagine all the people living for today... Imagine there's no countries, It isnt hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for, No religion too, Imagine all the people living life in peace... Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, No need for greed or hunger, A brotherhood of man, Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say Im a dreamer, but Im not the only one, I hope some day you'll join us, And the world will live as one.[/quote] I can't imagine a more communist, atheist song. Morals aren't just eroded by skimpy clothes or bad words. Far more subtle and effective is a song that sounds beautiful and positive but filled with lies and heresy.
Didacus Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I thought of mentionning Lenon too, but I didn't want to get stoned to death. Nowe I can just hide behind you.... (I agree, he was a leading factor in propelling the liberation theology out of proportion within the last generation).
StatingTheObvious Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='desertwoman' date='Sep 20 2005, 10:25 AM']A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Fresh Prince and DJ Jazzy Jeff, RUN DMC, Special Ed (he's saved now and is on DJ Maj's album), Dialeted Peoples, Common, KRS One, Native Tongues, Queen Latifah, Gang Starr, MC Lyte, K-OS... Hip Hop's beginnings was not based on what is glorified today. In the beginning you had your rappers talking about partying (Just like Kiss's rock anthem). Slick Rick who loved to tell stories and thus is crowned the storyteller. Political rappers like Public Enemy Gangsta rappers like NWA Battle rappers (rappers who are concerned about lyrical mastery) KRS ONe Happy Rappers like Kid N Play, Fresh Prince The I'm so sexy rapper which is LL Cool J. It was and is a genre of the people who live in that culture just like any other genre. Me, growing up during that generation and I am a part of the culture, I saw a variety in the art form. There is no variety on MTV, BET (the new ministral show), or on the radio. One will have to go underground to get that good ole rap feeling that we did back in the day. There are a few who are played (like the forementioned) that push "positivity," but since sex and death sells.... that is what you're going to hear. [right][snapback]730920[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yeah, right. They're in the top 20 of sales. Tootsie Roll is a 'fun song' for kids. You can't polish a turd. You miss the OBVIOUS point of the sub-genre of 'gangsta' and 'battle' rap. KISS (Knights in Satan's Service) never was at the 'beginning' of rock, unlike your own admission: "In the beginning you had your rappers talking about partying ". The baggy pants hood/convict style came from rock or 'rap'?
desertwoman Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Sep 21 2005, 07:36 AM']Yeah, right. They're in the top 20 of sales. Tootsie Roll is a 'fun song' for kids. You can't polish a turd. You miss the OBVIOUS point of the sub-genre of 'gangsta' and 'battle' rap. KISS (Knights in Satan's Service) never was at the 'beginning' of rock, unlike your own admission: "In the beginning you had your rappers talking about partying ". The baggy pants hood/convict style came from rock or 'rap'? [right][snapback]732468[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Just like the motto of sex, drugs, and rock and roll eh? Or shock rock huh? Like the meaning of rock and roll ( slang for getting in the sack) eh? No wonder parents back then didn't want their children listening to rock and roll. To many parents, it was destroying the morale of their children! What about the rock groups that liked and glorified sex, drugs, and rock and roll? Are you missing the OBVIOUS within the rock culture and where the term rock and rolling came from? So in rock and roll, no one talked about partying? Are getting with a girl? Please.
StatingTheObvious Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='desertwoman' date='Sep 21 2005, 09:38 AM']Just like the motto of sex, drugs, and rock and roll eh? Or shock rock huh? Like the meaning of rock and roll ( slang for getting in the sack) eh? No wonder parents back then didn't want their children listening to rock and roll. To many parents, it was destroying the morale of their children! What about the rock groups that liked and glorified sex, drugs, and rock and roll? Are you missing the OBVIOUS within the rock culture and where the term rock and rolling came from? So in rock and roll, no one talked about partying? Are getting with a girl? Please. [right][snapback]732500[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I wasn't defending rock and roll, I am stating the obvious about hip-hop / rap. Rock grew to include the things you say, it didn't start that way like rap did and currently is.
desertwoman Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Sep 21 2005, 08:58 AM']I wasn't defending rock and roll, I am stating the obvious about hip-hop / rap. Rock grew to include the things you say, it didn't start that way like rap did and currently is. [right][snapback]732509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The rap of what you hear and see on tv and radio is perverse. I don't support it. I listen and support underground artists who push and speak positivity and shall. Hiphop didn't start of this way, it devolved into what it is. But sadly, it is all hiphop. Will I stop being a fan of hiphop because of the promoted hedonistic performers... no. I will support the hiphop heads who knew and remember how it was turn this horse back into a zebra. A genre with well promoted sub-genres, instead of the over saturated nonsense that is on the air waves.
StatingTheObvious Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='desertwoman' date='Sep 21 2005, 10:08 AM']The rap of what you hear and see on tv and radio is perverse. I don't support it. I listen and support underground artists who push and speak positivity and shall. Hiphop didn't start of this way, it devolved into what it is. But sadly, it is all hiphop. Will I stop being a fan of hiphop because of the promoted hedonistic performers... no. I will support the hiphop heads who knew and remember how it was turn this horse back into a zebra. A genre with well promoted sub-genres, instead of the over saturated nonsense that is on the air waves. [right][snapback]732522[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yo, yo, what-ever, lamey. 'sides, this thread's about dissin' singers. Rapper's can't sing.
dUSt Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:18 PM']Can you name any main stream rappers (in the top 20 of gross sales of rap) who do not promote negative attitudes towards society? [right][snapback]730350[/snapback][/right][/quote] No I can't. You just made my point by dodging my question. The "hip-hop" you see in the top 20 is not hip-hop at all, but rather glorified, violent pop music. You comment on hip-hop as if you know what hip-hop is, which you have just made clear that you know nothing about. Unfortunately, hip-hop has been drastically ripped from it's roots by what sells. Our mission here at phatmass is to use the art form to do the work of God.
son_of_angels Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Most hip-hop, rap, and indeed pop music in general is simply a satire at the pathetic condition of our world. The artform proceeds from the world's ugliness, as do many artforms. Nevertheless, I suppose there is also a sort of art in irony.... However, its when musicians are allowed to spout views in their music which do not proceed from the needs and problems of the culture that a problem happens. Either the problem is the world's problem (it stands as a contradiction to the nature of the world) or it's our problem (it stands as a contradiction to Christian nature). The most problematic things I see in music are when that music presents an idea as though it were positive, when that idea is actually negative or a fallacy. For instance, the notion that "everybody's beautiful." This is hogwash. Beauty exists relative to a true idea, so everybody, as long as we're not the same, cannot be "beautiful." They can exist, can have a reason to exist, can have some other cause for appreciation, and/or we can simply have to put up with them existing, but they do not have to be beautiful in order "to be." This kind of "everybody's this" or "everything is that" or "do what you want" is an infectiousness that leads to childishness about the idea itself. To say "everybody's beautiful" simply undermines the concept of "beautiful" to where it is no longer applicable as a quality.
Socrates Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Sep 21 2005, 12:53 AM']John Lennon With one single song: Imagine I can't imagine a more communist, atheist song. Morals aren't just eroded by skimpy clothes or bad words. Far more subtle and effective is a song that sounds beautiful and positive but filled with lies and heresy. [right][snapback]732373[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Agreed. That song is nothing more than the Communist Manifesto set to music! And Lennon has become something of a secular saint and people regard this song with reverence on the Left - having "peace" days when this song is to be played around the world.
Ora et Labora Posted September 22, 2005 Posted September 22, 2005 wow! you people know alot about singers! *impressed*
Ora et Labora Posted September 22, 2005 Posted September 22, 2005 i know this is debat table so ill go on openmic for this.......
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