A Long Response To "how Can You Not Have Sex"

[Safia]

I love how this Sister discusses it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMdH4tvvKaM&feature=related

[mantellata]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1340020732' post='2445753']
I think my only reservations are when a very young person, whose hormones are still raging, decides on a life of chastity, especially when he/she feels a revulsion for sex.[/quote]

If by life of chastity you mean decides for religious life - any religious community nowadays would pick up on this and turn the applicant away.

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1340020732' post='2445753']Sublimation and/or projection of that drive can be beneficial, but it can also be immensely damaging.[/quote]

[b]Repression[/b] can be damaging - sublimation not. Having happily lived a life of celibacy for nearly 32 years I believe I have some experience...... And - yes, chastity CAN be lived and IS a good thing for young people as well. That's different from being repulsed by sex. Happily the psychological community has in large part moved past Freud.

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1340020732' post='2445753']But I do think that many choose celibacy for the wrong reasons and so caution must be exercised.[/quote]

Celibacy is not a disease. Without some sort of statistical evidence that [u]many[/u] choose for the wrong reasons in this day and age I am reticent to accept such a claim. Statistics and studies [b]do[/b] however show that those living priestly and religious life consistently have the highest "employment happiness" ratings. [url="http://www.amazon.com/Why-Priests-Are-Happy-Psychological/dp/1594712743"]http://www.amazon.com/Why-Priests-Are-Happy-Psychological/dp/1594712743[/url]


[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1340020732' post='2445753'] This is another reason to have a good spiritual director, IMO. It is, as the Reverend Mother Emmanuel says in "The Nun's Story", "a life against nature".
[/quote]

This is one of the [b][u]grave[/u][/b] errors in the nun story. This is [b]non[/b] Catholic theology or practice but rather palegianism or jansenism (something convents of that age were infected with). According to Aquinas (and in my own experience) [b]grace perfects nature[/b]. It does not run contrary to it. Religious life is a blessed help to living a very fulfilled and happy life -- if it runs against nature it is a deformation of the life and not being lived out properly -- also a likely indication that it is not the individual's vocation.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Safia' timestamp='1340069058' post='2446081']
I love how this Sister discusses it:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMdH4tvvKaM&feature=related[/media]
[/quote]

I cannot see the video.

I would love to watch it, though. Do you have a link? Thanks!

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='savvy' timestamp='1340061720' post='2446039']
I think you meant chastity, i.e. what is proper to one's state in life. Celibacy is only required in consecrated life.
[/quote]

I have something of a query re the above, but rather than hijack this thread I am starting a thread in "Catholic Q and A - Ask a scholar" here [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/121871-question-about-celibacy/"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/121871-question-about-celibacy/[/url]

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='savvy' timestamp='1340061720' post='2446039']
I think you meant chastity, i.e. what is proper to one's state in life. Celibacy is only required in consecrated life.
[/quote]
Tee hee. Right you are!

[BarbTherese]

[u]Pope Paul V1 - Sacerdotalis Caelibatus (On the celibacy of the priest)[/u]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html"]http://www.vatican.v...dotalis_en.html[/url]


[quote]
[center][i]Celibacy Not Against Nature[/i][/center]
53. Considering what contemporary scholarly investigation has ascertained,[u][b] it is not right to continue repeating (l01) that celibacy is against nature because it runs counter to lawful physical, psychic and affective needs, or to claim that a completely mature human personality demands fulfillment of these needs. Man[/b][/u], created to God's image and likeness, (102) is not just flesh and blood; the sexual instinct is not all that he has; man has also, and pre-eminently, understanding, choice, freedom, and thanks to these powers he is, and must remain, the chief work of creation; they give him mastery over his physical, mental and emotional appetites.

54. [b]The true, profound reason for dedicated celibacy is, as We have said, the choice of a [u]closer and more complete relationship with the mystery of Christ and the Church for the good of all mankind[/u]: in this choice there is no doubt that those highest human values are able to find their fullest expression. [/b]


[b]13..............." .................[/b]Nor can we overlook the immense ranks of men and women in religious life,[b] [u]of laity[/u] and of young people too[/b], [b]united in the faithful [b]observance [/b]of perfect chastity[/b]. They live in chastity, not out of disdain for the gift of life, but because of a greater love for that new life which springs from the Paschal mystery. They live this life of courageous self-denial and spiritual joyfulness with exemplary fidelity and also with relative facility. This magnificent phenomenon bears testimony to an exceptional facet of the kingdom of God living in the midst of modern society, to which it renders humble and beneficial service as the "light of the world" and the "salt of the earth." (7) We cannot withhold the expression of Our admiration; the spirit of Christ is certainly breathing here."
[/quote]

[Safia]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1340083117' post='2446180']
I cannot see the video.

I would love to watch it, though. Do you have a link? Thanks!
[/quote]

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WMdH4tvvKaM>

[Safia]

Also, this is very beautiful!

[url="http://singdancepraiselove.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/never-been-kissed-2/"]http://singdancepraiselove.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/never-been-kissed-2/[/url]

[AveMariaPurissima]

[quote name='savvy' timestamp='1340061720' post='2446039']
I think you meant chastity, i.e. what is proper to one's state in life. Celibacy is only required in consecrated life.
[/quote]
Dumb question...what's the difference between chastity and celibacy?

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Safia' timestamp='1340130938' post='2446366']
Also, this is very beautiful!

[url="http://singdancepraiselove.wordpress.com/2012/06/15/never-been-kissed-2/"]http://singdanceprai...-been-kissed-2/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for the link!! I love what Sister had to say in the video, and that article is amesome! I especially like this from the comments below:

"Needing to have been in a relationship to know ‘what you’re missing’ to become a sister isn’t valid anyway, because I’m pretty sure us married women didn’t need to become sisters to know what we were missing on that end, ya know? Beautiful post!"

Edited June 20, 2012 by emmaberry

[savvy]

[quote]Dumb question...what's the difference between chastity and celibacy? [/quote]

It's not a dumb question. I never knew this until recently either. Chastity for married people is being faithful to each other, so this proper to their way of life. For singles it would be refraining from pre-marital sex i.e. proper to their state in life. For those consecrated, a vow of celibacy is a public vow usually taken. One is seen as a given rule, the other is a taken one.

Edited June 20, 2012 by savvy

[Ice_nine]

I could only get about halfway thru. So tired! But it was mostly rad.

Something extremely tragic I think, is our modern conflation of intimacy and sexuality. They are of course not mutually exclusive, but the former does not necessitate the latter. This conditioning really led me to mistrust my own warm feelings to people, always doubting their purity because the fruedian idea that sexual and/or violent impulses subconsciously manifest themselves as these feelings of love etc.

Led to a lot of confusion about my sexual identity and such. But through the grace of God, I realized I did not have to look through the lenses of this modernist worldview and have become really comfortable with the idea of celibacy and marriage and how the sexual drive can be adapted.

Even among well-meaning Christians folks I fear that we have this mistrust inculcated in us that says non-sexual love is somehow subpar to sexual love. beaver dam shame really. Because you can live without sex, but you can't live without intimacy. I think we really need to re appropriate the idea of love to a Christian vision rather than allowing the faulty systems of the world to dilute it.

Sorry if tghat makes no sense. I'm dog-tired.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1340249896' post='2446973']Because you can live without sex, but you can't live without intimacy.[/quote]

Loved this--a good reason why so many people go when you say "I am discerning" is because they think marriage is the only path to intimacy. Our world has lost the notion that one can be exclusively and completely intimate unto God alone, and He will satisfy those desires in the soul. This is why so many think those in priesthood/religious life are 'unhealthy/unstable/etc'...they think they have foregone ALL intimacy and love of their free will. Not so! But they don't want to realize that, so they keep doing this: lol.

Hopefully things will change.

[Ice_nine]

Not only that, but I think that you can be intimate with others without sexual connotations. Of course the term has been hijacked so if you ever said "I have an intimate relationship with so and so" the automatic interpretation is that there must be sex involved. It really bothers me.

It's so so silly.