Question

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Hey all,

I have a friend who asked me a question, and as VS is such an excellent place to ask discernment-related questions, I figured I'd bring it here.

Will penitential, contemplative communities (such as the Cristo Rey Carmel) accept women who have been sexually assaulted?

Answers are very much appreciated, and I am forever indebted to you people.
Blessings,
FCC

[beatitude]

Of course! Whyever would they not?

[Lisa]

Sent you a PM, fcc.

[emmaberry]

Every community I have looked into will-mostly traditional cloistered complatives.

May God bless your discerning friend!

EDIT: Realized you didn't say whether your friend was discerning. Still, God bless her!

Edited June 19, 2012 by emmaberry

[mantellata]

I think the only issue at hand is that she is not seeking a religious community [i]because[/i] she was sexually assaulted - and is suffering from post traumatic stress in regards to men and relationships. This is not to say that she couldn't join a community in the future but religious life (with all its silence) is likely to make the problem worse and not better. What she likely needs (if she doesn't already) is a really good and caring therapist - and begin healing. Then she can discern religious life.

Also perhaps good for your friend to know - someone cannot [i]take[/i] your virginity - which is why someone can become a consecrated virgin even after having been assaulted. She is [u]not[/u] "damaged goods" but a precious daughter in the eyes of the Lord who is sharing in a [u]very close way[/u] His own crucifixion - particularily His humiliation in being publically stripped and jeered at. (We modestly cover Our Lord but he was likely stripped naked). He intimately knows her suffering - went there before her and still sees her as a pure and beautiful daughter of His Father in Heaven.

Edited June 19, 2012 by mantellata

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='mantellata' timestamp='1340106360' post='2446225']
Also perhaps good for your friend to know - someone cannot [i]take[/i] your virginity - which is why someone can become a consecrated virgin even after having been assaulted. She is [u]not[/u] "damaged goods" but a precious daughter in the eyes of the Lord who is sharing in a [u]very close way[/u] His own crucifixion - particularily His humiliation in being publically stripped and jeered at. (We modestly cover Our Lord but he was likely stripped naked). He intimately knows her suffering - went there before her and still sees her as a pure and beautiful daughter of His Father in Heaven.
[/quote]
Amen to this! Thank you so much.

[Gemma]

Case-by-case basis and every community is different. She would be advised to make sure she has recovered her memories or the novitiate will become unbearable for her. If she chose to become a Consecrated Virgin, she would still be eligible, because she was not at fault.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

What exactly is a consecrated virgin?

[Carmelshrimp]

If any community rejected her because she had been assaulted - and therefore wasn't a technical virgin - as opposed to suggesting that she needed time to work through what had happened to her before she made a gift of herself to God, for her own sake, they would not be a community worth joining. The church isn't about technicalities which are beyond our control but about demonstrating God's boundless love for his creation. Of course she would be welcome by any community worthy of the name and by her divine Spouse, who would receive her as an absolutely pure bride.

[Lilllabettt]

Most of the virgin martyrs - Lucy, Cecilia, etc. were probably raped before their deaths, because executing a virgin was frowned upon. But they died virgins in the eyes of the Lord, and they are recognized as such by the Church even today.

[Strictlyinkblot]

No community I know of would refuse a woman because she had suffered an assault, provided of course that she's not looking to enter because she doesn't want to deal with what happened to her. In the silence things have a habit of bubbling up from the subconscious. As already said your virginity can't be taken from you, not in the real sense.

I've read of several stories of nuns who had been sexually abused as children. At Notting Hill Carmel one of the nuns has written a book 'The Silent Struggle' by Sr. Marie of the Cross about a nun who had been abused and suffered from anorexia. Be careful though, its a very painful story and may bring issues up for your friend. It may reassure her to know that other nuns have been through what she'd been through and entered.

I suggest that if she decides to discern that she be honest about what happened to her, not in any detail because there's no need. I'll pray for your friend and hope that she has the help she needs.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Thanks, guys, this has been very helpful.

[Gemma]

Speaking from my and another's personal experience, we were advised to recover memories before making application. Trying to enter religious life after such an incident can indeed be escape.

Blessings,
Gemma

[mantellata]

recover memories?...

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='Gemma' timestamp='1340190097' post='2446641']
Speaking from my and another's personal experience, we were advised to recover memories before making application. Trying to enter religious life after such an incident can indeed be escape.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

Be careful talking about "recovered memories". Psychologically speaking, it's very dangerous and scientifically unsound. It's bad psychology and bad clinical practice. Therapists who encourage it should have their accreditation revoked. Too many people have had their lives and families destroyed by false "recovered memories".

[Antigonos]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1340192045' post='2446649']


Be careful talking about "recovered memories". Psychologically speaking, it's very dangerous and scientifically unsound. It's bad psychology and bad clinical practice. Therapists who encourage it should have their accreditation revoked. Too many people have had their lives and families destroyed by false "recovered memories".
[/quote]

I think what was meant was that the victim of assault needs to have worked through the trauma, come to terms with it, and has closure. The last thing any community needs is to have a member suffering from PTSD. IIRC, Didn't Starets make reference to having occasional attacks that contributed to his transfer to another community?

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1340206093' post='2446709']
I think what was meant was that the victim of assault needs to have worked through the trauma, come to terms with it, and has closure. The last thing any community needs is to have a member suffering from PTSD. IIRC, Didn't Starets make reference to having occasional attacks that contributed to his transfer to another community?
[/quote]

If that is what was meant then I completely agree. The wording used however indicated otherwise and I stand by what I said, it is dangerous and foolish to throw terms like that around.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

From my experience of discerning (but with more traditional and well known, active communities) this can present a problem. Some orders will not accept someone that comes from a history of abuse or experienced a severe trauma. Not due to the virginity issue, but due to the issues of trust it creates and thus inhibits the vow of obedience.

[beatitude]

People react to traumatic experiences like sexual assault in different ways. They don't necessarily create any problems with trust, and if they do, those problems are not irresolvable.

I think that there is now something of a 'therapy culture' that has been built up around rape, not helped by Hollywood and popular fiction, which has the brave victim undergoing mental horrors and slowly piecing together her experiences with the aid of a god-like therapist in order to bring the perpetrator to justice. Or spending years of her life torn and broken, until a gifted rescuer comes along offering hope. There are dramatic flashbacks, there are broken relationships, there is heartbreak - all the ingredients for a sob story with a dramatic ending.

I say this as both someone who has experienced sexual assault and a mental health practitioner. Trauma-related mental health problems often don't look at all how society expects them to look, and they are treatable. What frustrates me is the way in which people who have been assaulted often feel obliged to start playing the part of the 'stereotypical victim' - they're told that they should have repressed memories, so they struggle valiantly to recall them; they're told that they should have trust difficulties, so they start looking warily at their friends; they're told that they need years and years of therapy, so they dutifully go. But this is not necessarily true. I once met a Holocaust survivor who had been in Auschwitz, and who emerged quite unscathed mentally - but he was basically press-ganged into counselling that he didn't need by well-meaning friends who assumed that he [i]must[/i] be traumatised by what he'd lived through. Fair enough, a lot of Holocaust survivors were. But he wasn't.

There is no one-size-fits-all approach. FCC, your friend needs to be sensible and gentle with herself and self-aware - but then so do all discerners. She may have some additional difficulties in religious life because of her past experiences, but then again she might not. No community should be making judgments at the outset about how she is likely to react. The important thing is that she is honest with herself about what her problems are and how best to meet them.

Edited June 20, 2012 by beatitude

[Strictlyinkblot]

Agreed. While counselling and therapy are useful tools, they're just that, tools. Each of us is unique and unique in how we respond to situations, both good and bad.