Does Anyone Know Anything About This Carmel?

[the171]

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/88/880526bc_mother_of_god.jpeg[/img]
CARMEL

Edited June 23, 2012 by the171

[emmaberry]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1340395979' post='2447570']
I don't see anything wrong in their replies at all.
[/quote]

Don't become a VD! Lol
Just kidding, but I do find their last response to be not only abrupt, but abrasive as well. The opening and closing lines of their letter seem to make no effort to be gentle or kind--at least none that come across to the reader.

You are right about charity though. Who knows what the VD may have been going through in the context of her response. Maybe the community had a bad experience with someone who entered and asked a lot of similar questions. Maybe someone close to her passed away. Maybe they were short on stamps and didn't see the correspondance going anywhere--and maybe they genuinely discerned she wasn't called to their convent (although, IMO, they certainly could have been nicer about it.)

I am only a year into discernment so I could be naive about VDs and the correspondence between them and discerners.





[quote name='the171' timestamp='1340423998' post='2447756']
[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/88/880526bc_mother_of_god.jpeg[/img]
CARMEL
[/quote]
I looked at it. Blinked. Then it dawned on me and I ROFL! Too funny!


[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1340395490' post='2447567']
As hard as it must have been for them to end your correspondence that way, it is, as you say, a blessing in disguise. Sometimes I wish God would do this to me--it's such a clear indicator of His Voice directing you. I almost wish more VD's were less sweet and more abrupt. When they are all so saint like it is hard to say, okay, not this community. Does that make sense?

Prayers for your discernment Chiara Francesco and Totally Franciscan!
[/quote]

I'm sorry for the error-I meant as hard as it must have been for YOU for them to end your correspondance-not hard on them. Sorry if that was confusing to you Chiara Francesco.

Edited June 23, 2012 by emmaberry

[AnneLine]

I am familiar with that Carmel, although it has been many years since I visited them.

I don't know what their horarium is like now, but it was a pretty normal Carmelite horarium, but the community tended to be very modern in many ways. That flexibility sometimes meant that a candidate could be successful there who had not been successful in other communities. (I know one woman who was able to follow her vocation there after considerable family drama when she had attempted to enter other communities.... and they worked with her very creatively to make her vocation possible.)

They tended to live a very simple and poor lifestyle, and I know they did a lot of their own design & craftsmenshp in building their Carmel -- painted their own icons and made their own grilles out of heavy wire fencing, for example. They didn't have externs, but one of the sisters would sometimes come out of the cloister, do the work of the extern, and then go back in, but didn't interact with the lay people. (This was many years ago, and things could have changed.)

The community originally came out of the Carmel-by-the-Sea community (which is still pretty traditional); this community has always had a reputation for being a little 'different' (and much more 'modern' than the Cristo Rey community in San Francisco or the Santa Clara Community, both of which are within about 25 miles of it), although they have retained the full habit. When I was still visiting them they were still very much interested in making Russian foundation. (It was attempted in Moscow it but did not prosper), and they were able make a successful foundation in Finland. Many of the sisters whose pictures appear on that website eventually became part of the European foundations... and a number have passed away; those pictures are easily well over 20 years old.

If someone was looking for a very traditional Carmel, this would not be the right place. It [i]might[/i] be the right place for someone who is looking for a more middle-of-the-road community.

I can't understand the abrupt end of correspondence... except that sometimes nuns are only too human. Mother D was always very gracious to me, but I have heard of others who had some less-than-satisfactory experiences with them.

Just not sure, and way too long ago to know what is going on at present.... I think I would just trust the Holy Spirit and move on....

[AnneLine]

One clarification to my last comment...

On their website:

[url="http://motherofgodcarmel.org/"][color="#888888"]http://motherofgodcarmel.org/[/color][/url]

The photos under 'community life' are about 20 or more years old.

The photos under 'vocations' are more current -- and I believe that may be the entire community but I am not sure.

Edited June 23, 2012 by AnneLine

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1340435734' post='2447823']
Don't become a VD! Lol
Just kidding, but I do find their last response to be not only abrupt, but abrasive as well. The opening and closing lines of their letter seem to make no effort to be gentle or kind--at least none that come across to the reader.

You are right about charity though. Who knows what the VD may have been going through in the context of her response. Maybe the community had a bad experience with someone who entered and asked a lot of similar questions. Maybe someone close to her passed away. Maybe they were short on stamps and didn't see the correspondance going anywhere--and maybe they genuinely discerned she wasn't called to their convent (although, IMO, they certainly could have been nicer about it.)

I am only a year into discernment so I could be naive about VDs and the correspondence between them and discerners.
[/quote]

Actually I was a VD very briefly for a new community

And I think you missed the point. I didn't see anything wrong with their reply because I don't know all the circumstances behind it. Since CF didn't post every single email, none of us know the full story behind their interaction and why they felt they had reached the stage where that response seemed appropriate to them at the time. True, it may have been just the end of a long, hard day and someone lost patience, or it could have been a real decision made after thoughtful consideration of all the emails that had been exchanged - we are only getting one side of the story, that is why I say to use charity in judging others.

I have had some pretty abrupt replies from communities because of my age, but then heard that these were wonderful communities with loving nuns in them. I don't judge the whole community by their reply to me. It may be God's way of shutting the door. I hand delivered two letters to a Carmel in NJ and never got a reply despite living just down the road from them. Sometimes being ignored is harder than getting a definite reply. The original poster asked about this Carmel, not about one person's abrupt email from them. That's my point. And I do think that most criticisms should be handled via PM or email and not on this phorum, simply because it is uncharitable. I have been guilty of this myself and I see it now, praise can be declared but perhaps criticism should be a private thing because it can be simply a case of wounded pride (speaking for myself here).



[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1340441501' post='2447834']
I am familiar with that Carmel, although it has been many years since I visited them.

I don't know what their horarium is like now, but it was a pretty normal Carmelite horarium, but the community tended to be very modern in many ways. That flexibility sometimes meant that a candidate could be successful there who had not been successful in other communities. (I know one woman who was able to follow her vocation there after considerable family drama when she had attempted to enter other communities.... and they worked with her very creatively to make her vocation possible.)

They tended to live a very simple and poor lifestyle, and I know they did a lot of their own design & craftsmenshp in building their Carmel -- painted their own icons and made their own grilles out of heavy wire fencing, for example. They didn't have externs, but one of the sisters would sometimes come out of the cloister, do the work of the extern, and then go back in, but didn't interact with the lay people. (This was many years ago, and things could have changed.)

The community originally came out of the Carmel-by-the-Sea community (which is still pretty traditional); this community has always had a reputation for being a little 'different' (and much more 'modern' than the Cristo Rey community in San Francisco or the Santa Clara Community, both of which are within about 25 miles of it), although they have retained the full habit. When I was still visiting them they were still very much interested in making Russian foundation. (It was attempted in Moscow it but did not prosper), and they were able make a successful foundation in Finland. Many of the sisters whose pictures appear on that website eventually became part of the European foundations... and a number have passed away; those pictures are easily well over 20 years old.

If someone was looking for a very traditional Carmel, this would not be the right place. It [i]might[/i] be the right place for someone who is looking for a more middle-of-the-road community.

I can't understand the abrupt end of correspondence... except that sometimes nuns are only too human. Mother D was always very gracious to me, but I have heard of others who had some less-than-satisfactory experiences with them.

Just not sure, and way too long ago to know what is going on at present.... I think I would just trust the Holy Spirit and move on....
[/quote]

Well balancde, informative and full of common sense - as usual from you AL!

Edited June 23, 2012 by nunsense