Do You Believe In The "one True Love" Thing?

[Annie12]

I was just thinking about this. If it does exist then that means Jesus is a woman religious' true love but also there would be one person God had set apart for a given person called to married life. I guess I'm talking about Gods plan. But then I was trying to grapple with how free will fits into this equation. If someone decides to get married not knowing their true vocation is to Religious life, does this mean God hadn't planed on them doing that? Because he may bless a couple with children which he[i] has[/i] had in mind since the beginning of time. So, How does free will fit into God's plan and how does it effect a person's relationship with God? I hope I'm not being too vague here.

[Luigi]

Interesting question. I have married friends who disagree on this issue - the wife believes in "the one true love thing," the husband doesn't. I agree with him. He says, "If my dad had been in the military or something and stationed in Germany or Japan or some place, when I got to marrying age, I would have found a wife - it wouldn't have been you, but I would have stayed married to her for life." (The wife does not like to know this.)

Which means that love (in a marriage or religious life) is an ongoing choice, a constantly-renewed decision, a daily commitment. And really, when you think about it, what would love (in a marriage or religious life) be worth if we [b]didn't[/b] actively [i]choose[/i] it, if we just somehow stumbled on it? Only the lucky ones find love (like a coin in the road)? No - everybody's capable of it.

I don't think God's "plan" for each of us is all that detailed - it's not like a pre-written biography that we have to figure out and live - it's not a fate or a destiny that we have to accept like a strait-jacket. It's a plan that we develop as we go along, making choices every step of the way, hopefully inviting God into those decision-making processes, thereby sanctifying the choices.

But once we've decided, then we co-operate with God - and He co-operates with us - to make the best of the situation. My mom has three sisters who are religious; I think, in looking at us kids, they sometimes wished they had married. On the other hand, after the sixth or seventh (or eighth, or ninth, or tenth, or eleventh) kid, I think my mom wished she had joined the convent. But they've all stuck with their vows (and were happy to do so, in the long run).

We do have free will - God gave it to us, and He wants us to exercise it. So we're not just confused wind-up dolls that are mechanically marching our way down the road of life, trying to figure out what God wants us to be. God will let us marry, or join religious life. In either state, once we commit to it, He'll work with us - and he expects us to work with Him.

[emmaberry]

A little vague, but hopefully I understood your concern.

A vocation is a gift of self made of one's own free will. A vocation is offered from God, never forced, so someone can always, as you said, get married and have a family even if their true vocation might be to religious life.

Nothing is ever out of God's plan or surprises him. When He created Judas, He knew Judas would betray His Son..this was not a surprise to Jesus or the Father. Romans 8:28 "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [i]His[/i] purpose."

Then again, I know that when I was called to religious life, it was an intense experience. For most discerners, it sounds very similar (understandably so) to falling in love. What I am currently trying to work through is whether someone who, as you stated, gets married without discerning consecrated life was ever really called to the religious life. God's Voice is still and small......but it is still God's Voice! Only eternity will tell how many vocations were left unanswered-this is a quote but I forget the reference.

This reminds me of the 'imprinting' topic in Twilight (am I even allowed to mention those books on PM? ) Somebody says that when the guy imprints on the girl, it is nearly impossible for her to resist the generous love that is being directed her way. I don't know how anyone could turn away from the vocation God gives them-He is generous and the vocation He has given us is the key to our joy!

Although, in your example, the person did not necessarily turn away from their vocation..they just never properly discerned. I could definitely see this being prevalent among people.....not properly discerning and therefore not giving God the oppurtunity to be generous with you. If you ever ask, seek, or knock, then finding answers and an open door would be quite difficult.

I hope I did not confuse you further. If it helps, I have these questions a lot too.!

And of course we know that God is never angry with someone turning down a vocation He so generously offers. Hurt, maybe, but never angry. It is truly freely given. We don't need to worry that "well if I don't become a nun then God will make my life miserable and forsake me." Jesus constantly gave out love and healing, even though very few thanked Him and reciprocated that love back to Him. Yet, He did not stop healing and loving because of these so-called rejections-He kept loving, yet always hoping that the healed one would come back to thank Him.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1343017982' post='2457985']
Interesting question. I have married friends who disagree on this issue - the wife believes in "the one true love thing," the husband doesn't. I agree with him. He says, "If my dad had been in the military or something and stationed in Germany or Japan or some place, when I got to marrying age, I would have found a wife - it wouldn't have been you, but I would have stayed married to her for life." (The wife does not like to know this.)
[/quote]

I am sure she doesn't!!!

I would have edited and put this in my OP, but PM would not let me. Sorry for the double post.

[mantellata]

God's grace works through all. I do believe that God has a plan and sometimes He really does make the right person "pop into your life" and you hopefully assent to grace etc... but on the flip side I 100% agree with Luigi.

Catholics are fond of both / and.

You would think that the wife would prefer her husbands view... I mean.... she is [u]actively[/u] chosen and beloved. And he's never going to go around during a mid-life crisis thinking that he missed his "one true love"..... his "one chosen love" is at home and he wouldn't give himself to anyone but her!

[cmaD2006]

Without reading the whole thing ...

In a way, Jesus should be *EVERYONE'S* one true love regardless of state of life. Out of that love we're called to love others -- the people we serve, the sisters we may live with, the husband or wife who we are bound to by marriage, the children that we have, the coworkers that we spend 8 hrs (or more) per day with, the stranger on the street who we say hi to, etc.

I do think that it is possible to be madly in love with the Lord yet be married, and of course it is also possible (and probably a necesity) to be madly in love with the Lord and decide to live chastely and in celibacy (be it in religious life or another calling).

[Annie12]

I understand what everyone is saying here but this boggles my brain... o_O

[PhuturePriest]

One interesting point is that all of these romantic novels and movies today want you to believe that you were made to marry one specific person, your soul mate, as they are called. But really, you can literally marry anyone and have a successful marriage. As Luigi pointed out, I could move to Japan and find a Japanese wife (Which I actually wanted to do once because I love the Japanese. ), or I could go to Germany, or I could stay here in America. I don't really believe in the soul mate thing, nor do I believe if you do not have your soul mate your marriage will fail. Love and commitment are necessary for a successful marriage, not being a persons' soul mate. Now we get into the problem with "what is love?". Love is not a romantic feeling we have, it is a choice. You choose to love someone. Divorces are so high today because people think they will have that romantic feeling they feel on their honeymoon for forever, and when they no longer do they have "fallen out of love". This is not so. This is merely moving into the next stage of the relationship. A man may not find his wife appealing or feel that deep romantic feeling when she is eight months pregnant and has woken him up at five in the morning to get her turkey from the store, but he chooses to love her by doing this for her.

[Carmelshrimp]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1343018372' post='2457988']
A little vague, but hopefully I understood your concern.

A vocation is a gift of self made of one's own free will. A vocation is offered from God, never forced, so someone can always, as you said, get married and have a family even if their true vocation might be to religious life.

Nothing is ever out of God's plan or surprises him. When He created Judas, He knew Judas would betray His Son..this was not a surprise to Jesus or the Father. Romans 8:28 "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [i]His[/i] purpose."

Then again, I know that when I was called to religious life, it was an intense experience. For most discerners, it sounds very similar (understandably so) to falling in love. What I am currently trying to work through is whether someone who, as you stated, gets married without discerning consecrated life was ever really called to the religious life. God's Voice is still and small......but it is still God's Voice! Only eternity will tell how many vocations were left unanswered-this is a quote but I forget the reference.

This reminds me of the 'imprinting' topic in Twilight (am I even allowed to mention those books on PM? ) Somebody says that when the guy imprints on the girl, it is nearly impossible for her to resist the generous love that is being directed her way. I don't know how anyone could turn away from the vocation God gives them-He is generous and the vocation He has given us is the key to our joy!

Although, in your example, the person did not necessarily turn away from their vocation..they just never properly discerned. I could definitely see this being prevalent among people.....not properly discerning and therefore not giving God the oppurtunity to be generous with you. If you ever ask, seek, or knock, then finding answers and an open door would be quite difficult.

I hope I did not confuse you further. If it helps, I have these questions a lot too.!

And of course we know that God is never angry with someone turning down a vocation He so generously offers. Hurt, maybe, but never angry. It is truly freely given. We don't need to worry that "well if I don't become a nun then God will make my life miserable and forsake me." Jesus constantly gave out love and healing, even though very few thanked Him and reciprocated that love back to Him. Yet, He did not stop healing and loving because of these so-called rejections-He kept loving, yet always hoping that the healed one would come back to thank Him.
[/quote]

But doesn't the thought of hurting him break our hearts? Not easy is it?

[ACS67]

In a word Annie, "no." That's a fairytale and it is Hollywood nonsense.

I have noticed something though. Far too often human emotions are equated to God. One can never say God is "hurt" because God is impassible, which means He does not possess human emotions. That is a teaching of Catholic Church. The same can be said about the religious life and the "call." It is not a human emotion of "love" as we would categorize it. It supersedes that and therefore is on an entirely different plane. I've been in "love" with a man. It tended to be full of "feelings/emotions" and just very "human", very temporal and tangible. My love for God is nothing like that...at all. Never has been, even when I was the age of many of you (teens to early 20s, I'm now in my 40s).

I am sure I am not articulating this well at all and that is quite simply because that would involve human words/emotions and they simply do not exist (not that I have found) to describe the "love" between myself and God and I sure this is the case with countless others.

[Tally Marx]

My SD has always told me that God does not micro-manage our lives.

Our one goal in life is for us to get to heaven. That is what we were created for. [b]That[/b] is God's plan.
There are multiple ways to acheive this goal. Some ways may be more suited to you, and be a better fit for you, as the person God made you. For instance, if it is your temperament and personality to be talkative and enjoy the company of people, it might not be the best idea for you to be a hermit. But, if you do become a hermit anyway, and make it to heaven...can there really be anything wrong with that?

In the end, the goal is the same. There isn't any pre-ordained path for you to acheive it, and God doesn't really care how you acheive it, as long as you do.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Tally Marx

[Antigonos]

I think it's worth remembering that the concept of marrying for romantic love is really quite a recent thing. Even today, in some of the Orthodox Jewish world, and definitely in the ultra-Orthodox, the marriages are in the main arranged by the parents [the children, of course, can decline their parents' choice, but the kind of upbringing they have makes it somewhat unusual].

That seems rather callous at first glance, but I've discussed this with numerous ultra-Orthodox women while sitting with them in the early stages of labor, and here's some of the comments: "I believe that my parents, who've known me since birth and who want only the best for me, are best placed to find for me the best person to spend my life with", and, "The most important thing is to marry someone who will complement me; who will be my friend -- love develops after the first child", and, perhaps the most telling of all, "The most important thing is that you and your husband share the same outlook on raising the next generation of Torah-observant Jews". It is noticeable how content these women are, and how supportive their husbands are of them.

Let's translate this for sincere and devout Catholics: it is at least as important to raise children who might, in the fullness of time, have a religious vocation, as to have a calling to the religious life yourself. That's why marriage is referred to as a vocation. Good marriages don't just happen; they require work and committment, often considerable sacrifice. Raising children is no picnic, and for the continuance of the Church, the next generation [each "next" generation] needs a solid foundation. This is true in every religion. Attraction on a hormonal level won't hack it over decades; that's why the divorce rates are so high, when folks put "romantic love" or physical attraction at the top of their priorities.

And, of course, sometimes parents [i]do[/i] know best..

[emmaberry]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1343071557' post='2458172']
In a word Annie, "no." That's a fairytale and it is Hollywood nonsense.

I have noticed something though. Far too often human emotions are equated to God. One can never say God is "hurt" because God is impassible, which means He does not possess human emotions. That is a teaching of Catholic Church. The same can be said about the religious life and the "call." It is not a human emotion of "love" as we would categorize it. It supersedes that and therefore is on an entirely different plane. I've been in "love" with a man. It tended to be full of "feelings/emotions" and just very "human", very temporal and tangible. My love for God is nothing like that...at all. Never has been, even when I was the age of many of you (teens to early 20s, I'm now in my 40s).

I am sure I am not articulating this well at all and that is quite simply because that would involve human words/emotions and they simply do not exist (not that I have found) to describe the "love" between myself and God and I sure this is the case with countless others.
[/quote]

I don't doubt you when you say that is the Catholic Church's stance...but I thought my position in the last post was the Church's stance as well. Can I ask your source? We must be looking at two separate sources and interpreting them differently. Of course, the Catechism would be the best source for Church teachings.

I was referring to Jesus' tears at Lazarus' death, his weeping in the Bible, and His pain at those who never came back to thank Him. While I understand your position, you cannot deny that the Bible (and the Church) clearly state that Jesus, who was God, felt human emotion when He became fully man.

ACS67-Are you a religious? I have heard that many of the problems with the LCWR leadership have occurred because those Sisters who are leading the group have forgot their bridal relationship to Christ. Try telling St Therese that the soul's relationship with God is not about love! Of course, it is not about [i]emotion[/i], but I don't think I ever used that word in my post. Of course, I mentioned joy, but anyone who says that joy is not present in a true relationship with God doesn't know what they are talking about.

I am afraid some here are equating joy with happiness....and that is not a correct meaning of the word joy.

[Indwelling Trinity]

I for one do not believe in:One True Love." in the common sense. I do believe in loving all Things in God, for God is at the core of all being. In the Holy Mass it says as part of the cannon" touched by your hand this world is holy." God is there even in places he seems most absent, so I am forever and hopefully eternally surrounded by My One true love. So wherever I am along the road religious or not he is ever present to me even if i cannot see it and therein lies my faith. Therein lies my love. My Emmanuel, God with us.

[Indwelling Trinity]

I for one do not believe in "One True Love." in the common sense. I do believe in loving all things in God, for God is at the core of all being. In the Holy Mass it says as part of the cannon" touched by your hand our world is holy." God is there even in places he seems most absent, so I am forever and hopefully eternally surrounded by My One true love. So wherever I am along the road religious or not he is ever present to me even if i cannot see it and therein lies my faith. Therein lies my love. My Emmanuel, God with us.

Perhaps God may have desired one to be a religious. It is an offering he extends out of love, not a demand. If one chooses to marry, you can be sure that in his infinite Mercy he will still Love you and bring you to sanctity. All he asks is that you seek him with all your heart, no matter in what state of life you have chosen. Not choosing to be a religious does not close us off from still becoming Saints. Does scripture not say "if you seek me you will find me if you seek me with all your heart?" And, If anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my Father will love him and we shall come to him and make our home with him." The standard Christ gives for union with him is love, not our station in life. Where else can ones true love be found but in the heart of the trinity. With God who dwells in the deepest recesses of our souls. Whether we come to love him directly or vicariously through marriage, we are still seeking his face.

We discern his will as best we can with whatever light God has given us... the rest is up to His infinite Mercy to bring our salvation and those around us to completion in Him.

I/we need to worry less about which way to go and trust more in letting God gently lead us. We need to look less at the road we travel so as not to miss the glory of our final destination and that destination is union with Him for all eternity. That union is the ultimate immersion in That "One True Love," with Jesus in the heart of the Trinity of Love.

When you point at the stars in the heavens if you concentrate to much on your finger pointing you risk missing the vision and beauty of the celestial universe. The same is true in our Journey to God. Find him in the present moment and automatically you will find what road he is leading you on. For he NEVER leads those he loves astray and should we get lost at times we know he will leave the 99 to bring the one lost lamb back to his fold, for our is a loving God full of Mercy and compassion.

So wherever you are on the road, he is as close as your heart. Seek him there and all the rest will be added unto you.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Indwelling Trinity