God's Beloved Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Some apostolic religious have a tradition of receiving ' a black veil' several years after final profession which is optional for those who desire to receive it .
Chiquitunga Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 The prayer of blessing or consecration in the rite of religious profession for women has two versions----only one version uses spousal imagery. So it is possible some religious congregations do not use the version of the blessing with a spousal imagery .It is also possible that within the same religious congregation or institute for women , some members receive a blessing during their Perpetual Profession which has spousal imagery and others receive a blessing without this imagery. This is because Religious life 'in general' reflects the marriage of the Church with Christ . Since community life is essential to religious life , the religious community reflects the church community which is the Bride of Christ . Each member 'participates' in the spousal union and has freedom to follow the spousal spirituality privately as several religious do. A consecrated virgin even as an individual reflects the entire church community which is the Bride of Christ. Really quick, I wanted to ask about this, because I do not see it this way in the Ordo Professionis Religiosae. I found a used copy on amazon that just came in the mail. There is a version specifically for men given in the first part "Ordo Professionis Religiosorum" and then there is a version specifically for women in the second part, "Ordo Professionis Religiosarum" There are not two versions of the consecration prayer for women, but only one, and that one version has the spousal imagery. I went through it several times to be sure, and that version is the only one offered for women. I am not trying to use this as an example of how the Rite of CV and Rite of Religious Profession are the same. They are not. But this is a good example of how the Church views consecrated men and women differently.
Chiquitunga Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 On another related topic, A Few Lines to Tell You is incorrect in saying that the bishop has the authority to give the Consecration of Virgins to any nuns. Sponsa Christi never gave that authority to local bishops. A decision that important remains with the Holy See or the Father General of an Order, not a local bishop. Maybe they did get that permission though from the Holy See, through the bishop, and it is just not mentioned in detail in the book. That book is partly fictional, though based on facts about their life. I will ask about this, but I don't think the bishop, both then in the 1950's and now, would have done this if proper permission had not been given. The bishop who presided at the recent Solemn Profession was a highly respected competent bishop of the Church. Earlier in the thread, you were saying that Nuns can choose the Rite of CV (with proper permission) and compared it to a religious community that also offers its members the ability to become ordained priests. Why is it upsetting then to hear that a Carmel may be offering its members this? It fits in completely with their enclosed lives, lived totally focused on their Spouse as it says in Verbi Sponsa. This gives another example as to how the Rite of Religious Profession and Rite of CV are different in essence. Otherwise this Carmel (referring to both examples, then and now) would have kept using the form in the Religious Profession Rite and saw using the CV RIte as redundant. But they are different as you have said. Maybe it was not possible for Discalced Carmelite Nuns to use it before because they were new. But when the opportunity came for them to seek permission to use it, some of them did. It only makes sense it light of their vocation. Also when Nuns make their Solemn Profession, it is with the intention that this is for the rest of their lives. I have a question, when in the Church was the Solemn Vow of chastity able to be dispensed by the Pope? It seems that it was at the time of St. Margaret of Hungary. And it is now, but for a long time as Sr. MC has said, it seems to have not been allowed. I wonder if Canon Law will ever go back to that. It seems sad that such a vow could be dispensed under the current law. And priests can be laicized and enter into valid marriages also. I have seen both happen, priests and formerly Solemn Professed Nuns. It seems that only the Consecration of Virgins is definitely perpetual in the Church currently, although as Sr. MC pointed out, the Consecration that God bestows in Solemn Profession can never be undone.
abrideofChrist Posted July 30, 2013 Author Posted July 30, 2013 When you understand the nature of a charism better, you'll understand it is not fitting for all religious communities even of enclosed nuns to have the Consecration of Virgins. The mendicants ALL rejected it explicitly. They didn't have to. They chose to. They broke away deliberately from the custom that was current at their time for nuns to receive the Consecration. That was their choice. Carmelites are mendicants. They deliberately rejected it. Now, centuries later, all of a sudden it is in keeping with Vatican II's wishes for people to go back to their founders to do a Consecration that was rejected? The Introduction to the Rite of Consecration of Virgins for Nuns explicitly says that only nuns in religious community that have HAD the Consecration from antiquity (1950 does not count as antiquity) or those who have received permission from competent authority (Holy See/Top Superior) can use this Rite. What I find shocking is that a Carmel thinks a bishop has the proper permission to gainsay centuries of Tradition and the founding intentions and give the nuns the Consecration. The permission must come from Rome. What if the permission did not come from Rome or the Carmelite Father General at the time (assuming he had the authority in such a weighty matter which may be too much of an assumption)? Well, we have a good thing unintentionally being used illicitely by good people. Does the practice of giving the Anointing of the Sick to all and sundry ring a bell? Even though it's a clear abuse of a great Sacrament? Canon law will probably never go back about dispensing from solemn vows. There's no reason to do so. Also, I really don't care who the bishop is/was. The fact remains that most bishops show up for a ceremony and they say whatever is put in front of them. If you've got a spiral bound collection for the bishop or even a binder, he's going to read it aloud. He's going to think this is from the ceremonial of the nuns he is reciting it for even if it isn't. The moral of the story is clearly the Carmelite Nuns realized that they were NOT completely the spouses of Christ and were really upset by it and went for the prize. What else would motivate them to take this drastic step? Which again points to the idea of an essential difference between enclosed nuns and Brides of Christ.
Sponsa-Christi Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 When you understand the nature of a charism better, you'll understand it is not fitting for all religious communities even of enclosed nuns to have the Consecration of Virgins. The mendicants ALL rejected it explicitly. They didn't have to. They chose to. They broke away deliberately from the custom that was current at their time for nuns to receive the Consecration. That was their choice. Carmelites are mendicants. They deliberately rejected it. Now, centuries later, all of a sudden it is in keeping with Vatican II's wishes for people to go back to their founders to do a Consecration that was rejected? This is kind of a side topic, but I think that the consecration of virgins could harmonize well with the Carmelite charism. Even though Carmelites as we know them today are patterned after the mendicant Orders, they do trace their spiritual heritage back much further. While I would agree that communities that don't have permission to use the consecration of virgins shouldn't try to "sneak it in" to their solemn profession ceremonies, it's also entirely possible that this particular monastery did have the proper permission to use the Rite of Consecration. In the mid-twentieth century, permission to use the Rite was given in a few surprising places--including one American community of active (!!!) Benedictines (because this particular community was able to trace their foundation to a monastery in Germany that had a tradition of using the Rite). Unfortunately, though, I don't recall which community it was, and I'm presuming they dropped this custom after Vatican II.
God's Beloved Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Really quick, I wanted to ask about this, because I do not see it this way in the Ordo Professionis Religiosae. I found a used copy on amazon that just came in the mail. There is a version specifically for men given in the first part "Ordo Professionis Religiosorum" and then there is a version specifically for women in the second part, "Ordo Professionis Religiosarum" There are not two versions of the consecration prayer for women, but only one, and that one version has the spousal imagery. I went through it several times to be sure, and that version is the only one offered for women. I am not trying to use this as an example of how the Rite of CV and Rite of Religious Profession are the same. They are not. But this is a good example of how the Church views consecrated men and women differently. http://books.google.co.in/books?id=FHZBFvLa5SkC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=you+make+the+human+family+your+bride+radiant+with+your+own+likeness,&source=bl&ots=MWZ17Mh19v&sig=UzSBJXuZH366Qm0QMZ7bDyieYJ4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mYDhUNWnGYjPrQfCnICQCg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=you%20make%20the%20human%20family%20your%20bride%20radiant%20with%20your%20own%20likeness%2C&f=false Point 72 gives one version of solemn blessing or consecration of the professed Point 73 mentions the ring as signifying ‘Betrothal’ Point 159 gives another solemn prayer of blessing or consecration of the professed. This book refers to the 1988-89 versions . I've refered to the one for women religious.
God's Beloved Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 continued...... http://www.ssccpicpus.com/userfiles/file/Liturgy/Liturgy%20ENG/Ritual%20SSCC%20Religious%20Profession_E.pdf [ approved in Rome in Feb 2012 ] pages 72-76 mention the two options for the prayer of blessing or consecration for religious women [ in this case the same congregation can use either of the two options for women. Only one has spousal imagery]. One needs to also differentiate between the Anamnesis and the the Epiklesis in the prayer . The first part remembers God's work in the history of humankind and the Church. The second part invokes the grace of the Holy Spirit upon the religious women. A careful study of the rite also shows the intention of the Church that the religious profession should make the glory of baptism shine again with the innocence of newborn life , with the Church as their mother.
God's Beloved Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 This is very interesting : shows the development of the bride of Christ imagery in the history of the Church Marrying Jesus: Brides and the Bridegroom https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent?id=uuid:dbcaac3a-c91e-4eb3-bb18-852a84d09859&ds=DATA_FILE
abrideofChrist Posted July 31, 2013 Author Posted July 31, 2013 This is very interesting : shows the development of the bride of Christ imagery in the history of the Church Marrying Jesus: Brides and the Bridegroom https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent?id=uuid:dbcaac3a-c91e-4eb3-bb18-852a84d09859&ds=DATA_FILE I would not recommend this work to most people, particularly if they are not themselves scholars. It treats of mystical writings and practices in a manner which demonstrates a lack of theological training in the Church's tradition. This is a work for a secular university and it can be quite confusing for the person not steeped in Catholic hagiography and ascetical and mystical theology. I personally did not find this work to be helpful for the discussion.
ACS67 Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 This is very interesting : shows the development of the bride of Christ imagery in the history of the Church Marrying Jesus: Brides and the Bridegroom https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent?id=uuid:dbcaac3a-c91e-4eb3-bb18-852a84d09859&ds=DATA_FILE Wow! That's interesting stuff and I have only read the first 20 pages. I have already voiced my opinion on this whole matter so I won't comment further. But thank you for the link to that dissertation.
God's Beloved Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 I cannot but help looking at the bride of Christ imagery from other perspectives . Some CVs live in countries where there are atheists , people of other religions ......some CVs work in multi religious societies . Ideally a CV should be able to explain her choice of vocation in all these terms too. In most major religions there is the practice of virgins marrying God : CV in Christianity , Marrying the Quran in Islam , Marrying trees among Primitive tribes , Devdasi system in some hindu communities ........etc. etc. Read this one : http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/pakistan-pakistan-paquistan-26873/ One cannot help reflect in depth on all this. Isn't this one of the reasons why a growing number of religious institutes are moving away from bridal imagery , especially in Africa and Asia where this has led to abuse of women ? i understand people discerning on this site are mostly of a traditional and conservative thinking. However for authentic discernment , one needs information from a broader perspective. I also think , to arrive at the truth of the charism of CV , to build a deeper theology of women as Pope Francis desires , we need to look at this theme broadly and deeply . Charisms are the gift of the Holy Spirit for the community of the Church and the human community . In what way the charism of being really a true bride of Christ as a CV concretely serves her purpose , and how this is different from those women who reflect the Church as bride of Christ in varying degrees ...... will help to understand the uniqueness of CV .
abrideofChrist Posted July 31, 2013 Author Posted July 31, 2013 The dissertation is written by a non-Catholic or a very poorly catechized Catholic. It contains adult themes and imagery which may be disturbing to innocent minds. It also has numerous theological errors in addition to the very disturbing sexual imagery. Such a work can be useful for the professional who reads and interprets private revelations and must sort through piles of pseudo mystical works of others. I personally think that the Church has said quite enough that is beautiful and true about our vocation and I do not need half baked truths or lies from others who are trying to understand mystical works from the middle ages. Also, just because people abuse the good in some countries does not mean that the imagery is invalid. It simply means that it is being abused! Women should be empowered and part of this is giving them adequate catechesis so that they do not fall victim to predatory men. All this however, to me, still does not explain how this book or any of the other many things quoted by various people on this thread are resolving the question of how to keep women from being misled by not telling them they are not fully brides of Christ unless they are also a CV?
Laurie Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 This is very interesting : shows the development of the bride of Christ imagery in the history of the Church Marrying Jesus: Brides and the Bridegroom https://cdr.lib.unc.edu/indexablecontent?id=uuid:dbcaac3a-c91e-4eb3-bb18-852a84d09859&ds=DATA_FILE If you type "consecrated virgin" or "bride of Christ" into the Google Books bar, you'll come up with a number of recent works on these topics. Seems the Church's vocations/imagery have been hot topics among the secular set in the last few decades. I skimmed the link above. Looks like it might have some interesting footnotes that point to obscure sources. Beyond that, two thoughts: 1) I find that those in liberal arts departments mostly don't know a fig about the Church. Then they write dissertations and are astonished at what they find! And they think they've made discoveries that are profound. They think they know more about the Church than she herself does. Anyone who has read the poems of St. John of the Cross ("Dark Night of the Soul" e.g., knows about the kinds of language used in treating mystical love). This is not an astonishing "discovery" unless you've been keeping your head under a bushel basket. (The Psalms themselves, and the Ecstasy of St. Teresa are other examples.) 2) I say many liberal arts departments don't know a fig about the Church, because they don't care to. They don't believe in an objective or serious theology. They don't believe in one or more branches of an objective and serious philosophy. The latter means they get absorbed in linguistic "meanings" that are forever in flux, changing with times and peoples. There is no grounding for anything (language, culture, religions) other than human will and decision making. A book on spousal imagery in the middle ages written by someone of this mindset will be, at best, a chronicling of sources. But it won't be just this. It will be compiled and interpreted by someone looking at the mansucripts divorced from the living history and culture that gave them life. Further, it will be interpreted by someone who does not believe language means anything concrete at all. This is the polar opposite of what the Church does when she considers spousal imagery. This is the polar opposite of how the Church understands language. The Church believes there is such a thing that we can call reality. It consists of God--who He is in Himself, and in relation to everything He created. He made persons (angelic and human) intelligent, so they could know him, and free, so they could choose (or not) to love Him. The human persons' knowing and choosing is more complicated, because human persons exist as a union of soul and body. The human persons mind is capable of knowing reality and expressing that truth known in language. Language is therefore grounded in metaphysics (what we can know, philosophically, about things that exist, and how they exist) and it is also grounded in Divine Revelation. When the Church uses the term spousal, she is doing so because she believes it expresses something profound and true about herself, her mystical body, her foundation in Christ, and about the members who make up her body. This is not to say that certain images aren't used more in one culture and less than another, more in one age and less in another. There is certainly a human element, and a human flux, to some of this. But it does mean that a serious, trained, theological scholar/historian is going to have a radically different approach, and draw radically different conclusions, about the Church's use of language than will someone coming at it from a postmodern mindset. [I popped on here to look at recent posts and see the thread has mushroomed since I was away. It's too much for me to read right now, but I'm thankful for everyone's input.]
Laurie Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Let me add, I'm not saying the dissertation found at that link limits itself to analyzing the Church's use of language. I only skimmed it, but I'm guessing the author probably conflates "the Church" with every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the middle ages who wrote something on mystical love. So it's probably a mish mash of reputable writings, saints' reflections of varying importance, and stuff from the Joe Schmoes that no one cares about because they were off the beam to begin with. Just my best guess.
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Blessed John Paul II Women Religious Faithfully Serve Christ General Audience March 15, 1995 The life of consecrated women has a very important place in the Church. It is enough to think of the deep influence of the contemplative life and prayer of women religious. We think of their work in education and health care, of their collaboration in many places in parish life, of the important services that they provide at diocesan or interdiocesan levels and of the specialized tasks which they are increasingly assuming even in the Holy See. Let us also remember that in some countries the proclamation of the Gospel, catechetical activities and even the conferring of Baptism are largely entrusted to women religious, who have direct contact with the people in schools and families. Neither should we forget the other women who, in various forms of individual consecration and ecclesial communion, give of themselves to Christ in service to his kingdom in the Church. This happens today in the order of virgins, which one enters through special consecration to God in the hands of the diocesan bishop (cf. CIC, can. 604). Blessed be this multiform host of "handmaids of the Lord." Down the centuries they extend and renew the very beautiful experience of the women who followed Jesus and served him and his disciples (cf. Lk 8:1-3). No less than the apostles, they experienced the overwhelming power of the divine Master's word and love, and began to help and serve him to the best of their ability on his missionary journeys. Jesus' pleasure is apparent in the Gospel. He could not fail to appreciate these expressions of generosity and kindness typical of feminine psychology, but inspired by a faith in his person beyond mere human explanation. Mary Magdalene was a significant example of this. A faithful disciple and minister of Christ in his life, she was also later a witness to and, one could almost say, the first messenger of his resurrection (cf. Jn 20:17-18). It cannot be ruled out that her gesture of sincere and faithful adherence is a sublime reflection of the sense of total dedication that leads a woman to betrothal. Even more so, at the level of supernatural love, it leads to virginal consecration to Christ, as I pointed out in Mulieris Dignitatem (cf. n. 20). In this following of Christ expressed as service, we can also discover the other feminine quality of self-giving, which the Virgin Mary so vividly expressed in her final words to the angel: "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word" (Lk 1:38). It is an expression of faith and love, which is made concrete in obedience to the divine call, at the service of God and of our brothers and sisters. Thus it was with Mary; thus it was with the women who followed Jesus; thus it was with all those who, in their footsteps, were to follow him down the centuries. Today spousal mysticism appears less pronounced in young aspirants to the religious life. This outlook is not fostered by the common mentality, by school or by reading. Besides, there are well-known saintly figures who found and followed other paths in their relationship of consecration to God. This includes service to the coming of his kingdom, the gift of themselves to him in order to serve him in their poor brothers and sisters, and a keen sense of his sovereignty ("My Lord and my God!"--cf. Jn 20:28). It also includes identification with the Eucharistic sacrifice, being a daughter of the Church, the vocation to works of mercy, the desire to be the least or the last in the Christian community, to be the heart of the Church or to offer in their own souls a little temple to the Blessed Trinity. These are some of the leitmotifs of a life--like that of St. Paul and especially that of Mary--grasped by Christ Jesus (cf. Phil 3:12). In addition, it could be useful to underscore for all women religious the value of participating in the condition of the "servant of the Lord" (cf. Is 41:9; 42:1; 49:3; Phil 2:7, etc.), proper to Christ the priest and victim. The service that Jesus came to fulfill by giving his life "as a ransom for many" (Mt 20:28) becomes an example to be imitated and a redeeming participation, to be lived in fraternal service (cf. Mt 20:25-27). This does not exclude--on the contrary, it includes--special fulfillment of the Church's spousal dimension in union with Christ and in the constant application to the world of the fruits of the redemption wrought by the priesthood of the cross. According to the Council, the mystery of the Church's spousal union with Christ is represented in every consecrated life (cf. LG 44), especially through the profession of the evangelical counsel of chastity (cf. PC 12). It is understandable that this representation is especially realized in the consecrated woman. To her the title sponsa Christi is frequently attributed, even in the liturgical texts. Tertullian applied the image of nuptials with God to men and women without distinction when he wrote: "How many men and women in the ranks of the Church have appealed to continence and preferred to be wedded to God..." [1] . But it cannot be denied that the feminine soul has a particular capacity to live in a mystical spousal relationship with Christ and thus to reproduce in herself the face and heart of his bride, the Church. This is why, in the rite for the profession of women religious and consecrated virgins in the world, the singing or recitation of the antiphon "Veni sponsa Christi..." fills their hearts with intense emotion, enveloping those concerned and the whole assembly in an aura of mysticism. In the logic of the union with Christ as priest and spouse, the sense of spiritual motherhood is also developed in women. Virginity, or evangelical chastity, implies renouncement of physical motherhood, but so as to be expressed, according to God's plan, in a superior kind of motherhood on which the light of the Virgin Mary's motherhood shines. Every consecrated virgin is destined to receive from the Lord a gift which in a certain way reproduces the features of universality and spiritual fruitfulness of Mary's motherhood. This is shown in the work accomplished by many women religious in educating young people in faith. It is well known that many female congregations were founded and have established numerous schools precisely to impart this education. Especially when it is a question of little ones, womanly qualities are valuable and indispensable for this. This is also the case with many works of charity and assistance to the poor, the sick, the handicapped, the abandoned, especially children and little girls, once described as waifs. These are all cases where dedication and compassion, the treasures of the feminine heart, are involved. It is finally found in the various forms of cooperation in the services provided by parishes and Catholic institutions, where a woman's capacities for collaboration in the pastoral ministry are being ever more clearly revealed. However, among all the values in female religious life, prayer should always be recognized as having priority. This is the main form of achieving and expressing intimacy with the divine bridegroom. All women religious are called to be women of prayer, women of piety, women of interior life, of a life of prayer. If it is true that the witness to this vocation is more obvious in institutes of contemplative life, certainly it also appears in institutes of the active apostolate that carefully safeguard the times of prayer and contemplation which correspond to the needs and demands of consecrated persons and to the advice given in the Gospel. Jesus recommended prayer to all his disciples. He wished to shed light on the value of a life of prayer and contemplation with the example of a woman, Mary of Bethany, whom he praised for choosing "the better part" (Lk 10:42): listening to the divine word, assimilating it, making it a secret of life. Was not this a light for the whole future contribution of women to the Church's life of prayer? In assiduous prayer, moreover, lies the secret of perseverance in that commitment of fidelity to Christ which must serve as an example for everyone in the Church. This unblemished witness to persevering love can be a great help to other women in critical situations which in this regard also afflict our society. We hope and pray that many women religious, possessing the heart of a bride of Christ and showing it in their lives, may also help reveal to all people the Church's fidelity in her union with Christ her spouse and enable them to understand it better: fidelity in truth, in charity, and in yearning for universal salvation. [1] Â De exhort. cast., 13; PL 2:930A; Corp. Christ, 2, 1035, 35-39
abrideofChrist Posted July 31, 2013 Author Posted July 31, 2013 Sr. Mary Catherine, you admirably quote from the Holy Father, but I have still yet to see how it helps the discussion. Usually when a person quotes something but it does not directly respond to a question, the person citing the text explains how it fits with their position and how it refutes points of the other's position. Did I miss this explanation or did the forum eat it up? I do not see how it helps distinguish the differences between virgins and religious. Further, even though St. Thomas taught about consecrated virginity and the significance of the veiling of virgins, I did not see this in your quote. Even if you had not quoted him, it would have been helpful for me to know we are on the same page and could initiate a proper discussion with common principles. Even if you were to quote from the Holy Fathers' various addresses to Consecrated Virgins, the Rite of Virgins, the documents that led to the revision of the Rite, or respected theologians on the subject of consecrated virginity per se, I feel we could then establish what is common ground and where exactly you stand. I must admit that I am astonished that the Angelic Doctor's works would not be readily available to a Dominican. Surely you have a treasure trove at your fingertips, a luxury most of us, including myself, do not have on the subject of consecrated virginity. Unless, of course, the only work your convent possesses of St. Thomas is the Summa. Then, maybe it is time to ask the faithful for donations for increasing your library's holdings on the writings of such a prominent saint in your Order. I do appreciate the fact that you are a busy nun and that you take the time to post on this forum. Please understand that the quote you provided was beautiful, but I simply cannot see how it advances our understanding of what the essence of religious consecration is vs. the virginal consecration.
Nunsense Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Another resource book... I am Republishing The One Bride: The Church and Consecrated Virginity Sr. Mary Jane Klimisch, OSB by Therese Ivers, JCL Posted on July 29, 2013 by Therese Ivers, JCL Several years ago I was doing research in a seminary library and decided for “down time†I would read a book on consecrated virginity. After climbing dusty stairs and sifting through dustier books, I came across this gem on consecrated virginity in its form prior to 1970. Sr. Klimisch takes you through what it means for the Church to be called Bride. She goes on to speak of how people can be called Brides of Christ. She also discusses religious life, and how that fits into the Church’s relationship with Christ. In one of her final chapters, Klimisch treats of nuns who receive the Consecration of Virgins. more at ... http://doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/877
Chiquitunga Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 nunsense, Praised be Jesus Christ! I am right now at this moment reading this book, which I was able to find a used copy of online the other day. It was also at a library near me, but I searched again and found a reasonably priced ($20) used copy on amazon. It just came in the mail today! Just thought I'd go back to PM to refresh VS and saw you posted this! It is very interesting reading ... I was going to put a few excerpts here, and offer to scan the whole thing (partly because I felt guilty buying it, I should have told abride about it first) and put it online when I have more free time in late September, but now I won't have to (Praise the Lord, because that takes time!) oh my goodness, I wonder if Therese Ivers is actually reading this thread and sees us inquiring about it :proud: & now here I am at a very ungoly hour again on phatmass!
Chiquitunga Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Hi Chiquitunga! Thank you for continuing this very open minded discourse and for reopening this subject. Let me be sure that I actually understand where you are coming from. It seems like we are really on the same page except that you are not entirely comfortable with the idea that nuns who are not CVs should not be called brides of Christ. Is that correct? Again, I think that this what you are trying to express and I just want to double check because I understand how frustrating it can be to be misunderstood. abrideofChrist, I am going back to this post of yours to add clarity to the discussion. This I meant to do before I got the book The One Bride today, to state what I believe again, and to wrap up the conversation from my end for the time being (not because I do not like the conversation but to attend to another pressing matter in my life). Yes, that is what the conversation boils down to. I believe there is a difference in essence between the Consecration to a Life of Virginity and Religious Profession of Vows, and that the Church clearly gives the CV this title and specifically consecrates her as thus. And she takes on the whole charism of the Church as Virgin, Bride & Mother. But I still believe a Nun can be called a bride of Christ in a special way, beyond that of her Baptism (I would include Religious Sister in that, though not in the same way, but for instance as the Abbot wrote here) and I believe she is espoused to Christ in her Religious Profession, which it seems Sr. Mary Jane Klimisch would agree with from what I've read so far... (I will quote her in the next post, I am writing two posts at once actually! hopefully it will not be too confusing) I gave other reasons, but most of these really go back to the Vatican document Verbi Sponsa. I know I keep mentioning and linking to it, but I still wonder about what your specific response to it is. If it is specifically referring to the Nun as "bride of the Incarnate Word" & not making reference to consecrated virgins, I do not believe it can be argued that really Nuns should not be called this. Otherwise the Church would be making a mistake in that document. I think the Consecration to a Life of Virginity heightens and confirms this further for the Nun, and formally gives her this title, and makes her perfectly image the Church, as virgin and bride, and gives her a plenitude of new graces to live this out. This is what it seems to be saying in the book, though I need to read further and a few times again to really understand it ...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Abride, I posted that text of Bl. John Paul specifically to point out that the CHURCH calls women religious brides of Christ and in this audience text the Holy Father talks about why. The CHURCH herself is the bride of Christ. Everyone, including CV's participate in this spousal character of the Church but in different degrees. A CV participates in the spousal character of the Church in a unique way by her consecration as a Consecrated Virgin. She has the charism to manifest to the Church her spousal nature in a very specific way: the consecration of her being as virgin. It is her vocation to be a spouse of Christ, to be totally given to God through a virginity consecrated to and by Him. Hers is a secular vocation, that is a vocation LIVED IN THE WORLD. (That is all secular means, if one hasn't studied Latin.That is why a diocesan priest is called a secular priest.) I'm not talking here about the consecration of virgins received by monastic women. A monastic woman as the dual charism of the consecrated virgin and monastic consecration. A religious woman ALSO participates in the spousal character of the Church and has the charism to manifest it to the Church in another way less specific than the consecrated virgin. But she is still a spouse of Christ. NOT partially. No one can be partially a bride! But her charism is not specifically only that of bride as the CV is but images to the Church the total following of Christ in an evangelical way of life that is ALSO consecrated. As a woman her following of Christ is spousal. The Church, in her liturgy and writings has made this adequately clear. EVERY baptized person participates in the spousal character of the Church as well but it is not the charism of the lay faithful to manifest it to the Church. No religious woman is trying to dupe anyone or suppress the specific and beautiful vocation of a consecrated virgin. Such an accusation is unfounded and uncharitable. I myself have recommended to women that they give it serious consideration. In order to highlight the specific character of one vocation it is not necessary or helpful to speak in a derogatory way about another vocation, nor are snide and rude comments helpful, either. I think that this thread is harmful to a fruitful discussion on the vocations of the Consecrated Virgin and the vowed religious woman. It could cause a lot of confusion to someone, especially someone doing a google search and coming upon it.
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