Bride Of Christ

[abrideofChrist]

MLF,

 

I realize that it can be confusing as to what to look for when conducting research.  I am presupposing that you and everyone else do not have access to good solid libraries with an extensive holding on philosophical and theological works and that any research you do is limited to the internet (which is by definition very limited).

 

I do not know how you came across the article you cited.  But I would guess that you did it by an internet search.  What led you to read this article?  What caught your attention?  Why did you only read this article?  Did you compare what was said in this article vs. what was said in Jimmy Akin's article?  Did you compare what the Catechism and the Code of Canon Law (and other Church documents) say about marriage, divorce, remarriage, annulments, and the like?  If you only read this one article because it may have popped up for Pauline Privilege, why do you think that I suggested several different terms to research like annulments, divorce, dissolution.  Do you realize that the Catholic Encyclopedia has articles on divorce and marriage and other topics?  This is what I mean by research.  Not only do we look for things, but we also try to correlate what we find with what we know.  If there is a discrepancy, we do more research!  I will tell you that just because two unbaptized people go through a wedding ceremony and divorce and remarry, without knowing anything else, we cannot say for sure whether they are in an adulterous relationship or in a true marriage.  But don't take my word for this.  Find out why what I say is true or whether it is false.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I can try to find out, sure.

 

Btw I came across something interesting... it seems from the comments of this blog post by Fr Z, - that consecrated virginity for those living in the world and not part of religious institutes, was only banned from 1950-1970, but it was allowed in other times. I seem to remember reading before that it was generally banned before VII. It seems from these comments, that maybe it was only banned for 20 years. Before VII, with the exception of these 20 years, it was given to women living in the world and to some nuns who qualified for it in specific orders. http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/09/virgins-consecrated-virgins-yes-consecrated-virgins/

 

The change that happened it seems, was making it into two Rites, instead of one. It also began to be mentioned in Canon law: I'm not sure if it was canonical before, it seems like it was practiced but wasn't "canonical", according to the comments again.

Edited August 20, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[abrideofChrist]

MLF,

 

That article is interesting but it doesn't give the full story.  Only some versions of the Rite of Consecration had only ONE form (nuns only).  Historically, the Rite of Consecration was given ONLY to women in the world.  Then it was given to BOTH women in the world and in convents.  Then it was given to just women in convents (1950).  Then in 1970, the Rite split up again.  The Rite has always been in existence but the significance of it being restored to women living in the world is that it is spousal and not religious life!

[abrideofChrist]

As for the other question, I will know that you have a decent grasp of what marriage is if your understanding of it can explain these things:

 

1)  What is the difference between a single person, a gay "married" person, a Mormon with two wives, a marriage between two unbaptized atheists, a priest in a civil marriage, a marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptized person?

 

2)  How do we understand and explain a valid marital bond?  A valid indissoluble bond?

 

3)  How is marriage effected? 

[abrideofChrist]

In case anyone missed this, I have located this beautiful article on St. Joseph and virginity.  St. Joseph is the protector of virgins.  http://www.theway.org.uk/Back/s040Sandeman.pdf

Edited August 20, 2013 by abrideofChrist

[abrideofChrist]

Re: The Marriage Bond

 

A lot of people claim that marriage is sacramental and consecrated virginity is not.  Therefore, a true spousal bond can only be forged by one of the 7 Sacraments.  If this idea is true, then Consecrated Virginity does not have a true spousal bond because it is not effected by one of the 7 Sacraments.  Is this a fair assessment of popular belief?

 

Here's the uncomfortable truth.  The true spousal bond of marriage can be forged without the Sacrament.  It happens all the time.  The majority of the world's population probably contracts natural marriage instead of sacramental marriage.  A sacramental marriage can only happen between two baptized persons.  But, you see, the Church recognizes the validity of natural marriages!

 

If a TRUE spousal bond can be formed between a man and a woman without the Sacrament of Matrimony, then the TRUE spousal bond between the virgin and Christ can be formed without a SACRAMENT.

[abrideofChrist]

For a valid natural marriage bond (not talking about Sacramental marriage yet) to form, certain requirements must be met.  The same thing goes for consecrated virginity.

 

The requirements for consecrated virginity are listed in the Rite itself.  There are two sets.  One is for nuns and the other is for virgins living in the world.  For those living in the world, they read are:

 

1. That they have never married or lived in public or open violation of chastity
2. That by their age, prudence, and universally approved character they give assurance of perseverance in a life of chastity dedicated to the service of the Church and of their neighbor
3. That they be admitted to this consecration by the bishop who is the ordinary of the place

 

Because marriage and consecrated life are mutually exclusive (cf. Vita Consecrata), the first requirement the Church makes is that the virgin have never married.  This is interpreted to include both  civil marriage and as a Church one.  This requirement is different from marriage because widows and widowers are allowed to marry again.  The second part of this requirement refers to the requirement for virginity.  Virginity is required, but the bishop judges this by the exterior actions of the candidate and her reputation.  Again, this element is different from marriage's requirements.

 

The second requirement is based upon the maturity level of the candidate.  Again this is different from other vocations, including marriage.  Those who marry have the right to marry even if it is probable they won't live up to their marriage commitment.  Marriage also pertains to the obligations of those in the family.  This is mirrored in the Church's call to service of God and neighbor for the CV's family, the whole world.

 

In marriage, each spouse admits the other to the state of matrimony.  In the Consecration, the bishop stands in place of the Bridegroom and admits the CV to the state of being a bride of Christ.

[abrideofChrist]

As said earlier, people who are eligible have the right to contract marriage.  They can get married provided that their intended spouse agrees to it.  This is different and similar to consecrated virginity.  Virgins can become consecrated provided that Christ agrees through their bishop. 

[Maggyie]

Re: The Marriage Bond

 

A lot of people claim that marriage is sacramental and consecrated virginity is not.  Therefore, a true spousal bond can only be forged by one of the 7 Sacraments.  If this idea is true, then Consecrated Virginity does not have a true spousal bond because it is not effected by one of the 7 Sacraments.  Is this a fair assessment of popular belief?

 

Here's the uncomfortable truth.  The true spousal bond of marriage can be forged without the Sacrament.  It happens all the time.  The majority of the world's population probably contracts natural marriage instead of sacramental marriage.  A sacramental marriage can only happen between two baptized persons.  But, you see, the Church recognizes the validity of natural marriages!

 

If a TRUE spousal bond can be formed between a man and a woman without the Sacrament of Matrimony, then the TRUE spousal bond between the virgin and Christ can be formed without a SACRAMENT.

 

and without a consecration. Right?

 

Nowhere is it said that a woman can't have a TRUE spousal bond with Christ unless she is a consecrated virgin.

[abrideofChrist]

and without a consecration. Right?

 

Nowhere is it said that a woman can't have a TRUE spousal bond with Christ unless she is a consecrated virgin.

 

Well, actually, if the Church says that the Consecration makes a virgin a bride of Christ, then one has to conclude that a woman cannot have a TRUE spousal bond with Christ unless she is a consecrated virgin.  Just like if the Church says that consent makes a man and a woman a husband and wife, then one has to conclude that a man and woman cannot have a TRUE spousal bond between each other without this consent.

[abrideofChrist]

And just to clarify, Maggie, the reason I bring up non-Sacramental marriage is that people were thinking that maybe there is no ontological change in the CV when she is consecrated because the consecration is a sacramental and not a sacrament.  People accept the fact that marriage changes a person, but it seemed like they were accepting this because it is a sacrament.  If marriage changes a person and it is not a sacrament, then it is logical to deduce that a sacramental can change someone without being a sacrament. 

[abrideofChrist]

Laurie, just curious.  Have you any developments yet in your research on analogy? 

Edited August 23, 2013 by abrideofChrist

[cmaD2006]

Moving to debate table. 

[Laurie]

Thanks, CMARIADIAZ, for shifting this thread over.

 

ABC, thank you! Having you & some of the others inquire about this periodically is just what I need to keep going on it. Yes, I'm making progress, though it is slow. I haven't decided how I will share what I come up with when I do. Perhaps here on the thread, perhaps in a private message to those of you who are interested in it.

 

In the meantime, here is a crystal clear quote from Cardinal Raymond Burke stating that, unlike vows (private or public) the consecrated virgin does not consecrate herself:

 

Rome 2008 International Congress-Pilgrimage of Consecrated Virgins

May 14-20, 2008, Rome, Italy (May 16, 2008)

LEX ORANDI, LEX CREDENDI: THE RITE OF CONSECRATION AND

THE VOCATION OF CONSECRATED VIRGINITY LIVED IN THE WORLD

 

“The Introduction makes clear that the Rite effects the consecration of the virgin who presents herself and, thereby, constitutes her a sacred person in the Church. Once consecrated, once constituted a sacred person, the virgin has the grace of manifesting the love of the Church, the Bride, for her Bridegroom, Christ, and the grace of foreshadowing the heavenly wedding feast of Christ and the Church. The virgin does not consecrate herself as the religious does through the profession of the evangelical counsels. Rather, she presents herself to be consecrated by the Church.”

[CatherineM]

Mere sacramentals can change us inside. I've had a couple of people come into the church after being given one of my rosaries. They said just holding them made them feel different. Being hit with holy water always makes me feel different. People can be changed inside by going on pilgrimage.