A Question For Separated Brethren

[theculturewarrior]

I will find you a list, LJ, later on today. God bless.

[the lumberjack]

thank you in advance.

God bless.

[theculturewarrior]

Somebody get lumberjack some pepto bismal.

[theculturewarrior]

I don't think this list is exhaustive, but it is a good place to start.

It is from the Handbook of Prayers by Fr. James Socias. Here goes...

[quote]

Summary of Christian Beliefs

We are required to know and believe:

1. That there is one supreme, eternal, infinite God, the Creator of heaven and earth.
2. That the good will be rewarded by him forever in heaven, and that the wicked who die unrepentant will be punished forever in hell.
3. That in the Holy Trinity, there are three Persons, coeternal, coequal: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
4. That the second Person of the Holy Trinity became man and died on the cross to save us.
5. The tenets of the Apostles' Creed.
6. In the Commandments of God and of the Church.
7. That the seven sacraments were instituted by Christ to give us grace; especially, that Baptism is necessary and that the Eucharist is a pledge of our future glory.
8. That Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, which together form one sacred deposit of the Word of God, are entrusted to the Church.
9. Whatever God teaches by His Church, who in her teaching cannot deceive us nor be deceived. [/quote]

Edited May 20, 2004 by theculturewarrior

[theculturewarrior]

I had to type this in. I know it's not what your looking for, but thought it would be a good start.

Can we believe the above, and be saved?

[the lumberjack]

see, number 9 is the catch all...meaning anything and everything can be doctrine...

and that is where the Mariology and the statues and limbo and all the other things that I have a problem with come in.

[mulls]

#2 is wrong......who is good?


#6- what exactly are the "commandments" of the Church? does this call for another list?


#7- ummm, was marriage a sacrament instituted by Christ?


#9- how can we know what teaching is from God, and what isn't? or can we be sure without a doubt that all teaching is from God?

[mulls]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 20 2004, 01:13 PM']
Can we believe the above, and be saved? [/quote]
i don't know, is the Christian faith about maintaining a checklist of beliefs?

[theculturewarrior]

I strive to keep the Catholic Faith whole and entire, but I do not maintain a list. I provided it because I was asked.

My question is, can I believe these things and be "saved."

I understand that protestants disagree with this list. That is not the question. My question is, can Catholics believe what the Church teaches and be saved?

[mulls]

see my above statement.

i don't see much on that list about having faith in Christ and following Him.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 20 2004, 01:25 PM'] i don't know, is the Christian faith about maintaining a checklist of beliefs? [/quote]
The Christian faith is about giving up your own life and following Jesus. It means picking up your cross, having faith in Him and in the pillar and foundation of Truth.

In that there are established doctrines and principals. See especially Jesus' sermon on the Mount.

Or are you suggesting it is impossible to know Truth beyond that "Jesus is Lord"?

[theculturewarrior]

[quote]see my above statement.

i don't see much on that list about having faith in Christ and following Him.[/quote]

As far as faith in Christ goes, see 1,3,4, and 5. As far as following him, wouldn't that come under believing in the commandments of God and of the Church?

[theculturewarrior]

But I'm still not getting an answer.

Yes or no? Can I believe the tenets on the list and be saved? Why? Why not?

[theculturewarrior]

Let me rephrase the question...would believing in the above tenets cause me to lose my salvation, go to hell, or be unsaved?

[Brother Adam]

I think the best summary is the Apostles Creed.


I believe in the Holy Catholic Church.

[mulls]

EDITED:


[quote]Yes or no? Can I believe the tenets on the list and be saved? Why? Why not? [/quote]


fine, than i'll say NO.


many people believe alot of those things, just as FACT.


"yeah, yeah, i know, of course Jesus died for my sins. of course the Church is right. of course there's a Trinity. of course i'm good enough to go to heaven."


i know too many people like that, and i myself used to think like that. that's not an active belief. where's the repentance? where's the personal decision to change and follow Christ?

Edited May 20, 2004 by mulls

[dUSt]

Let me also ask it even more basically.

If I believe in 100% of what the Catholic Church teaches (forget what is dogma, doctrine, optional, etc), which specific teaching would cause me to lose my salvation?

[mulls]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 20 2004, 01:48 PM'] Let me rephrase the question...would believing in the above tenets cause me to lose my salvation, go to hell, or be unsaved? [/quote]
NO.

having those beliefs won't undo your salvation.....as long as they don't take away your faith in Christ, which doesn't seem likely from that list.

if they did make you lose your salvation, i wouldn't consider bro. adam to be saved anymore, now that he's accepted those beliefs.

and that would be ridiculous.

[dUSt]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 20 2004, 12:51 PM'] "yeah, yeah, i know, of course Jesus died for my sins. of course the Church is right. of course there's a Trinity. of course i'm good enough to go to heaven."

i know too many people like that, and i myself used to think like that. that's not an active belief. where's the repentance? where's the personal decision to change and follow Christ? [/quote]
Mulls, I'm sure you're aware that the Church teaches these things. The Church teaches us to be repentant. The Church teaches us to change and follow Christ.

Your point is not against the Church, but in humanity in general regarding any faith system. Any religion will have it's fair share of people who have empty faith--people who follow the rules just to follow them, without ever truly seeking a deeper relationship with God. You cannot fairly fault the Church for this.

[Brother Adam]

I would have to agree with mulls,

The demons knew Christ was the Messiah, before any of us did. The demons know the Word of God, the demons probably know better than any of us what it means to be in the family of God.

But the demons will be in hell for eternity.

While these beliefs above are "correct" without application into our own lives, they are just "knowledge".

The Bible, and the Church is clear:

All those who believe and are baptized will be saved. Those with faith in Christ that have been baptized into Christ are children of God. They are members of the New Covenant.