Impediments To Religious Life

[dymphnamaria]

Anyone here who have impediments to be in the religious life? I have this long desire to become a nun but my history of depression impedes me to be in this kind of life. Until i was diagnosed a bipolar. A priest once told me to stop searching for communities because i don't have vocation in religious life. I know most of the communities will really turn you down if they knew that the candidate is not mentally healthy. But what if i was just being misdiagnosed? Will i just let this thing hinder me to enter convent?I am actually planning to have a second opinion on being a bipolar. Please pray for me as I pray for your vocations.

St. Dymphna, pray for us..

[StClare_OraProNobis]

I entered religious life and eventually had to leave because of a mental illness. I will send you a PM. Peace!

[Nunsense]

Nothing is impossible for God. But your Cross will certainly be heavier in religious life with a problem like this. Pray for guidance.

[organwerke]

Well I think all depends on specific circumstances. For example the fact that you suffer from depression now doesn't mean that you can't heal in future, doing a right therapy now.
Also, there are orders that are more rigid and austhere than others, while they are orders in which daily life is not so demanding and is compatible with a week health.
I don't think depression is always an impediment in religious life unless it isn't at an high level.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Many prayers for you, and please pray for me also. I think its a great suffering for a woman, or a man, that desires more than anything to give themselves and everything to Our Lord in the religious life; in this life, but somehow is prevented either for the time being or perhaps will never be able to. I'm in this situation right now, and I think many on here are also or have been before. During this time though you have all the more opportunites to give yourself to Him as you desire, though its not where or how you would like it to be, but it is what He is asking of us at this moment. We also look forward more to Heaven and disregard that things of this world and what is has to offer; it is for me anyway during this time. It doesn't take the pain away that you feel but that's also a gift. Just think of how one day you will be able to be His and love Him not even the way you desire but even more then you could have imagined. Its a hope that we carry with the cross. I hope that you find your place where you can be at peace with Our Lord. There could be a place in a community He has planned for you; we need patience. Either way, live like a consecrated religious in your heart and be with Jesus there because thats where He is for you, especially right now.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1344263088' post='2463422']
Nothing is impossible for God. But your Cross will certainly be heavier in religious life with a problem like this. Pray for guidance.
[/quote]


Yes, this is really my Cross which i have to carry. I am actually praying to St. Dymphna to help me with this.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1344263420' post='2463426']
Well I think all depends on specific circumstances. For example the fact that you suffer from depression now doesn't mean that you can't heal in future, doing a right therapy now.
[/quote]

I am praying that this will be the case, and i am ready to wait.

[filius_angelorum]

If you have a regular spiritual director and he is telling you not to enter, obey him as if he were Christ. There have been many saints formed outside of the convent.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1344264359' post='2463430']
Many prayers for you, and please pray for me also. I think its a great suffering for a woman, or a man, that desires more than anything to give themselves and everything to Our Lord in the religious life; in this life, but somehow is prevented either for the time being or perhaps will never be able to. I'm in this situation right now, and I think many on here are also or have been before. During this time though you have all the more opportunites to give yourself to Him as you desire, though its not where or how you would like it to be, but it is what He is asking of us at this moment. We also look forward more to Heaven and disregard that things of this world and what is has to offer; it is for me anyway during this time. It doesn't take the pain away that you feel but that's also a gift. Just think of how one day you will be able to be His and love Him not even the way you desire but even more then you could have imagined. Its a hope that we carry with the cross. I hope that you find your place where you can be at peace with Our Lord. There could be a place in a community He has planned for you; we need patience. Either way, live like a consecrated religious in your heart and be with Jesus there because thats where He is for you, especially right now.
[/quote]


Thank you for your prayers as I am also praying for you. Maybe religious life is not for us but we still don't know how things would turn out. We just have to be faithful to Him because He works in a very mysterious way. He don't called the qualified, but He qualifies the called. Let us pray for the guidance of Our Lady that we will live our life always in the presence of God.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344266991' post='2463448']
If you have a regular spiritual director and he is telling you not to enter, obey him as if he were Christ. There have been many saints formed outside of the convent.
[/quote]

My spiritual director haven't told me not to enter, but if he would, I would really have to obey. Most of the saints are actually laypeople, consider Our Blessed Mother and St. Joseph, they are great saints living their lives simply in an extra-ordinary way. We are actually called to become saints.

[maximillion]

Hi, I don't think this should be a problem, as others have said it is a case of finding a community who are willing to accept you. They are out there......

The main question is if you are well controlled on medication.

You might like to look at some of MaterMisericordes posts. She has depression and has finally found a community who it seems may well accept her.

If God has placed this on your heart there will be a way to fulfil it, don't just presume that your diagnosis rules it out.
As you say, sometimes these dx are not correct, so you can always ask for a second opinion.
You need also be aware that most communities these days will want a full psychological evaluation. If you pass this I can't see why you can't become a nun or a sister.

[organwerke]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344266991' post='2463448']
If you have a regular spiritual director and he is telling you not to enter, obey him as if he were Christ. There have been many saints formed outside of the convent.
[/quote]

This is an advice honestly I don't share very much. I've always heard this story of the spiritual director as necessary for discernment, but, let me say, I sometimes find that it is given too much importance on what spiritual directors say. First of all, a spiritual director gives us advices, not orders. It is not a religious superior we have to obey as if he were Christ. I know this may sound harsh, but I often received suggestions by spiritual directors that I did not find right for me. And this does not mean they weren't excellent spiritual directors. Simply,spiritual directors are here to help us, but they are not us, nor God, so they can give suggestions that we can find inappropriate for us.
I say so because this idea that "we must obey spiritual directors as if they were Christ" caused me problems more than once. Especially if you aren't yet in an order, you haven't this kind of duty of obedience. It is up to the superiors of the order to say if you can enter or not (of course they have to be informed of the problems). If they let you enter, and you feel that you are confortable enough to do a try, you haven't to fear you are on the right path.

[OnlySunshine]

How I sympathize with you! I have had a diagnosis of depression since 1999 when I was 16 years old. The catalyst was the death of a young boy that I had a crush on for several years. I had never dealt with death before. Now, it's clear to me that all the signs of depression were there before this incident took place, but sometimes it takes a major event for the diagnosis to be made.

I have been discerning religious life ever since I made my reversion to the faith in 2007. I have discerned with 3 orders before the order I am discerning with now and the Carmelites and RSMs told me that my depression would not be a factor in whether or not I was able to apply if my depression was well controlled by medication and I could live the life normally.

The order I am discerning with at this point is from Europe and they have 3 convents in the USA. My pastor worked with our Bishop and Mother General to bring them to our parish -- which will hopefully take place in August 2013. I got up the courage to talk with one of the Sisters when they visited this last February. I told Father of my interest and he introduced me to the Provincial Superior for the USA when she made an impromtu visit because my mom and I happened to be in the parking lot. She told me if I could pass the psychological evaluation and prove that I was sound of mind with my medication that they would allow me to try the life. I just finished the evaluation on July 28th and should be getting the results within the next week or so!

If I could impart anything of knowledge that I found valuable in my own discernment, it would be to follow your heart. Don't discern with an order simply because they will accept you with your mental illness. There are orders out there that will discern each case individually, so you never know what they might say. If you feel any attraction to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus or the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, they both will allow people with mental illness, but you have to be called there.

Also, if you haven't already, I would urge you to find a Catholic therapist. Mine has been invaluable and has helped me with coping skills that will be very important in religious life. They help you find the balance you will need and I have matured greatly over the past year that I have been seeing mine.

God bless you!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1344273502' post='2463496']
This is an advice honestly I don't share very much. I've always heard this story of the spiritual director as necessary for discernment, but, let me say, I sometimes find that it is given too much importance on what spiritual directors say. First of all, a spiritual director gives us advices, not orders. It is not a religious superior we have to obey as if he were Christ. I know this may sound harsh, but I often received suggestions by spiritual directors that I did not find right for me. And this does not mean they weren't excellent spiritual directors. Simply,spiritual directors are here to help us, but they are not us, nor God, so they can give suggestions that we can find inappropriate for us.
I say so because this idea that "we must obey spiritual directors as if they were Christ" caused me problems more than once. Especially if you aren't yet in an order, you haven't this kind of duty of obedience. It is up to the superiors of the order to say if you can enter or not (of course they have to be informed of the problems). If they let you enter, and you feel that you are confortable enough to do a try, you haven't to fear you are on the right path.
[/quote]

I agree with you completely. I have had several spiritual directors and not all of them have been good. St John of the Cross even said that there is nothing worse for a soul that a bad SD - and he was a spiritual director to a lot of nuns, so he should know!

And yes, yes, yes, SDs are there to guide and offer advice but unless one has taken a vow of obedience to one's SD (as St Teresa did with Father Gratian) then obedience is not compulsory. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if there can be no common meeting of the minds with regard to vocation issues, then it would be best to find another SD. I had one once whose ideas clashed so horribly with mine (regarding traditional convents, wearing of habit etc) that I knew we would never be able to get in synch with each other, and I could never completely entrust my soul to her care.

Discern you SD as carefully as you discern your community.

[filius_angelorum]

Ok, but there is an important conditional statement in my original post. "If you have a regular spiritual director..." By "regular spiritual director", I did not mean a priest to whom you go on a semi-regular basis for spiritual advice (which we should all do), but a priest who is your confessor, director, and guide and has either been assigned to you by your community or you have gone to for a long time. Nor did I suggest that you were under an obligation of obedience to your spiritual director in the normal sense, because you can always find another spiritual director, but that, as long as you accept a particular priest for a spiritual director, you should follow his lead in all spiritual matters, precisely because he stands in the place of Christ. Under a vow of obedience you could not change directors, but you may always switch directors as long as you are free to do so.

But this is precisely why it is so important to have a regular spiritual director. Obedience is not just for religious, and until we put our lives into the hands of a true superior, we will always be tempted to act without due reverence to Divine Providence. I admit that I have almost never had a spiritual director, so I am just as guilty as any.

I think this would be a good time, dymphnamaria, to find just such a regular spiritual director, perhaps a chaplain of the order which you wish to join, and leave everything in his hands.

[BarbTherese]

I also suffer Bipolar Disorder. It took me quite a while, years, to recognize that in my instance rather than regard Bipolar in a negative light preventing me from entering religious life, I began to look on it in a positive light as a boundary permitted by God precluding certain choices and "Abandonment to Divine Providence" by Jean Pierre de Caussade led me down this latter road. I also began to question whether I had a religious vocation from God, or was it something that I personally wanted. I then began to examine and ponder why I wanted to enter religious life - what were my motivations and my initial conclusion was that I wanted to give my all and my very best to The Lord. The way my life began to unfold, I came to recognize that I could still give my all and my very best but not quite in the way I had been thinking. I also began to realize that because of the way religious life is presented, I had come to think of it as the only way I could give myself fully to God. My question then became, am I denied this total giving? I also began to realize that I could embrace the whole of my life and as entirely positive, not just that part of me that was 'the well part' as the only valuable and valid part - and was this what God was calling me to express and embrace?
Sound spiritual direction took me the rest of the way and to a full embrace of my life and situation, circumstances, as they were - and not as something unjust and unfair, willy nilly impediments, that had occured but rather as acts of The Permissive Will of God as allowing boundaries in my life and in His Permissive Will as something good and positive. Just as a person desiring to enter religious life has been gifted by God the necessary qualities, so to me He had, at that time, allowed them not to exist as indications for me of where He was not calling and inviting me. Many questions and answers flowed from there as I wrestled to internalize answers to my questions.
I developed a 'philosophy' for myself "no negative without a corresponding positive, as no positive without a corresponding negative". As my life continued to unfold and when negatives occured, I looked further to find the positive and found it, embracing it. Just as when something positive occured, I found the negative with which I needed to wrestle to [i]fully[/i] embrace the positive and as gift.

In embracing the whole of my life, I still fought against Bipolar recognizing that this struggle and fight may be the very good that The Lord intended through permitting the illness in the first place. My medical prognosis was no indication of any sort of hope of victory. Remarkably about ten years ago, and very suddenly indeed I was in control of Bipolar in the main rather than it being in control of me and against all medical prediction for my future and this prediction was very gloomy indicating I would be in the revolving door of a psychiatric ward for the rest of my life and in a psychotic state. Bipolar, I know and embrace, will be a factor probably for the rest of my life and staying in control of the illness asks that I abide by certain 'terms and conditions' that I readily embrace as indications of God's Will for me and my life and what my psychiatrist has to say asks a certain disposition of heartfelt obedience from me, almost as binding as that of my spiritual director. My spiritual director recognizes this also and my doctor and SD work together (though my psychiatrist is an athiest who spends considerable time asking me questions about Catholicism and who readily concedes that my Faith is an inner strength). I think that there is a certain and unique spirituality applying very often to those who do suffer some form of mental illness. The mistake we can make is adopting a spirituality that is not condusive to sound mental health - at least in those God has permitted that it not exist in its fullest and most common expression.

Nowadays, there are probably far more opportunities for those who may suffer some form of mental illness to enter religious life - especially with remarkable advances in medication and therapy and the understanding of mental illness itself. However, The Lord situated me in a certain time in my own life when these advances had not yet occured and were for a point further in the future. In my day, mental illness was still quite overtly and unashamedly regarded as indication of psychological weakness and even indications of a person spiritually reprobate. As science normally travels, the forward thrust of psychiatry and psychology is remarkable - and still on the move in a forward direction.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='dymphnamaria' timestamp='1344256034' post='2463402']
Anyone here who have impediments to be in the religious life? I have this long desire to become a nun but my history of depression impedes me to be in this kind of life. Until i was diagnosed a bipolar. A priest once told me to stop searching for communities because i don't have vocation in religious life. I know most of the communities will really turn you down if they knew that the candidate is not mentally healthy. But what if i was just being misdiagnosed? Will i just let this thing hinder me to enter convent?I am actually planning to have a second opinion on being a bipolar. Please pray for me as I pray for your vocations.

St. Dymphna, pray for us..
[/quote]

The 'unhinging' and negative factor about being refused anything at all in life, including an application to religious life for those suffering MI, can be the way one is refused and not so much the actual refusal. It can leave one with a real blow to self confidence and self esteem - or perhaps worse, being condescended to and patronized and just as personally destructive.
Will keep you in prayer that the bipolar condition may prove to be an inaccurate diagnosis and that your desire to enter religious life will be fulfilled. All as God may will. From experience I know that as long as one's desire is for The Lord and His Will, fulfillment and desires will occur and fully and absolutely, if not precisely as one anticipated at some point in one's journey. May The Holy Spirit be your light, guide and inspiriation.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344300479' post='2463677']
Ok, but there is an important conditional statement in my original post. "If you have a regular spiritual director..." By "regular spiritual director", I did not mean a priest to whom you go on a semi-regular basis for spiritual advice (which we should all do), but a priest who is your confessor, director, and guide and has either been assigned to you by your community or you have gone to for a long time. Nor did I suggest that you were under an obligation of obedience to your spiritual director in the normal sense, because you can always find another spiritual director, but that, as long as you accept a particular priest for a spiritual director, you should follow his lead in all spiritual matters, precisely because he stands in the place of Christ. Under a vow of obedience you could not change directors, but you may always switch directors as long as you are free to do so.

But this is precisely why it is so important to have a regular spiritual director. Obedience is not just for religious, and until we put our lives into the hands of a true superior, we will always be tempted to act without due reverence to Divine Providence. I admit that I have almost never had a spiritual director, so I am just as guilty as any.

I think this would be a good time, dymphnamaria, to find just such a regular spiritual director, perhaps a chaplain of the order which you wish to join, and leave everything in his hands.
[/quote]

I had a weird experience in the years that I searched for a priest spiritual director. I was still very ill and very often. Every approach of mine was declined and I do suspect because of I suffered bipolar and was a woman living alone under private vows. One priest I approached must have had a rough night as he drifted off to sleep (or my conversation put him to sleep!). Not knowing what to do, whether to wake him, or just continue. I decided to just continue. Finally he awoke very suddenly and said to me "Imitate Mary in Nazareth" and that concluded our appointment. I guess as I left, I was angry that he had fallen asleep and felt probably patronized and condescended to in the content of our appointment. But "Imitate Mary in Nazareth" kept coming back to mind and with me angry about the advice I daresay (memory not good!). Then probably months later, it all began to fall into place about the life Our Lady probably did live in Nazareth - a very ordinary type of life at least on the surface and this all tied in with my Confirmation patron and loved patron, St Therese of Lisieux.

And so advice that I had intitally taken as something to say for the sake of something to say, turned out to have a profound influence on my life and I was able to see a real connection between two people I dearly love - Our Lady and St Therese - both of whom point to Jesus and in discipleship of Jesus.

This in its turn led to something else. Our priests are ordained to preach The Gospel and so our homilies are inspired, I had read somewhere or other. I began to learn to listen to these homilies and for something that The Holy Spirit may have to say to me. Even in what struck me as uninspired homilies at Mass. Most always something speaks and if nothing does, then it is an invitation to me to return to the Gospel and the homily until something does.

I said to a contemplative nun friend of mine "I think our priests are very charismatic"
She said "They are, dear - and isn't it wonderful!"
I replied "No, I think it is most unfair!" LOL At that point, I was still struggling to be detached from a desire to enter religious life! Detached in the sense that it was devoid, in the main, of personal investment of one kind or another. Altho back then, I had no concept whatsoever of where I was in my journey. None! Hindisight can be a great gift (and sometimes a real burden).

[emmaberry]

Just wanted to say "yes" to those who pointed out that you can have a bad Spiritual Director. I have posted this on PM before, but the school chaplain whom I was referred to for SD did not encourage me to become a nun, or to leave school.

Sometimes, inexperienced or not-properly-trained SD's are not really looking for God's Will in a situation, but what is practical. This problem always came up with me and SDs. Of course, I appreciate them looking for the practical, because they were genuinely concerned for me, but as we know, God's plan (especially for those with a religious vocation) is not as practical as we often would like it to be.

Make an effort to get an SD, but remember that he is not God, and your relationship with your SD is not a substitute for your relationship with God, which should be strengthened through prayer and the sacraments.

I am praying for your discernment. As many have stated, an impediment narrows down the communities you can enter, which is kind of a blessing. Not trying to minimize the hardship though, as this must be very difficult for you.

[color=#222222][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1344300484' post='2463678']
I developed a 'philosophy' for myself "no negative without a corresponding positive, as no positive without a corresponding negative".[/quote]
This reminds me so much of something CS Lewis says in [i]The Great Divorce[/i]..beautiful!
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Edited August 7, 2012 by emmaberry

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1344274380' post='2463502']
How I sympathize with you! I have had a diagnosis of depression since 1999 when I was 16 years old. The catalyst was the death of a young boy that I had a crush on for several years. I had never dealt with death before. Now, it's clear to me that all the signs of depression were there before this incident took place, but sometimes it takes a major event for the diagnosis to be made.

I have been discerning religious life ever since I made my reversion to the faith in 2007. I have discerned with 3 orders before the order I am discerning with now and the Carmelites and RSMs told me that my depression would not be a factor in whether or not I was able to apply if my depression was well controlled by medication and I could live the life normally.

The order I am discerning with at this point is from Europe and they have 3 convents in the USA. My pastor worked with our Bishop and Mother General to bring them to our parish -- which will hopefully take place in August 2013. I got up the courage to talk with one of the Sisters when they visited this last February. I told Father of my interest and he introduced me to the Provincial Superior for the USA when she made an impromtu visit because my mom and I happened to be in the parking lot. She told me if I could pass the psychological evaluation and prove that I was sound of mind with my medication that they would allow me to try the life. I just finished the evaluation on July 28th and should be getting the results within the next week or so!

If I could impart anything of knowledge that I found valuable in my own discernment, it would be to follow your heart. Don't discern with an order simply because they will accept you with your mental illness. There are orders out there that will discern each case individually, so you never know what they might say. If you feel any attraction to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus or the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, they both will allow people with mental illness, but you have to be called there.

Also, if you haven't already, I would urge you to find a Catholic therapist. Mine has been invaluable and has helped me with coping skills that will be very important in religious life. They help you find the balance you will need and I have matured greatly over the past year that I have been seeing mine.

God bless you!
[/quote][quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1344274380' post='2463502']
How I sympathize with you! I have had a diagnosis of depression since 1999 when I was 16 years old. The catalyst was the death of a young boy that I had a crush on for several years. I had never dealt with death before. Now, it's clear to me that all the signs of depression were there before this incident took place, but sometimes it takes a major event for the diagnosis to be made.

I have been discerning religious life ever since I made my reversion to the faith in 2007. I have discerned with 3 orders before the order I am discerning with now and the Carmelites and RSMs told me that my depression would not be a factor in whether or not I was able to apply if my depression was well controlled by medication and I could live the life normally.

The order I am discerning with at this point is from Europe and they have 3 convents in the USA. My pastor worked with our Bishop and Mother General to bring them to our parish -- which will hopefully take place in August 2013. I got up the courage to talk with one of the Sisters when they visited this last February. I told Father of my interest and he introduced me to the Provincial Superior for the USA when she made an impromtu visit because my mom and I happened to be in the parking lot. She told me if I could pass the psychological evaluation and prove that I was sound of mind with my medication that they would allow me to try the life. I just finished the evaluation on July 28th and should be getting the results within the next week or so!

If I could impart anything of knowledge that I found valuable in my own discernment, it would be to follow your heart. Don't discern with an order simply because they will accept you with your mental illness. There are orders out there that will discern each case individually, so you never know what they might say. If you feel any attraction to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus or the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, they both will allow people with mental illness, but you have to be called there.

Also, if you haven't already, I would urge you to find a Catholic therapist. Mine has been invaluable and has helped me with coping skills that will be very important in religious life. They help you find the balance you will need and I have matured greatly over the past year that I have been seeing mine.

God bless you!
[/quote]


Thank you for your words and I am happy to know that you still continue to discern to be in religious life. I will pray for your vocation.

God bless you too!

Edited August 7, 2012 by dymphnamaria