Virgin, Qantas, And Men

[BG45]

Hello all. According to the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/123137-cue-firestorm-button/"]Cue Firestorm thread[/url], I'm supposed to post this.

I'm hoping it doesn't become a case of this:
[img]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/576171_10100128436249547_1827058193_n.jpg[/img]

All silliness aside, I'm not sure how many of you have been paying attention to the news regarding the policies of Qantas and Virgin airlines. Apparently both companies hold corporate policies that men are not allowed to sit next to unaccompanied minors on planes.

Recently, Virgin Australia announced it would be reviewing this policy [url="http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/seat-swap-outcry-moves-virgin-to-think-again-20120810-23y7q.html"]after a firefighter was moved and the cabin crew told other passengers he was not allowed to sit next to minors.[/url] A male nurse who works with kids [url="http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/nurse-humiliated-by-qantas-policy-20120813-243t4.html"]was asked to move on a Qantas flight due to his being...male and called it humiliating.[/url] Two years ago, [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11061577"]British Airways changed its policies after a man successfully sued them under Britain's Sex Discrimination Act[/url]; they still claim it wasn't discriminatory, despite the ruling that it was and their changing the policy, and unaccompanied minors now have their own section of plane. And for a little extra British Airways fun, here's a few year old editorial penned by a member of Parliament and now [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3634055/Come-off-it-folks-how-many-paedophiles-can-there-be.html"]Mayor of London Boris Johnson about how British Airways tried to move him away from his own children prior to the reversal of their policy[/url].

So my question essentially is this, do you feel it is right to ask every male to move away from an unaccompanied minor on an airplane? Is it sexist of them, or do men who say this is profiling of every man as a potential child molester simply overreacting?

[Basilisa Marie]

What.

This is insane. They expect someone to assault a kid in full view of EVERYONE on the plane? It's completely sexist.

[tinytherese]

That one man couldn't even sit next to his own children? That's just crazy.

[EmilyAnn]

Oh the world has gone insane. This is absurd in the extreme. We seem to have gotten to this stage where every person - especially men - is suspected of sexually abusing children. For starters, a vast majority of sexual abuse cases are committed by family members or other close parties. There are stories of children who have been in danger but didn't approach any adults for help because they'd been filled with so much nonsense. This policy is just plain stupid. Sexual abuse happens, yes, and it's awful. But it doesn't actually happen [i]that much[/i]. The [i]vast[/i] majority of the population have never experienced abuse.

People are far too paranoid. I had a male friend who worked in a theme park and he told me that if there was a lost child (which obviously happens a lot in theme parks) he wasn't allowed to touch the child at all - not to hug them or hold their hand or anything. He said it broke his heart because a poor lost child just wants someone to give them a hug or hold their hand to make them feel better. But he couldn't do a thing because people would take it wrong. It's sad that a generation of children is being held at arm's length by everyone because they're scared of being labelled as a pedophile.

I'm glad I'm going away from all this madness.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1345150846' post='2468790']

I'm glad I'm going away from all this madness.
[/quote]
Please pray for those of us trying to raise kids in it.

[MIKolbe]

when all you have is a hammer....everything looks like a nail.

[Vincent Vega]

Because women never commit sexual assault.

[Vincent Vega]

And because it's always strangers who molest kids.
[spoiler]

Except for victims under age 6, most sexual assault
offenders were not family members but were otherwise
known to the victim. Sixty percent of all sexual assault
offenders were classified by law enforcement as
acquaintances of the victim. Just 14% of offenders were
strangers to their victims.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf , page 10 [/spoiler]

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1345151761' post='2468800']
Please pray for those of us trying to raise kids in it.
[/quote]

I do, I really do. Y'all deserve serious props.

[Mark of the Cross]

It could only happen in America...er wait what? Yes such things are typical of our Oz polies. Paranoia is rampant here. Teachers have to walk through the school yard with their hands in the air just in case they accidentally touch a student.
And I hate sitting next to small girls in planes. Their screams hurts my ears when I scare them.

[AnneLine]

Hmmmmm.....

A few years back, I was in a hardware store picking up something, and suddenly heard a little kid crying, "mommy? where's my mommy?" I followed the sound, and, walking around a display and found a 3 or 4 year old who had gotten separated from mommy. And a herd of adults just staring as if she'd appeared from mars.

I looked at them.... and then realized that there was no mommy to be seen.

Took the child by the hand glared at the adults and started walking the aisles with the child, saying in a VERY LOUD voice, "Don't worry, we'll find your mommy!" Took only a minute for mommy to return, very red faced. She got 'the look' from me about lettting the little one get separated (although it happens....)... .

When I related it in a small faith sharing group later that week in my parish, all the men in the group said, practically in unison, "I'm glad you could do that; I could NEVER do that. NO man could do that."

And that was the first time I realized that we really are going insane as a society over this...

That entire group of adults was petrified to do the only practical thing..... this is SAD.

[Spem in alium]

Ugh. This is so mental and demeaning. I'm flying with Virgin in a couple of days, and I can't believe that they set up policies like this. They seriously need to get their priorities right.

From the article:

[color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]"The majority of sexual assaults are [also] committed by men. Does that mean that we can't sit next to women? Should we just have a seat by ourselves and that way women and children will be protected?"[/size][/font][/color]

Valid point. Virgin's gone mad.

[AnneLine]

Encase the un-attached Males in Plastic bubbles. Stow them with the luggage?

Maybe we can get ARFink the contract and he can construct them with his nifty new laser..... hm.....

[sixpence]

yeh this is ridiculous... unless the guy is a known sex offender or something

[BG45]

Glad this hasn't gone over as badly as it might have. I've actually had people who I've chatted with who go "Of course that's a good policy! That man on the plane could easily be a sex offender!"

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1345154809' post='2468824']
It could only happen in America...er wait what? Yes such things are typical of our Oz polies. Paranoia is rampant here. Teachers have to walk through the school yard with their hands in the air just in case they accidentally touch a student.
And I hate sitting next to small girls in planes. Their screams hurts my ears when I scare them.
[/quote]

The last sentence was a priceless dry jab. And actually, I do have a very liberal friend who left the US when Bush was re-elected to live with a man in NZ and just left again to live with a different man in Korea, who was trying to tell me it was all America's fault that companies not based here would have these policies.

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1345155796' post='2468834']

When I related it in a small faith sharing group later that week in my parish, all the men in the group said, practically in unison, "I'm glad you could do that; I could NEVER do that. NO man could do that."

And that was the first time I realized that we really are going insane as a society over this...

That entire group of adults was petrified to do the only practical thing..... this is SAD.
[/quote]

I'm ashamed to admit it, but I'd not have probably done anything either, like the guys at the parish said, as a guy I probably could not do that without the worst being assumed. I've been angrily glared at for just waving back to little kids before who were waving to me.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1345158181' post='2468852']
yeh this is ridiculous... unless the guy is a known sex offender or something
[/quote]
The silly part is that in Australia you can be a sex offender and still legally obtain a working with children certificate.

[Ice_nine]

yeah it smells of elderberries when people make negative assumptions based on your gender. Not that I as a woman would be able to empathize with such phenomena. But I imagine it would feel pretty darn awful.

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1345160264' post='2468860']
The silly part is that in Australia you can be a sex offender and still legally obtain a working with children certificate.
[/quote]

That may be less ridiculous than it sounds. You can be registered as a sex offender for a million reasons, many of which have exactly zero to do with kids. So hypothetically a person could be registered as a sex offender and be no more danger to a child than you or I. I would think (or hope) that the system would eliminate those who had committed offences against children.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

St Benedict. "prefer nothing whatsoever to christ." The worlds always been a bunch of weirdos including myself, where have you all been ? Thats why i became a christian in the hope that GOD may heal my hereditary weirdness thing (our hereditary weirdness thing.)

Onward christian souls.
JESUS iz LORD.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[BG45]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1345195676' post='2469059']
That may be less ridiculous than it sounds. You can be registered as a sex offender for a million reasons, many of which have exactly zero to do with kids. So hypothetically a person could be registered as a sex offender and be no more danger to a child than you or I. I would think (or hope) that the system would eliminate those who had committed offences against children.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit my lack of familiarity with Australian law (or British law, given Virgin's overall corporate headquarters internationally is in the UK), but in the United States at least you can be a sex offender for things that can be surprising. Statutory Rape is one thing that comes up often; one person is 17, the other is 16 (this is using the most common age of consent in the US, there are others), the parents file rape charges. Or, students' least favorite when it comes up around campus is getting drunk at a bar and then urinating on the street; indecent exposure and all that. Plus those things aren't even touching the issue of sexting and how juveniles have been prosecuted and given the sex offender label for having "child pornography" of their boyfriend/girlfriend.