2 Party System Vs. 3+ Party System

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349104608' post='2488785']
That's not how government goes about it. Agree or not, you're paying.

Also, that wouldn't be "taking". That would be trading.
[/quote]
Representative Government works the way people allow it to. The alternative is to be ruled by those who are the lucky sperms for hereditary "royalty", or those able to amass the most power by force.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349105003' post='2488789']
Representative Government works the way people allow it to. The alternative is to be ruled by those who are the lucky sperms for hereditary "royalty", or those able to amass the most power by force.
[/quote]
Representative government works the way those in power want it to work. Did you vote to imprison people for smoking weed? I didn't. Also didn't vote to have laws about the proper length of firearms. Go ahead and tell your representatives they're not going to enforce a law you don't like. Or just disobey it. Buy a fully automatic weapon and explain it to the ATF (they're not elected, and they make regulations that operate as laws. lolchecksandbalances) that the government will work the way you want it to.

You believe it's either/or. Okay.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348857186' post='2487645']
I can't recall names, posting from phone, but I've almost always read the links you and Stern post about the State. Then I would check out the rest of the site and the links on that site or sites. I never really seen the answers to my questions. Perhaps though I missed it. Which anarchists have solid answers to my questions?
[/quote]

You know Howard Stern? Tell him his interviews of Obama supporters are genius. They're actually pretty dang amesome.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1349109684' post='2488810']

You know Howard Stern? Tell him his interviews of Obama supporters are genius. They're actually pretty dang amesome.
[/quote]


Actually he means the great Sternhauser, the most effective Phatmass anarchist we have ever met.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349117512' post='2488841']


Actually he means the great Sternhauser, the most effective Phatmass anarchist we have ever met.
[/quote]
His poison is slow.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349105280' post='2488791']
Representative government works the way those in power want it to work. Did you vote to imprison people for smoking weed? I didn't. Also didn't vote to have laws about the proper length of firearms. Go ahead and tell your representatives they're not going to enforce a law you don't like. Or just disobey it. Buy a fully automatic weapon and explain it to the ATF (they're not elected, and they make regulations that operate as laws. lolchecksandbalances) that the government will work the way you want it to.

You believe it's either/or. Okay.
[/quote]

Ok a representative form of government wouldn't be approved or work under an Anachrist system. I already knew that. My question, one of them, is what form of goverment would work under an Anachrist system?

Edited October 1, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Nihil Obstat]

In my opinion some conceptions of a feudalist society are acceptable to anarchist thought. Personally I call myself a neo-feudal paleolibertarian.

[4588686]

[IMG]http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u443/hilpthop/arnold_zpsa22364a4.jpg[/IMG]

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1349129441' post='2488939']
Ok a representative form of government wouldn't be approved or work under an Anachrist system. I already knew that. My question, one of them, is what form of goverment would work under an Anachrist system?
[/quote]
Anything not initiating aggression.

Yes, feudalism [i]could [/i]work, as Nihil said.

[4588686]

[IMG]http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u443/hilpthop/phoned-trolled-9_zps4c68735d.jpg[/IMG]

[Nihil Obstat]

(We're assuming a lot of things with my feudalism, by the way. It's less of an ideology to me, and more of a created utopia.)

[StMichael]

That exact scenario happened in 1992.

Clinton was elected to office with 42% (Bush 39%, Perot 19%).

The problem with this is is that 58% of the country did not vote for the new President.

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1347314617' post='2481103']
An example.


There is an election and 3 parties run. Party 1, party 2, and party 3.

Party 1 gets 45%
Party 2 gets 40%
Party 3 gets 15%

_____________________

In America, who wins? Party 1 wins with our winner take all method and parties 2 and 3 get NOTHING!

So what happens in between the next election? How is party 2 going to get to its goal of winning? Who do they need to convince to join them so they can win?

If Party 2 can incorporate party 3 into their party platform for the next election, then party 2 wins! And party 3 gets something as well as opposed to nothing. Basically party 3 was bought by party 2.

And the cycle continues. This is why there is no major third party in America. Winner take all leaves no incentive to be content with second place in an election. In other nations, second place may well get you some representation still.



Something to think about. I'm not convinced of other methods being that much better, but I thought it might be worthwhile to think of the pros and cons of such systems.
_____________


edited for clarity.
[/quote]

[Anomaly]

Not all the politicians follow the 'Party Line'. There are "liberal or conservative" thinkers in both major parties, and there are members of 'third' parties in Federal Government as well as State and Local government.
These people still have to appeal to voters to garner their vote. The closer they are to local governemnt, the more they have to be aware of local opinion. It builds up from there. Sure, we have less influence in national elections, especially the Presidency, but our votes are more valuable in local elections. Do you pay attention to who's elected in the City or County Council, school boards, Mayor, etc? What about State representatives? Who are your Congressmen?

Did you print out the ballot for November and start googling all the other persons on it?
In Florida, my sample ballot is 6 pages long, has 12 State Constitution Ammendments up for vote, 2 County Commissioners, US Senator, State Senator, State Representative, Sheriff, Property Appraiser, 3 Justices in State Court, 4 Judges in the State Court of Appeal, School Board, and 2 Soil and Water Conservation positions.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349186935' post='2489201']
Not all the politicians follow the 'Party Line'. There are "liberal or conservative" thinkers in both major parties, and there are members of 'third' parties in Federal Government as well as State and Local government.
These people still have to appeal to voters to garner their vote. The closer they are to local governemnt, the more they have to be aware of local opinion. It builds up from there. Sure, we have less influence in national elections, especially the Presidency, but our votes are more valuable in local elections. Do you pay attention to who's elected in the City or County Council, school boards, Mayor, etc? What about State representatives? Who are your Congressmen?

Did you print out the ballot for November and start googling all the other persons on it?
In Florida, my sample ballot is 6 pages long, has 12 State Constitution Ammendments up for vote, 2 County Commissioners, US Senator, State Senator, State Representative, Sheriff, Property Appraiser, 3 Justices in State Court, 4 Judges in the State Court of Appeal, School Board, and 2 Soil and Water Conservation positions.
[/quote]
I do. But it's not really a comfort to me knowing my City Council member is a libertarian. I have yet to see a City Council stop the ATF.

When they don't get the law they want, they make an end run. This is why we have regulatory agencies. Representation is the essence of cow.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349187235' post='2489202']

I do. But it's not really a comfort to me knowing my City Council member is a libertarian. I have yet to see a City Council stop the ATF.

When they don't get the law they want, they make an end run. This is why we have regulatory agencies. Representation is the essence of cow.
[/quote]No need to be a big cry baby because you don't always get your way.
When you have a group of people, it's fact that it is very unlikely everybody will agree on anything. Majority rules, some win, some loose. Make your case in the public arena.
It's a truism, it's never tyranny if you agree with the Tyrant.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349188035' post='2489203']
No need to be a big cry baby because you don't always get your way.
When you have a group of people, it's fact that it is very unlikely everybody will agree on anything. Majority rules, some win, some loose. Make your case in the public arena.
It's a truism, it's never tyranny if you agree with the Tyrant.
[/quote]
I didn't say there was a need for it.


You just justified gang rape. Congratulations.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349188915' post='2489205']

I didn't say there was a need for it.


You just justified gang rape. Congratulations.
[/quote]I pointed out reality of that there isn't 'Right Think' that is universally agreed upon. Your silly and vague ideas of 'anar-capitalism' only works if you employ violence to impose your opinion on those who would attempt to impose their opinion on you. It solves nothing, it resolves nothing, it is entirely based on coercion by force (wether defending or imposing opinion) instead of seeking some kind of comprimise. It assumes that 'Right Think' exists and can be imposed on others in a selfish matter.

edit to add:

You want to limit the concepts of humans living in a community. A-C does not provide for cooperation, comprimise, self sacrifice, and views humanity as small beings, not capable of a higher thought process then a murder of ravens or a gaggle of geese.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Anomaly

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349190887' post='2489209']
I pointed out reality of that there isn't 'Right Think' that is universally agreed upon. Your silly and vague ideas of 'anar-capitalism' only works if you employ violence to impose your opinion on those who would attempt to impose their opinion on you. It solves nothing, it resolves nothing, it is entirely based on coercion by force (wether defending or imposing opinion) instead of seeking some kind of comprimise. It assumes that 'Right Think' exists and can be imposed on others in a selfish matter.
[/quote]
So forcing someone to stop assaulting me is equivalent to someone assaulting me.

Got it.

What's the compromise? I let you assault me a "little bit"? I give you my lunch money and you don't beat me up? And I'm selfish if I don't let you take my lunch money?

You consider a lack of a central plan by me to be inflicted on everyone to be "vague". You accept the conventional opinion. Okay. So let it go. What I want will never come to be, anyway. The world is fallen. I get that. I'm not going to pretend it's all okay. Nothing will ever be "solved" on this world. I never said it would. Evil will continue to exist.

I've never said people all agree. Truth isn't dependent on you or me agreeing with it.

[quote]You want to limit the concepts of humans living in a community. A-C does not provide for cooperation, comprimise, self sacrifice, and views humanity as small beings, not capable of a higher thought process then a murder of ravens or a gaggle of geese.[/quote]
So rejecting initiation of aggression is limiting the human community.

I don't need you to force me to cooperate, compromise, or sacrifice myself. I've done it without a gun in my ribs more than once. I reject that you have a right to force me to do those things. I do not reject that those things are noble, or that people are capable of them. I also believe you're capable of not constructing such ridiculous strawmen. But I have no right to force you to stop.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Winchester

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349191615' post='2489212']

So forcing someone to stop assaulting me is equivalent to someone assaulting me.

Got it.

What's the compromise? I let you assault me a "little bit"? I give you my lunch money and you don't beat me up? And I'm selfish if I don't let you take my lunch money?

You consider a lack of a central plan by me to be inflicted on everyone to be "vague". You accept the conventional opinion. Okay. So let it go. What I want will never come to be, anyway. The world is fallen. I get that. I'm not going to pretend it's all okay. Nothing will ever be "solved" on this world. I never said it would. Evil will continue to exist.

I've never said people all agree. Truth isn't dependent on you or me agreeing with it.
[/quote]Cheer up. I thought I was negative, but seriously, do some Lavendar Tea or squish ants to improve your mood.

Yes, I'm willing to comprimise on lot's of things to cooperate. A kid took my lunch money. I could punch him in the nose and take it back (as would be my moral right), or I could comprimise and not insist on exercising all my immediately available 'rights' and go to a teacher (or you may call the oppressive behavior athority) and seek for redress. No need for a lunchroom to be an version of "Lord of the Flies".

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349192079' post='2489215']

Yes, I'm willing to comprimise on lot's of things to cooperate. A kid took my lunch money. I could punch him in the nose and take it back (as would be my moral right), or I could comprimise and not insist on exercising all my immediately available 'rights' and go to a teacher (or you may call the oppressive behavior athority) and seek for redress. No need for a lunchroom to be an version of "Lord of the Flies".
[/quote]
I didn't say there was. You're drawing unwarranted conclusions from a very simple premise.