Where Is He Who Set His Holy Spirit

[Papist]

reyb, you know the Trinity is a mystery right? If I explained the Holy Spirit to you and you stated you now understand the Holy Spirit, then there is something flawed in my explanation.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1349268176' post='2489554']
reyb, you know the Trinity is a mystery right? If I explained the Holy Spirit to you and you stated you now understand the Holy Spirit, then there is something flawed in my explanation.
[/quote]

A mystery that unfolds over time, personaly and communaly. The will of the father revealed through the son should not remain a mystery as such. But it is not always communal revelation of the will of the father but personal. <edit> though of course there is communal revelations of the will of the father also,sometimes infalible and sometimes just the right thing for the right time and not nescisarily infallible( scripture of the holy mass sometime last week i think(sorry for the vagueness of my memory lol) states there is a time for crying,and a time for laughing,a time for instructing and a time for listening etc etc [the list goes on for the whole reading.])

GOD bless you .

P.s. this is just hopefully my humble opinion and not to be taken infallibly, if there are any tacos in what i said keep them and throw away the brussel sprouts.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

the holy gospels tell us today that "no one knows the father except the son,and no one knows the father except the son and those the son chooses to reveal him to." In accordance with this scripture one can know the father but only through the son, if the son so chooses to reveal the father. I'm sure the father. through christ the son with the holy spirit is revealed to many christians in different ways at different times, communal revelation and personal revelation of the will of the father for life in the holy spirit.

[reyb]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349012396' post='2488398']
Unsure what your getting at ? If my responses where not adequate than probably i don't know exactly, or you don't understand what i said and i'm unsure how to respond in a manner that you will fully comprhende.
[/quote]


In my previous post I discussed that true witnesses like Moses, Elijah and Paul are all Christians and they received the promised Holy Spirit after God revealed himself to them. This is very different on how Catholics have it. Catholics declared that this same Spirit comes to them when they received their sacraments of confirmation. This Catholics assertion is completely a deception. I know that priest and the entire priesthood truly believe having the blessing of the Holy Spirit but the truth is they are unaware of not having it.

Their declaration is not possible. You cannot have the blessing of the Holy Spirit just because of sacraments or faith of having it. Faith has no power for that Spirit to come because, seeing the fulfilment of the coming of Christ is the only key for that Spirit to manifest and not your faith or belief. It won’t work by just believing in its coming the way you are now doing. Thus, unless you become a witness of this coming, like Apostle Paul, you will never have its blessing. Through this coming also God reveal himself to all witnessess from the very beginning of time when man realized that indeed there is God. Since no man can see God without seeing Christ therefore all of these witnessess have seen Christ who they called in many different names, in different times and in different religious settings like the rock of Israel, the son of Man, the seed of Abraham and the son of David.

Today, Catholics accepts the reality of the existence of the historical Jesus since they see him in the bible in a way they themselves created it. Catholics, through their early church fathers, compiled the bible in a way they wanted it to be by imposing criterion in choosing among many sacred books or letters from different religious groupings at that time. It is not a secret, in early days of Christianity, Catholics and Marcionites are differed in seeing Jesus. Marcionites believe that Jesus is like a ghost while Catholics believe in physical existence of Jesus Christ which now I called historical Jesus. Therefore even before the bible was created. Catholics have their own belief about the Christ of God, and that is, He is the historical Jesus Christ. Catholics compiled many sacred books into one book which we now called the Holy Bible but none these books is written by a Catholic because none of them is a witness of Jesus Christ.

Catholics are now looking to a historical Jesus Christ and all their faith, sacraments, doctrines, teachings, and hope are anchored in this ‘knowledge’. But this ‘knowledge’ did not come from God because none of its propagator has seen Jesus Christ neither it comes from any true Christians like the Holy Prophets or God’s witnesses because, they have seen this coming of Christ long before this idea about historical Jesus emerged in religious history.

This idea about historical Jesus Christ comes solely from Catholics’ early church fathers because it is their belief. And this belief is the one handed down to you.

Catholics are even saying, witnessess like Joah, Elijah, Abraham and Apostle Paul have seen Christ in a very special way in order to cushion the impact in their belief. They are agreeing to the statement without giving up their belief about the coming of historical Jesus. But Jesus Christ has come just once and for all (Romans 6:8-10, Heb 7:26-27,Heb 9:23-28). He did not come many times but just once and He was seen by all witnessess at that one time although witnesses are chosen by God at different times. (Act 17:24-31).

Your early Church fathers did not teach you to seek the truth from God himself but they taught you to accept their belief and creed. They did not teach you to ask God who is His Christ, but taught you to accept their own historical Jesus as the Christ. They did not teach you to listen to your adversaries because they taught you to be united in mind and thought to whatever you are now sharing thus, for more than 2000 years, salvation of God through Christ is still a mystery to all of you. You have a mysterious Church, mysterious Sacraments, mysterious Trinity, mysterious oneness with Christ, mysterious offering, mysterious teachings, mysterious mother of God, everything is mysterious but the most mystery of all is that, you have the courage to claim having the blessing of Holy Spirit, this same spirit who reveals even the deep things of God. (1 Cor 2:10)

I know you believe in the authenticity of the coming of this historical Jesus while I openly express my sentiment against it and boldly saying ‘your church’s fathers preached another Jesus different from the Jesus preached by all God witnesses’.

I am aware too that it is hard for you to listen to me thus, we have this discussion, and my only intention is for you to seek the real One. Again, this is not to insult anyone but to remind you because none of you is seeking Him anymore.

So, let us go back to our discussion.

Suppose it is true that the only Christ of God is the historical Jesus i.e. he is the only mediator between God and man and then he (Jesus) said

[indent=1]‘But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’. (see John 16:6-7).[/indent]

Now if he is speaking only to these last generations (the generations after his coming). So this is my question:

Who is that ‘He’ who set his Holy Spirit among them’ as mentioned in Isa 63:11-12

Then his people recalled the days of old,
the days of Moses and his people —
where is he who brought them through the sea,
with the shepherd of his flock?
Where is he who set
his Holy Spirit among them,
who sent his glorious arm of power
to be at Moses' right hand,

Who is that ’he’ in above verse? Can you please explain it to me?

Edited October 4, 2012 by reyb

[Nihil Obstat]

I propose a moderated debate thread exclusively for Reyb and Tab to duke it out. I think we should settle this discussion once and for all... whatever it's about.

[reyb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349330461' post='2489852']
I propose a moderated debate thread exclusively for Reyb and Tab to duke it out. I think we should settle this discussion once and for all... whatever it's about.
[/quote]

Thank you for the opportunity.

[Nihil Obstat]

There. I have been seconded. Come on moderators, make this happen!

[reyb]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349311346' post='2489765']
A mystery that unfolds over time, personaly and communaly. The will of the father revealed through the son should not remain a mystery as such. But it is not always communal revelation of the will of the father but personal. <edit> though of course there is communal revelations of the will of the father also,sometimes infalible and sometimes just the right thing for the right time and not nescisarily infallible( scripture of the holy mass sometime last week i think(sorry for the vagueness of my memory lol) states there is a time for crying,and a time for laughing,a time for instructing and a time for listening etc etc [the list goes on for the whole reading.])

GOD bless you .

P.s. this is just hopefully my humble opinion and not to be taken infallibly, if there are any tacos in what i said keep them and throw away the brussel sprouts.
[/quote]
[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349315660' post='2489781']
the holy gospels tell us today that "no one knows the father except the son,and no one knows the father except the son and those the son chooses to reveal him to." In accordance with this scripture one can know the father but only through the son, if the son so chooses to reveal the father. I'm sure the father. through christ the son with the holy spirit is revealed to many christians in different ways at different times, communal revelation and personal revelation of the will of the father for life in the holy spirit.
[/quote]


The doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the teaching about salvation history and everything you said above is based on a belief that the historical Jesus is the Christ of God. But none of God’s witnesses testified about it - that the Holy Trinity is a mystery from God.

They said ‘Christ is the mystery of God’ (see Col 2:2) and never about the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. You can see in the scripture that even in Moses time or during the time Apostle Paul from where all of them knew the blessing that comes from the guidance of the Holy Spirit nevertheless, none of them said that God is a triune God or God is the Holy Trinity.

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not a revelation from God. It is just a product of intense studies of religious scholars trying to present an answer to the question, who is God? It is a man’s philosophy rather than God’s revelation and the reason why they call it a ‘mystery’ is because they themselves cannot understood their own formulation.

When there is prophecy, time will come it will be fulfilled and when there is mystery, time will come it will be revealed. But if you call an untruth provisions a mysterious one or a prophecy then, it will never be revealed because, it is not a mystery nor it will be fulfilled because, it is not a prophecy. It will remain an untruth provisions. And that is what is happening to your mysterious doctrine of the Holy Trinity because it is founded on a non-existing historical Jesus.

[KnightofChrist]

[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvt72wcYMN1qgeooe.gif[/img]

[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb6gdtl0GG1ronq2yo2_500.gif[/img]

[4588686]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348968541' post='2488258']
Your dress would look great on my bedroom floor.
[/quote]



You used to say that to me

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

reyb are you either jehovas witness or jewish? Or something else.? It is good that you are seeking the truth. Though the good news is that GOD is close and not a distant GOD we also must consider the mystery of the eternal existance of GOD and that he is far above our interlects at times also. That was what our deacon preached today on the book of JOB.

[reyb]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349399319' post='2490136']
reyb are you either jehovas witness or jewish? Or something else.? It is good that you are seeking the truth. Though the good news is that GOD is close and not a distant GOD we also must consider the mystery of the eternal existance of GOD and that he is far above our interlects at times also. That was what our deacon preached today on the book of JOB.
[/quote]

You can call me 'Christian' if you wish.

Of course, God is not far from us as it is written in Acts 17:27-28

[indent=1]‘God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us’.[/indent]

And it is also impossible for the wisdom of this world or by our own talent and ability meaning, in absence of the Spirit of Christ to know God as it is written in 1 Cor 1:20-21.

[indent=1]‘Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him’.[/indent]

But, did you ever hear the word....’ but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. (See 1 Cor 2:10)’? And that is precisely the point why it was called ‘revelation from God’ because; our earthly talent is not enough to know Him. Now, if it is true that you have the Spirit of Christ. Why then you still speak as if you do not have it?

So again....

Who is that ’he’ in Isa 63:11-12?

Can you (Catholic Scholars) please explain it to me?

Edited October 5, 2012 by reyb

[Groo the Wanderer]

still have no idea what you are trying to say or ask or whatever

can you please explain it to us?

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1349413335' post='2490220']
still have no idea what you are trying to say or ask or whatever

can you please explain it to us?
[/quote]

Now it is obvious why Jesus choose to die. (just like what you said in the other topic).

Maybe you are correct. Maybe he commits a suicide. It is possible that he did it by putting a crown of thorns in his head and then, nailing his two feet by his two hands, and then he nailed his left hand by his right hand (I do not know how he did it because it is a mystery), and then he nailed his right hand by his teeth. (Again, another mystery which is much harder to understand than the first). Then he cried out ‘Father, why have you forsaken me?’ and then, one of the criminal said ‘If you are really the Christ of God saved yourself !’ Then the other criminal said, ‘Don’t you hear, idiot! He is already calling himself?’ and then he died. Now, It is finished because, just like you said He didn't HAVE to die. He chose to (die).

Now, since all priest, pastors, preachers including you must follow Jesus. Why don’t you try to hang yourself too then tell me why you choose to die?

Oh my goodness Groo.

Edited October 5, 2012 by reyb

[Groo the Wanderer]

you know perfectly well that is not what I said in the other thread. you not only dodged my question here, but purposely mischaracterized what I did say. you are not interested in debate or dialogue. you just wanna act like a butt

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1349437380' post='2490287']
you know perfectly well that is not what I said in the other thread. you not only dodged my question here, but purposely mischaracterized what I did say. you are not interested in debate or dialogue. you just wanna act like a butt
[/quote]


Okay. Then it is my mistake.

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1349413335' post='2490220']
still have no idea what you are trying to say or ask or whatever

can you please explain it to us?
[/quote]

I will try to explain it again in a more clearer manner although I already said it many times in this forum. Just give me more time.

[Papist]

[img]http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1329361836346107_animate.gif[/img]

[reyb]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348966774' post='2488249']
Jet plane.
[/quote]
[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1349781530' post='2491591']
[img]http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1329361836346107_animate.gif[/img]
[/quote]
[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1349437380' post='2490287']
you are not interested in debate or dialogue. you just wanna act like a butt
[/quote]
[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1349330327' post='2489850']
So this is my question:

Who is that ‘He’ who set his Holy Spirit among them’ as mentioned in Isa 63:11-12

Then his people recalled the days of old,
the days of Moses and his people —
where is he who brought them through the sea,
with the shepherd of his flock?
[b]Where is he who set[/b]
his Holy Spirit among them,
who sent his glorious arm of power
to be at Moses' right hand'
[/quote]

Again, Who is that ’he’ in above verse? Can you please explain it to me?

Edited October 11, 2012 by reyb

[Papist]

I know nothing of this foolishness of God. But I do see much foolishness in this thread.