Give Me A Reason Why Catholicism Is Preferable To Orthodoxy...

[Mark of the Cross]

Actually I like that Orthodox view on marriage. The Catholic Church approach of no divorce, so we will invent some lame reason to say that it never happened has seemed to make me be inclined to be a little cynical about it. Certainly some marriages are made in heaven, but most are not. People being humans rush in where angels fear to tread. I think it quite reasonable to allow a mistake or even two.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1353006968' post='2510664']
I love Coptic Christians. Some of the kindest people I have ever met. Love 'em.
[/quote]
If you have a Coptic Church close by, they acknowledge that Eastern Orthodox as perfectly Orthodox with a matter of translation back in the day between them. That might be a cool place to hang while you wait for the chance to be closer to an Eastern Orthodox church.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1353014264' post='2510758']
My religion is more loving and tolerant than yours and if you don't agree I will get mad and kill you.
[img]http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/mho_owen/SC20121115-084553.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
James 1:27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.

[Selah]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1353017270' post='2510800']
If you have a Coptic Church close by, they acknowledge that Eastern Orthodox as perfectly Orthodox with a matter of translation back in the day between them. That might be a cool place to hang while you wait for the chance to be closer to an Eastern Orthodox church.
[/quote]


I wish there was! I'd be there in a heartbeat :D

[Ice_nine]

what the title of the thread reminds me of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2kEx5BLoC4

[BG45]

Something I find tends to get a laugh out of everyone, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant:
[img]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/284678_3115253499056_311810150_n.jpg[/img]

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1353017238' post='2510799']
Actually I like that Orthodox view on marriage. The Catholic Church approach of no divorce, so we will invent some lame reason to say that it never happened has seemed to make me be inclined to be a little cynical about it. Certainly some marriages are made in heaven, but most are not. People being humans rush in where angels fear to tread. I think it quite reasonable to allow a mistake or even two.
[/quote]

The thing is Jesus didn't really allow for a mistake or two. If you're going to allow 3 there's no real reason to stop at 4. After all, if a woman just has bad luck and her 3rd husband starts beating her, Orthodoxy won't allow her to divorce him and marry again. She's stuck with him. There is NO flexibility in allowing a 4th try.

In that regard I prefer the Protestant and Catholic approaches, very much so. The Protestants (most of them) go all the way and say "divorce and remarry as many times as you need to, to be happy." The Catholics say "Till death do you part." The Orthodox say "three strikes and you're out" which to me undermines both the need to be happy in your marriage (if the 3rd husband turns out to be a stinker, too bad) and what Jesus taught about marriage (remarrying after divorce is adultery). I'd love to hear the history of how they settled on 3, and not 2 or 4. From what I understand it was adopted under secular imperial pressure.

Another difference I like is the wedding ceremony itself. In Orthodoxy the priest is the one who confects the sacrament, he is the "minister" of the sacrament. Whereas for Romans the bride and groom themselves are the ministers of the sacrament. The Roman approach echoes Jewish traditional theology much more strongly. In an Orthodox wedding ceremony there are no vows - the bridal couple simply appear before the priest and he makes everything happen. I loved being able to say my vows!

[Selah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSqJixodXY

[vee]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352928017' post='2510004']
But the Roman Catholic Church IS in communion with the catholic Church founded by Christ!


[/quote]

I never said it wasnt. There are around 20 rites that are part of the Catholic Church the Roman/ Latin rite being one of them. Some Eastern rites are and some arent.
.

[vee]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1353029585' post='2510939']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSqJixodXY[/media]
[/quote]


its pretty but russian orthodox arent in union with the pope so they need to fix that

[vee]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352933027' post='2510057']
Light and truth is correct. Many Catholics place the Catholic Church over Christ. The Church that Christ founded is [b]Christianity.[/b] If we are going to argue that a particular denomination is the true Church because it was first, then Judaism is the true church. Jesus religion is a doctrine of Christianity that he taught and he said he would build that on Peter. But what he meant was all those who taught his doctrine are the successors of Peter. The Roman Church now acknowledges that all those who live a Christian life but in ignorance of Jesus through not being taught or by being deceived are members of the catholic Church. The other sheep not of this fold even include other religions and non religions. Cardinal George Pell stated on Q&A that atheists have the possibility of salvation. Do you really think the God of love will reject one who loves him in their heart but rejects him in mind due to disinformation/brain washing ?
[/quote]

[Selah]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1353030271' post='2510962']


its pretty but russian orthodox arent in union with the pope so they need to fix that
[/quote]

Okay. When Rome is ready to reunite with Constantinople, give them a call

[vee]

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1353030165' post='2510957']I never said it wasnt. There are around 20 rites that are part of the Catholic Church the Roman/ Latin rite being one of them. Some Eastern rites are and some arent.[/quote]
What mean ye?

[vee]

hold on i need to look up terminology

[Nihil Obstat]

Sui juris is the term you want.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1353029585' post='2510939']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSqJixodXY[/media]
[/quote]

Yah, see it's pretty (except for the groom's chest hair hehe). I imagine in weddings in Italy you'll see some manly hair too

In ancient Orthodox countries I think it's possible for the crowning to be done very beautifully, sadly from the weddings I've been to in the USA the crowns can look kinda tacky (like you are prom king and queen). Surely a real antique crown that is the right size wouldn't have that effect but... it can be cheesy especially if the crown that is used doesn't really fit and it just perches there on the tippy top of the bride's head or the groom's head. Done well it's beautiful, but done poorly it can look like a Barbie Tiara.

And again, there are no vows. It's something that is done "to" the couple by the priest, the couple are not the ministers of the sacrament. As a Catholic it's so amazing to be a minister of sacramental grace to my husband!! Something that changes his soul forever. That's an experience Orthodox brides never get to have unfortunately. Unfortunately, that is, from my POV.

Then there's how holy Communion is handled. For the Orthodox it's given to infants (which is lovely) but I treasured being able to make my first holy Communion at a time when I understood what was happening to me. It was a huge moment and a beautiful memory which children who are brought up Orthodox also don't get to experience (I mean the experience of being able to remember receiving for the first time). I loved dressing in a white dress, little white gloves and a veil. I loved going up to receive along with my sister and my classmates. I will treasure that memory forever. As a grown up I enjoy seeing the class of 8 year olds questioned at Mass and they answer very solemnly about how they are going to receive the Host and it's truly Jesus, body and blood, soul and divinity.

Similarly for confirmation/chrismation- I loved the option to choose a patron saint and taking their name. If you're brought up Orthodox you don't get to do that, you're confirmed as an infant. There HAS to be a saint's name somewhere in there, too, when you are baptized as a baby, they're very rigid about that, and I believe it has to be a pre-schism saint, too. You can't name your son Hunter Riley or your daughter Ashley Gemma or Derek or Fiona or things like that.

There's basically a list of baby names you have to pick from (granted it's a looooong list).

Whereas in Catholicism it's traditional to choose a saint's name for your baby but it's not REQUIRED to name them after a saint in order to baptize your child.There's just so much more flexibility and adaptability in the Roman church.

As a grown up if you convert to Orthodoxy, my understanding is if your name isn't biblical or a saint's (like your name is Mackenzie or something) you HAVE to pick a new name - and then traditionally you're supposed to make everyone call you by it! Like at work, your friends.

I love how there are so many different types of religious orders in the Western lung of the church - to me it really shows the Holy Spirit working overtime inspiring people to serve God in so many different ways, responding and adapting their ministries to the needs of the times. While still maintaining the monastic tradition, too. The Romans just have so much more diversity and the multiplicity of types of religious orders are an expression of that.

Again I really do appreciate the eastern lung of Christianity! It's beautiful, rich and meaningful and precious to God, but these are just a few of the reasons why I would never convert to Orthodoxy (and for some of them, it's why I wouldn't join an eastern rite Catholic church). I have thought about it in the past but ultimately rejected it. A few are deep reasons and others are not so deep

[Maggyie]

One other thing, Eucharistic Adoration. This is the one thing that actually convinced me Orthodoxy was not the way to go. Adoration is just not a practice in the Eastern tradition and I love it so much! it's an incredible privilege to spend time with Jesus in this way. I would be soooo sad if I never got to go to Adoration anymore

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1353030812' post='2510977']

[/quote]
Is that movementarian opinion? You may keep it!

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1353031414' post='2511000']
hold on i need to look up terminology
[/quote]
You need to look up Christianity!

Edited November 16, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1353028043' post='2510919']
The thing is Jesus didn't really allow for a mistake or two. If you're going to allow 3 there's no real reason to stop at 4. After all, if a woman just has bad luck and her 3rd husband starts beating her, Orthodoxy won't allow her to divorce him and marry again. She's stuck with him. There is NO flexibility in allowing a 4th try.

In that regard I prefer the Protestant and Catholic approaches, very much so. The Protestants (most of them) go all the way and say "divorce and remarry as many times as you need to, to be happy." The Catholics say "Till death do you part." The Orthodox say "three strikes and you're out" which to me undermines both the need to be happy in your marriage (if the 3rd husband turns out to be a stinker, too bad) and what Jesus taught about marriage (remarrying after divorce is adultery). I'd love to hear the history of how they settled on 3, and not 2 or 4. From what I understand it was adopted under secular imperial pressure.

Another difference I like is the wedding ceremony itself. In Orthodoxy the priest is the one who confects the sacrament, he is the "minister" of the sacrament. Whereas for Romans the bride and groom themselves are the ministers of the sacrament. The Roman approach echoes Jewish traditional theology much more strongly. In an Orthodox wedding ceremony there are no vows - the bridal couple simply appear before the priest and he makes everything happen. I loved being able to say my vows!
[/quote]
Yes I know! It's a problem! The problem with that protestant idea is that it wrecks too many children's lives. Jesus has best answer! One of our RCIA candidates had to go through the pain of an annulment in order to become a Catholic. She was told in advance not to worry that it would happen. Seemed rather pointless and as far as I know Jesus taught no divorce in spite of what Moses had said but doesn't reject those that have from following him.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Mark of the Cross