My Homily If I Were A Saying The Mass This Week.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1351021732' post='2496429']


That's interesting. Because before you walked into the bank and had to make that choice, Robber A promised to do just that to everybody in the bank for like 20 years. I bet he's telling the truth. He doesn't have a reason to lie.
[/quote]
Do people do that? Just [i]lie[/i] to people?

[img]http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/You+really+think+someone+would+do+that+.+Just+go+on_981b71_3201562.jpg[/img]

[MIKolbe]

[quote]
That's why we have legalized abortion in the first place. Do you think it is more or less likely there will be any hope of restricting abortion with a Democrat president and Democrats in power? As small as the possibility may be, at least there is some hope that Republicans may restrict abortion? The President as a person has limited power, the power lays mostly with the political party that derives additional power when it holds the Presidency.
[/quote]

Why would I vote for someone with the small (infinitessially small..near-unexistingly small) prossibility he would attempt, let alone do anything other than the other popular candidates, when I could vote for someone with a big possibilty he would attempt, let alone do anything other than the popular candidates?

[quote]
Abortion is not the equivalent of torture, just as there is a distinct difference between cutting a throat or stabbing them.
[/quote]

Torture, normally, doesn’t result in death. When it does, it’s called murder. The Church has spoken out against torture, as being against the sanctity of life. Granted, I understand where you are coming from that this life issue may or may not carry as much weight as it might have in the past. (If I am remembering what you have shared in the past; if not, I certainly do not mean to misrepresent you)

[quote]Has the Democratic party ever proposed a bill to limit abortion? Has the Rebublican party ever proposed a bill to limit abortion? Which party (if any) ever proposed a bill to put restrictions on abortion? Which party (if any) provided more support? If a bill was passed, what was the Party affiliation of a President who may or may not have vetoed it? Which party (if any) sought to limit restrictions? If a bill passed, what was the Party affiliation of the majority of supporting over-ruling the veto? If it was challenged in the Supreme Court, which Party nominated the Judges who ruled to uphold it, or ruled against it? [/quote]

If this party is doing such a great job, why has nothing substancial changed? I’ll tell you why. People are more concerned about their party then about real human beings being killed in the womb. Sorry if that is polarizing. They will clutch to the hope of [i]“Golly-gee I’m really gonna do something about that, Mr. Hernandez, but you GOTTA elect me. The other guy will be sooo horrible!! Trust me! I promise! I will, as my only campaign promise, do something about this!! I needed to make some tough decisions in the past, and I’m sorry about that, I really am..politics is a dog eat dog profession sometimes…. but let’s talk about the future!![/i]

But nothing changes. People compromise their morals: allowing, voting for (and in some cases, advocating) what they know is wrong, just for the sake of the party….Letting themselves be duped over and over again.

Then, if they dare think, “this party is all talk…they’ve done nothing...they always promise they will and never do, this heck with this!”, they get to be labeled as wanting a ‘perfect candidate’, being ‘utopian’, ‘selfish’, ‘really helping the other guy win”. And.. well.. the party knows this, and has learned to ‘fiddle the tune’ every election cycle. And we all fall in line like good little subjects. Not only has the party learned to fiddle, they now know it’s ok not to be prolife..heck..isn’t political life easier when you just put up the façade, but really don’t care and use it as a bargaining chip for that one big bill on the hill? Sure it is! And well, who else we gonna vote for? Where else are we gonna go? As long as the other guys LOVES abortion, they’ll just need to say they kinda don’t like it. We’ll eat it up!!!! And then…sell us off down the road as a politcal sacrifice to mammon. Next election cycle: wash, rinse, repeat.

It’s akin to a battered wife needing to understand that her husband was just angry that day! That’s why he hit her!! [i]Give him another chance, baby.. he’ll get better. He totally just flipped out after a hard long day at work, and he’ll never do it again.. Plus, couldn’t you’ve been a little more understanding when he has rough days? Where you gonna go if you leave, woman? Come on! He gives you a house, a nice car, and a good life. If you’re looking for Mr. Perfect, you ain’t never gonna find him, gurl. You know if you leave, you lose all that you have. It may not be perfect, but hey… in reality.. it’s all you got. Don’t be the one responsible for wrecking your marriage![/i]

And then somehow, a week or 2 later, her face seems to smash itself against his fist...and it starts again....

[quote]
It's not 'mental gynastics' on a Catholic Board. Here's a thought provoking article providing a look at the realities of American Politics and their effect on the efforts to enact the Partial Birth Abortion Ban that has taken decades: [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20030331_partial-birth-abortion_en.html"]http://www.vatican.v...bortion_en.html[/url]
[/quote]

I have not read the info on the link yet, but I will. Thanks for reading this, Anamoly. We might not always agree, but I hope to always see/understand where you are coming from. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to dialouge/read.

[Lil Red]

[img]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/14327_424269107632148_1277049292_n.jpg[/img]

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351018873' post='2496405']
I prefer to call it prioritizing evil.

If I walk into a bank that is being robbed, and there are two masked robbers, and robber B is shooting hostages, and robber A is doing nothing to stop the shooting, I'm not gonna go tackle robber A. That's dumb.
[/quote]
tell me you didn't come up with that all by yourself...

i love you.

lololol

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1351003310' post='2496295']
Anyway, it's not like me internet debating will change anyone's mind, but... Yeah.
[/quote]

That's not particularly true. Aloysius and Eagle_Eye turned me into a Ron Paul supporter through their debating. The wheels were already set in motion by my sister and our friend in college, but they sealed the deal for me and finalized what was going on in my mind intellectually.

[Aloysius]

FutureCarmeliteClaire said that HER internet debating wouldn't change anyone's mind. Obviously mine would. -_-

[dUSt]

Attention Obama supporters (i.e. - those voting for someone other than Romney)

The same arguments were used to justify not voting for McCain. Obama was elected. Two more pro-abortion judges were named to the supreme court.

I'll vote against the guy who did that. But thanks. You and your conscience have fun with all that.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1351022710' post='2496438']
Why would I vote for someone with the small (infinitessially small..near-unexistingly small) prossibility he would attempt, let alone do anything other than the other popular candidates, when I could vote for someone with a big possibilty he would attempt, let alone do anything other than the popular candidates? [/quote]Because there is always hope if you keep making the most of limited choices and limited opportunities.

[quote]Torture, normally, doesn’t result in death. When it does, it’s called murder. The Church has spoken out against torture, as being against the sanctity of life. Granted, I understand where you are coming from that this life issue may or may not carry as much weight as it might have in the past. (If I am remembering what you have shared in the past; if not, I certainly do not mean to misrepresent you)[/quote]It's common sense recognition of the effect of two acts. I agree with the Church's assessment that murder and torture are both bad, but one is worse than the other.

[quote]If this party is doing such a great job, why has nothing substancial changed? I’ll tell you why. People are more concerned about their party then about real human beings being killed in the womb. Sorry if that is polarizing. They will clutch to the hope of [i]“Golly-gee I’m really gonna do something about that, Mr. Hernandez, but you GOTTA elect me. The other guy will be sooo horrible!! Trust me! I promise! I will, as my only campaign promise, do something about this!! I needed to make some tough decisions in the past, and I’m sorry about that, I really am..politics is a dog eat dog profession sometimes…. but let’s talk about the future!![/i]

But nothing changes. People compromise their morals: allowing, voting for (and in some cases, advocating) what they know is wrong, just for the sake of the party….Letting themselves be duped over and over again.[/quote]I'll just have to play the 'age and experience' card. I've been voting and paying attention to politics since the 70's. I may be atheist, but my personal belief system values all human life as equally worthy (unless we act against others and are culpable for our offense). I've seen the battle to even get the Partial Birth Abortion Ban passed, even as crippled as it finally was. At least it is movement in the right direction. I've seen which political parties have supported or fought against restrictions on abortion. For me personally, (and I believe the Catholic Church has been clear on this), abortion is the greatest evil because it is the murder of completely innocent lives. I have no moral quandry when given the choice between Switch A or Switch B where Switch A will definitely drop a bomb on an orphanage filled with 100,000 babies, or Switch B, that "may" drop a bomb on the same orphanage, with the Given, that one of the two Switches will be flipped, based on votes, regardless of my participation or not. If I don't vote, claiming a higer moral standard, I effectively did nothing to attempt to mitigate the evil that WILL occur. That vote is going to happen next month, no matter what. The opportunity to work to change the circumstances will come up again in the future as we Americans continually have the opportunity to vote and influence the next A vs B choice.

[quote]Then, if they dare think, “this party is all talk…they’ve done nothing...they always promise they will and never do, this heck with this!”, they get to be labeled as wanting a ‘perfect candidate’, being ‘utopian’, ‘selfish’, ‘really helping the other guy win”. And.. well.. the party knows this, and has learned to ‘fiddle the tune’ every election cycle. And we all fall in line like good little subjects. Not only has the party learned to fiddle, they now know it’s ok not to be prolife..heck..isn’t political life easier when you just put up the façade, but really don’t care and use it as a bargaining chip for that one big bill on the hill? Sure it is! And well, who else we gonna vote for? Where else are we gonna go? As long as the other guys LOVES abortion, they’ll just need to say they kinda don’t like it. We’ll eat it up!!!! And then…sell us off down the road as a politcal sacrifice to mammon. Next election cycle: wash, rinse, repeat.[/quote]I look at it as a longer struggle, every vote is a battle, many battles before the war is over. I personally see changes over a long period of time. Roe v Wade was passed when I was a teen. It took 30 years to put some restrictions on Abortion, even as weak as it is. Public opinion has been pretty steady in it's support for abortion, though it peaked in the 90's. Recently support is heading downwards. Pragmatically, do a bit of research to see which political party is more supportive of unlimited abortion. Spoiler: Democrats are much more supportive of easy availability. You can choose your source. Google is free.

I'll skip your analogy.

[quote]I have not read the info on the link yet, but I will. Thanks for reading this, Anamoly. We might not always agree, but I hope to always see/understand where you are coming from. I appreciate the time you’ve taken to dialouge/read.
[/quote]Please take a look at it. It's just a brief Catholic commentary of the the political actions that occured to get the PBAB passed.

My opinion is my pragmatic evaluation that making the choice to not affect the outcome, or to make a meaningless choice makes me culpable of supporting an evil since I chose to not make the most of the limited opportunity or power I have.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]easy analysis:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]1. either Romney or Obama WILL win the election[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]2. a vote for neither is the same as a vote for Obama[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]3. neither is truly pro life, but Romney is closer, hence an improvement[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]4. SO WHY THE FLOOPY WOULD YOU THROW AWAY A CHANCE AT EVEN A LITTLE IMPROVEMENT BY VOTING FOR SOMEONE YOU KNOW CANNOT WIN??!?![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]that's like not praying in front of the abortion clinic because you might only save 1 life out of the 50 that day. save the 1 when you can for pete's sakes![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]REALLY PHOLKS!?!?!?![/font][/color]

[Nihil Obstat]

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351005706' post='2496300']
It will never exist. We are on earth, not in heaven.
We should work with what we have to make a difference rather than being non-factors in a fantasy world political statement.


And forgive my bluntness. It is a flaw of mine. I speak plainly around friends and family and I consider all of you my family.
[/quote]


I blame fantasy books and movies.

[Ice_nine]

[mod]For profanity. - dUSt[/mod]

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1351050297' post='2496774']
[mod]For profanity. - dUSt[/mod]
[/quote]
God love you, Ice.

[Ice_nine]

the bold red type makes it seem so much more srs.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1351045057' post='2496691']
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]easy analysis:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]1. either Romney or Obama WILL win the election[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]2. a vote for neither is the same as a vote for Obama[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]3. neither is truly pro life, but Romney is closer, hence an improvement[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]4. SO WHY THE FLOOPY WOULD YOU THROW AWAY A CHANCE AT EVEN A LITTLE IMPROVEMENT BY VOTING FOR SOMEONE YOU KNOW CANNOT WIN??!?![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]that's like not praying in front of the abortion clinic because you might only save 1 life out of the 50 that day. save the 1 when you can for pete's sakes![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]REALLY PHOLKS!?!?!?![/font][/color]
[/quote]
but as I illustrate in the other thread, Romney is NOT better than Obama. For me, on every single issue he's not better and on some issues he might actually be worse. There is NO comparison between voting for Romney and praying outside an abortion clinic.

Voting for Romney in the hopes that he'll slightly help the pro-life movement is more like donating to a pro-choice protest group that you think will be slightly less effective at supporting abortion over the other pro-choice protest group.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351025901' post='2496456']
Attention Obama supporters (i.e. - those voting for someone other than Romney)

The same arguments were used to justify not voting for McCain. Obama was elected. Two more pro-abortion judges were named to the supreme court.

I'll vote against the guy who did that. But thanks. You and your conscience have fun with all that.
[/quote]
[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1351027368' post='2496478']
Because there is always hope if you keep making the most of limited choices and limited opportunities.

It's common sense recognition of the effect of two acts. I agree with the Church's assessment that murder and torture are both bad, but one is worse than the other.

I'll just have to play the 'age and experience' card. I've been voting and paying attention to politics since the 70's. I may be atheist, but my personal belief system values all human life as equally worthy (unless we act against others and are culpable for our offense). I've seen the battle to even get the Partial Birth Abortion Ban passed, even as crippled as it finally was. At least it is movement in the right direction. I've seen which political parties have supported or fought against restrictions on abortion. For me personally, (and I believe the Catholic Church has been clear on this), abortion is the greatest evil because it is the murder of completely innocent lives. I have no moral quandry when given the choice between Switch A or Switch B where Switch A will definitely drop a bomb on an orphanage filled with 100,000 babies, or Switch B, that "may" drop a bomb on the same orphanage, with the Given, that one of the two Switches will be flipped, based on votes, regardless of my participation or not. If I don't vote, claiming a higer moral standard, I effectively did nothing to attempt to mitigate the evil that WILL occur. That vote is going to happen next month, no matter what. The opportunity to work to change the circumstances will come up again in the future as we Americans continually have the opportunity to vote and influence the next A vs B choice.

I look at it as a longer struggle, every vote is a battle, many battles before the war is over. I personally see changes over a long period of time. Roe v Wade was passed when I was a teen. It took 30 years to put some restrictions on Abortion, even as weak as it is. Public opinion has been pretty steady in it's support for abortion, though it peaked in the 90's. Recently support is heading downwards. Pragmatically, do a bit of research to see which political party is more supportive of unlimited abortion. Spoiler: Democrats are much more supportive of easy availability. You can choose your source. Google is free.

I'll skip your analogy.

Please take a look at it. It's just a brief Catholic commentary of the the political actions that occured to get the PBAB passed.

My opinion is my pragmatic evaluation that making the choice to not affect the outcome, or to make a meaningless choice makes me culpable of supporting an evil since I chose to not make the most of the limited opportunity or power I have.
[/quote]
[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1351045057' post='2496691']
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']easy analysis:[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']1. either Romney or Obama WILL win the election[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']2. a vote for neither is the same as a vote for Obama[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']3. neither is truly pro life, but Romney is closer, hence an improvement[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']4. SO WHY THE FLOOPY WOULD YOU THROW AWAY A CHANCE AT EVEN A LITTLE IMPROVEMENT BY VOTING FOR SOMEONE YOU KNOW CANNOT WIN??!?![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']that's like not praying in front of the abortion clinic because you might only save 1 life out of the 50 that day. save the 1 when you can for pete's sakes![/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif']REALLY PHOLKS!?!?!?![/font][/color]
[/quote]

It's times like this that I miss the ability to give "props" to posts...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1351121586' post='2497198']
It's times like this that I miss the ability to give "props" to posts...
[/quote]
It is times like this that I do not care.