Confessions Of An Idol Worshiper

[Katholikos]

[color=red]"I was raised a good portion of my childhood in Mexico, and right across the street from my grandmother's house is a catholic church...and man...I don't think I ever heard Christ mentioned once the number of times I went.[/color]

[color=red]it was ALL the virgen of guadlupe and juan diego and this idol and the other...NEVER CHRIST...ever." Quote from Lumberjack[/color]

[b][i]Idol (Webster)[/i][/b]
[i]1. an image or other material object representing a diety and worshipped as such. 2. (in the Bible) a diety other than God.
[/i]

I confess that one of my favorite things about being a Catholic is that I can freely worship idols. I no longer have to sneak around and worship a hunk of painted plaster, but I can do it openly. It means a lot to me to be able to worship the God who created the universe in some "concrete" way (pun intended). The Incarnation means that God Himself came to earth, and those clever Catholics have captured Him inside chunks of plaster, and I'm lucky enough to have one of them. So He can't get away. He's always right there when I need Him. I spend hours on my knees worshipping and lighting candles and burning incense to my beloved idol.

There's a picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe in my bedroom with my prie-dieu (kneeling bench) in front of it, and I can kneel there and worship that piece of cardboard and paint to my heart's content. I know that piece of paper is the saint herself, and don't you try to tell me any different. And Catholics worship saints, don'tchaknow? I know Catholics claim they don't worship idols or saints or the Blessed Virgin, but come on y'all, 'fess up, admit it.

Bye now. I've gotta get back to my idols. A person can never have too many idols or worship them too much.


(Thanks to former Evangelical, Mark Shea, author of [i]By What Authority[/i], for the idea.)



JMJ, Likos

[Brother Adam]

The only true valid problem would lie in the Eucharist. If Christ is not present in the Eucharist, then, and only then, can Protestants claim Catholics idol worshippers.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='May 21 2004, 04:34 PM'] The only true valid problem would lie in the Eucharist. If Christ is not present in the Eucharist, then, and only then, can Protestants claim Catholics idol worshippers. [/quote]
I don't know about that. For that to be true the Catholic would have to believe that they are worshipping a piece of bread, wouldn't they? The Catholic would have to believe that they were worshipping something other than the One True God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='May 21 2004, 06:11 PM'] [color=red]"I was raised a good portion of my childhood in Mexico, and right across the street from my grandmother's house is a catholic church...and man...I don't think I ever heard Christ mentioned once the number of times I went.[/color]

[color=red]it was ALL the virgen of guadlupe and juan diego and this idol and the other...NEVER CHRIST...ever." Quote from Lumberjack[/color]

[b][i]Idol (Webster)[/i][/b]
[i]1. an image or other material object representing a diety and worshipped as such. 2. (in the Bible) a diety other than God.
[/i]

I confess that one of my favorite things about being a Catholic is that I can freely worship idols. I no longer have to sneak around and worship a hunk of painted plaster, but I can do it openly. It means a lot to me to be able to worship the God who created the universe in some "concrete" way (pun intended). The Incarnation means that God Himself came to earth, and those clever Catholics have captured Him inside chunks of plaster, and I'm lucky enough to have one of them. So He can't get away. He's always right there when I need Him. I spend hours on my knees worshipping and lighting candles and burning incense to my beloved idol.

There's a picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe in my bedroom with my prie-dieu (kneeling bench) in front of it, and I can kneel there and worship that piece of cardboard and paint to my heart's content. I know that piece of paper is the saint herself, and don't you try to tell me any different. And Catholics worship saints, don'tchaknow? I know Catholics claim they don't worship idols or saints or the Blessed Virgin, but come on y'all, 'fess up, admit it.

Bye now. I've gotta get back to my idols. A person can never have too many idols or worship them too much.


(Thanks to former Evangelical, Mark Shea, author of [i]By What Authority[/i], for the idea.)



JMJ, Likos [/quote]
That was an amazing thread

[phatcatholic]

lumberjack..............my invitation still stands if you would like a private debate on the saints, statues, and relics.

just let me know bro,
phatcatholic

[TheMissionary]

I was reading that quote from lumberjack and it struck me wasn't he listening to the prayers of the Mass and to the Gospel, because Jesus is Mentioned a lot there, all the time in fact. Hmmmm Just a thought

[mulls]

"I confess to God and Lumberjack"



what about a priest?

[Livin_the_MASS]

God does His work through the priest. So I choose the priest because that is where your sins are forgiven (absolved).

The priest acts in the "Person of Christ" meaning Christ is using the priest to do His work.

LJ can't do that. Just telling God your sorry doesn't do it either. God gave us the Sacraments to be close to us, to become one with us to make it personal.

Pax
Jason

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 21 2004, 07:42 PM']"I confess to God and Lumberjack"



what about a priest?[/quote]


For anyone guilty of real sins, needing absolution, the normative way Christ arranged for his followers to receive forgiveness is through the Sacrament of Penance (John 20:19-23). However, that does not limit God's forgiveness. God can forgive apart from the Sacrament, if the penitent is sincere, asks for forgiveness, and if He should so choose. But the sure and certain way -- the promised way -- is through Confession (Penance) when Christ speaks through His priest and says, "I absolve you. . ."

"If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Highly recommended:

[i]Lord, Have Mercy, The Healing Power of Confession,[/i] by Scott Hahn, Ph.D.
(2003)

[i]Swear to God, The Promise and Power of the Sacraments[/i], by Scott Hahn, Ph.D. (2004) - just released May 18.

As you may know, Dr. Hahn was formerly a Presbyterian bible scholar, theologian, and pastor.

JMJ Likos

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='dUSt' date='May 21 2004, 05:53 PM'] I don't know about that. For that to be true the Catholic would have to believe that they are worshipping a piece of bread, wouldn't they? The Catholic would have to believe that they were worshipping something other than the One True God. [/quote]
If Christ was not present in the Eucharist you would be worshipping "nothing". Because Christ isn't there. So you'd be trying to worship God where he is not. And venerating a piece of bread would be silly.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]Likos says:[/b]
Thanks to former Evangelical, Mark Shea,[/quote]

I got a book by him called [b]"Making Senses Out of Scripture. . . Reading the Bible as the First Christans Did."[/b] By: Mark P. Shea

Awesome book, I won't talk about it here though it would get to far off subject.

God Bless
Jason

[the lumberjack]

awesome thread?

pretty sarcastic and mean if you ask me.

but hey, whatever.

I can dish it, and I can take it.

quack quack pal, freakin quack.

[KennC]

[quote]And venerating a piece of bread would be silly.[/quote]
"This is my body", ... says the Lord as practical joker.

Peace of Christ, Ken

[PedroX]

Lumberjack,

C'mom was referring to the thread that was on Mark Shea's blog. It was a venting thread where Catholics were sarcastic about all the misperceptions Protestants have about us. Don't take it personally, it wasn't meant to be.

peace...

[P3chrmd]

I get so sick and tired when some protestants just KNOW...I mean they don't think they know...they really KNOW! that we catholics worship statues and art! OH PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK! Sure we are very big on art and statues becasue they remind us of Christ and the life that we should be living! I suppose on those terms we could also say that protestants worship music...raising their hands during the songs...getting on their knees! Well...what would they say to that if i made such a claim...OH NO WE DON'T THATS CRAZY TALK! Well we catholics say the same thing when you claim that we worship statues...NEWS FLASH: Statues and Music are both ART...one is just abstract and the other is concrete! NO WORSHIP TO ANY ARTWORK! So protestants get off of your high horse!

In Christ through Mary,
Brandon V.

[Katholikos]

In defense of Cmom, here's the blog she was referring to as "amazing."

QUOTE [someone posted this on Mark Shea's blog]
When I converted to Catholicism, it was the statue worship that appealed to me the most, but banner worship has its appeal as well. Historians have been able to show that pagans also worshipped primitive banners so either one has authentic Catholic-pagan connections.

I also liked that I didn't have to read the Bible any more and that I would have to earn my way to Heaven. Besides that, I really appreciated the fact that I could check my brain at the door and blindly follow the leaders.

A really cool part of Catholicism is that now I can commit all of my favorite sins and then go to Confession right before I go out and do them again!! Actually, while I was Protestant, I guess I did that too, but without the Confession part. But sitting in that little room just feels so holy, especially with the statues nearby.

Then at Mass I usually get to listen to my favorite song, "On Eagles Wings" though I must admit I don't like it now as much as the first 67,000 times I heard it. The cannibalism aspect, I have to admit, grosses me out a little, but I comfort myself by knowing that it is a false doctrine anyway and so it is only really bread.

[Mark Shea added:]

I know exactly how you feel. For me, it's the chance to worship Mary and adore her as the Creator of Almighty God that is so appealing. And, of course, I really love knowing that salvation is completely up to me and my righteousness apart from the grace of God. Also, the deep pride I feel in the Church's many Inquisitors, cold-blooded killers, persecutors, perverts and criminals was a big draw. Some people think this is a problem, but I frankly have no idea what they are talking about. I am aware of no commands of God against these things because, of course, I never read the Bible.

Which reminds me: I just *love* adding absurd human traditions, myths and legends to the pure word of God. Also, I get a real kick out of enslaving myself to little rules and regulations so as to chain myself with fear and cut myself off from the love of God.

If *you're* an ignorant benighted Catholic like me, feel free to add your favorite spiritually crippling legend, lie, or practice to the pool. The more the merrier! That's what makes enslavement to the traditions of men and blindness to the saving gospel of Jesus Christ fun!
posted by Mark Shea

Edited May 23, 2004 by Katholikos

[mulls]

sadly funny

[phatcatholic]

its sad b/c those ridiculous claims are actually made about us.....

[Quietfire]

Do we have that link posted here on PM to the Mark Shea blog. I thought I saw it but maybe we could put it here as well, so I can check it out.

Peace.

[Anna]

This thread is absolutely rich. What a keeper. How did I ever miss it?

Yes, Lumberjack, you do dish it out. In such heaping wheelbarrow loads that one needs hip waders to get through it all. Your commentary about the Catholic Church during your childhood NEVER ONCE, NOT EVER mentioning Jesus Christ is just another one of your blatant exaggerations.

Catholics worship in a formal liturgical function called The MASS. Mass is celebrated not once a week, but daily, and in many parishes, several times a day.

In the Mass, we re-present Christ's great Sacrifice on Calvary to the Heavenly Father in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. We do not re-crucify Jesus, He did that once for all...What we do is present this action, perpetuated through time, to God the Father, in the way Christ instructed the Apostles to do so.

Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church. All worship is directed to God. Love and honor of Christ's Mother is a beautiful devotion, but it isn't our form of worship.

Even during Marian devotions, Christ is not omitted. For if Mary had not been chosen by God to be Christ's Mother, she'd be nothing at all to us Catholics.

Yet, God did choose her, to be His Own Mother, and to be Our Mother.

How can we not love her?

And how can we possibly get you to understand how absurd your accusations are?

If you were able to go back to that Church right now and listen, really listen, you would be amazed at the many, many times Jesus -- and the Father, and the Holy Spirit -- are called upon with great adoration: adoration which is reserved for God alone.

Pax Christi. <><