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Rosa immaculata

Franciscan Sisters Of The Immaculate

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Rosa immaculata
Ave Maria!

Praise be Jesus Christ!
Hi everybody! I introduce myself as I am a new member of this wonderful forum; I am a French young girl (22 years old), and since two years I am more and more attracted by religious life; I am beginning a discernement this year, and you have got it, my favourite Order is the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate (and I know I am not alone on this forum!); I am interested in the contemplative branch (enclosed, and with the ancient rite!!! God knows how to seduce his future brides!), and I want to become a "Rosa immaculata" (I am not yet, ahaha:) ) on the path of the Immaculate and the Cross. So if someone has discerned with this Order, I am interested by his own experience! Unfortunately, this Order is very unknown in France, and thanks to this forum, I have known many marvellous Orders, orthodox and wearing the Holy habit of life consecrated to God, our Only Joy!!
If someone needs information about these sisters, I can tell him what I know, but it comes from internet...
I love the Poor Clares Colettines too!

P. S. Sorry for my mistakes, I don't speak English fluently!

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Gemma
Welcome

I was under the impression that the FI actually had two cloistered groups--former active sisters who had retired to the cloister, and the actual Poor Clares of the Immaculate.

I have a yahoo listserv for the UK and Europe. I can give the URL if interested.

Blessings,
Gemma

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Chiquitunga
Ave Maria!

Really quick, I wanted to say that I have heard from a few different sources (an FI Friar, online, a girl who discerned with the Poor Clares of the Immaculate) that to join the contemplative branch of the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate, one first goes through formation to become an active Sister and then it is discerned if God is really calling this Sister to live a wholly contemplative life. So there would be no guarantee that you could enter the enclosed branch. Also I heard that the Sisters in the wholly contemplative Houses can be asked to leave at any time and enter back into the active/contemplative life of the ordinary FI Sisters.

So if you are really sure God is calling you to the cloister, I would recommend discerning directly with the Clarisse dell'Immacolata in Italy. I don't think any of their monasteries have the EF Mass exclusively, but I believe at least one of the three monasteries would have it sometimes for sure, since the FI Friars offer it a lot and are very much in favor of it, and maybe it the future it will be even more frequent or all the time.

They are so beautiful!!! :heart:

[img]http://i48.tinypic.com/2zi3alx.jpg[/img]


[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/89825-poor-clares-of-the-immaculate/"]http://www.phatmass....the-immaculate/[/url]

[url="http://www.mtstfrancis.com/index.php/franciscans/poor-clares-of-the-immaculate"]http://www.mtstfranc...-the-immaculate[/url]

[url="http://clarisimmacolata.altervista.org/index.html"]http://clarisimmacol....org/index.html[/url]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G1KmarrhR0[/media]


p.s. I heard from an FI Friar that one of the differences, among several things, between the FI Sisters' wholly contemplative houses, and the monasteries of Poor Clares of the Immaculate, is that the Poor Clares were originally actual Poor Clares to begin with, who then adopted the FI spirituality and started a new Poor Clare branch. That's the reason why in the old PM thread there (first thing I linked) she says they are "real" Poor Clares .. not just a new community starting (edit: okay, she doesn't say "real" there, but I think in one of her posts somewhere else she did, or I read that on a blog somewhere) They profess Solemn Vows and have Papal Enclosure :like:

p.s. did one more edit about the three Clarrise monasteries, because I realized LaPetiteSoeur is talking about the FI Sisters' contemplative Houses. There are four of those, two in Italy, one in England & one in the Philippines. All the three PC papally enclosed monasteries are in Italy. Edited by Chiquitunga

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LaPetiteSoeur
Bienvenue à Phatmass Rosa Immaculata!

Il y a trois couvents avec les soeurs cloîtrées: deux en Italie, et un autre en Angleterre. http://www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com/religious-life/history/contemplative-sisters.html (si tu besoin un traduite, je peux essayer--j'étudie l'éducation française pour l'éducation secondaire aux États-Unis!)

Je connais beaucoup de soeurs traditionnelle en France; il y a beaucoup des pauvres clarisses--une type de franciscaine.

Dieu te bénisse!

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ToJesusMyHeart
Bienvenue, Rosa Immaculata!

I have talked to the Sisters and this is what I have learned:

Girls are welcome to come and spend some time with the Sisters anytime during the
year as they don't take vacations so they are there year round. You can come for
as little or as long as you like. Some girls don't have much time to spare
between work or study and they can only stay a weekend. I usually like to
suggest at least a week, two weeks are even better and if you'd like to, you
could even stay for a month. The bottom line is, the longer the stay, the
better because it usually takes a couple of days just to relax and leave the
world behind before you can start to really participate in the experience.

Those who can only make it for a weekend often say, "Wow, I was just getting
into it and it's already time to go home." Whatever works for you will be
ok, just if you are planning and you have the time, try and make it a longer
retreat rather than a shorter one. You can also come on retreat a number of
times. You don't have to decide right away. They leave that up to you and
your spiritual director.

The USA vocations director is Sister Maria Simona Pia and she has said to me that the usual restrictions
for girls to come are that they should be under 35 years of age, not have serious health problems and
single (never married). If you have college debts, they'll need to be paid off before you enter but that
could be a ways down the track, you need to come first and have a retreat and take it from there should you have debts to pay off.

In the state of Massachusetts in the USA, the sisters have a Tridentine Holy Mass celebrated for
them in the convent chapel once a week by their friars. They also attend a
Tridentine Holy Mass in their friars' adoration chapel downtown once a week
plus once a month, they go there for the Tridentine Mass on a Sunday and also
at another chapel in up-State New York (run by their friars) on the 2nd Friday
and Saturday of the month. The other days, they attend Holy Mass in their parish
and the priest celebrates according to the Novus Ordo. It works out about 10
times a month they have Holy Mass celebrated according to the Tridentine rite.

They have been praying Compline every evening in the Vetus Ordo since
September 2010 and also the Little Office of the B.V.M. on Fridays in the
Tridentine Rite for priests. For now, the rest of the Liturgy of the Hours
is celebrated in English in the Novus Ordo. In the next few months, they are
making the transition to the Tridentine Divinum Ufficium for all the
canonical hours.

The rest of the Institute outside the English speaking countries has been
having daily Holy Mass and the DIvinum Ufficium since the Motu Proprio came
out in July 2007. They have 50 communities throughout the world and there are
28 communities in the English speaking world. The cost of buying a
Latin-English Breviary is very costly so their sisters in Italy, who have a
printing press, did the layout for it and had it printed at low cost. The
copies have arrived here in the US recently and hopefully, they'll make the
change in the next couple of months.

I guess the bottom line of the Order is this: their main characteristic is the
Vow of Unlimited Consecration to the Immaculate whereby they go anywhere,
anytime and do anything for the Immaculate. When their Institute can choose,
they choose the Tridentine Rite as a response to Our Holy Father's appeal to
religious Orders in the Motu Proprio, but being missionaries, sometimes they
are not able to choose (like in Africa for example) and they happily
participate in the Novus Ordo, recognizing it as the Ordinary form of the
Latin Rite, and fully valid.

If their friars can come and celebrate in the private convent chapel, they will celebrate in the
Tridentine rite, even in Africa, but most of the time, they are so busy with
their pastoral work in the mission that they attend their Mass they celebrate
in public parishes and it is always in the Novus Ordo as the people for now,
are not able to accept the Tridentine Rite. They also have to work in accord
with local diocesan Bishops and follow their directives for the people.

You can visit the Italian liturgical site and see some of the celebrations
that have taken place over there: perpetual professions of the sisters and
diaconal ordinations of the friars.

This first video is of their cloistered sisters who made their perpetual
profession as a Pontifical Mass in 2008
[url="http://www.tvimmacolata.net/videoimmachome/visualizzavideo/491/professioni-p"]http://www.tvimmacol...1/professioni-p[/url]
erpetue-di-sette-suore-francescane-dellimmacolata-nella-festa-di-cristo-re-2
008-presso-il-duomo-di-imperia-celebrante-sua-eccza-mons-mario-oliveri.html

These are from the perpetual professions of sisters in the active life
2001

[url="http://www.liturgiaetmusica.com/archivio-fotografico/category/12-professioni"]http://www.liturgiae.../12-professioni[/url]
-sfi11.html

These are from the diaconal ordinations of the friars 2011
[url="http://www.liturgiaetmusica.com/archivio-fotografico/category/4-ordinazioni-"]http://www.liturgiae.../4-ordinazioni-[/url]
diaconali-10.html

These are photos from a Tridentine Mass celebrated by Cardinal Burke in the
Mother House, Italy: [url="http://www.liturgiaetmusica.com/component/content/article/72-celebrazioni/184-pont-burke-simposio-2011.html"]http://www.liturgiae...posio-2011.html[/url]

You may be interested to know that the parents of the Founder, Father
Stefano Maria Manelli, are Servants of God. They were guided by St. Pio of
Pietrelcina and had 21 children (that alone is enough to canonize them!)

You can read about them on this site:
[url="http://www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com/religious-life/patron-saints/158-e"]http://www.francisca...on-saints/158-e[/url]xemplary-spouses-settimio-manelli-and-licia-gualandris.html?showall=1

For more information about the Order and the spirituality, I guess you've
seen their websites [url="http://www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com/"]www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com[/url] and
[url="http://www.marymediatrix.com/"]www.marymediatrix.com[/url]
They also have an international website: [url="http://www.immacolata.ws/"]www.immacolata.ws[/url]

Another website that many girls have visited is [url="http://www.airmaria.com/"]www.airmaria.com[/url]
It's run by their friars and they have many talks and homilies that you can
listen to in order to get an idea about their spirituality. Some girls have
visited it daily, heard the homilies and then decided to enter, they liked
the spirituality so much.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Entrust everything to the Immaculate. She is our Heavenly Mother. United in
prayer,

In Corde Matris,
Katie Edited by ToJesusMyHeart

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OnlySunshine
[quote name='ToJesusMyHeart' timestamp='1352059123' post='2503999']
The USA vocations director is Sister Maria Simona Pia and she has said to me that the usual restrictions
for girls to come are that they should be under 35 years of age, not have serious health problems and
single (never married). If you have college debts, they'll need to be paid off before you enter but that
could be a ways down the track, you need to come first and have a retreat and take it from there should you have debts to pay off.
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, what does "serious health problems" entail? I'm not looking, of course, but I always keep my ears open for others who have the same problem I do with orders being finicky about depression. Mine is well controlled, of course, and I am pretty well adjusted. Others I know are either on or off medication and they have a tough time searching because so many turn us down. I'd appreciate any input on this. I'm blessed because I had assistance through my pastor but others do not. :)

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Rosa immaculata
Ave Maria!
Thank you so much for your answers (thank you for the French one, La Petite Soeur! you speak French better than I speak English lol! and thank you for your help if I need!) and your links!! The one thing I fear is that indeed I have to go to the novitiate in the apostolic branch before entering an enclosed convent... So I don't really know now if Gods is calling me there... but the contemplative branch really attracts me (I really love the video of the final professions) and I think I will ask directly to them if a contemplative sister can really become again an apostolic one (even if their lives are very very beautifiul and fervous!)... Thank you for the links to the Poor Clares of the Immaculate: very beautiful order too, but I am searching for an order which uses the tridentine rite and breviary without being not faithful to the Church and the Pope...

Thank you To Jesus my Heart for your very precise answer: I admire their effort to attend the Latin Mass but I totally undestand that it is very difficult in Africa etc... and I am very glad that they begin to usethe Latin breviary in the US! I really like airmaria, and their Days with Mary; I will try to go to see them in Italy or England to spend some days with them (I'm doing a thesis, so I don't have much time grrr!!!!)... I need to be in silence to listend to God...

What a mystery is the religious vocation! Thank you for your support! I pray for you too, discerning religious vocation is a way of the Cross (chemin de Croix), but I know that the Immaculate is with us !

Thank you everybody (I think I will soon email them (this Friday I'm going to see a carmelite sister who will speak to me about the contemplative life in general and how discern a contemplative vocation) and I will ask to them what they do when a girl comes to them and thinks she haves a contemplative vocation... I know the contemplative branch is recent (ten years about), so things can change perhaps...

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ToJesusMyHeart
[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1352060230' post='2504010']

Just out of curiosity, what does "serious health problems" entail? I'm not looking, of course, but I always keep my ears open for others who have the same problem I do with orders being finicky about depression. Mine is well controlled, of course, and I am pretty well adjusted. Others I know are either on or off medication and they have a tough time searching because so many turn us down. I'd appreciate any input on this. I'm blessed because I had assistance through my pastor but others do not. :)
[/quote]

Sorry Mater, but I don't know. :(

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OnlySunshine
[quote name='ToJesusMyHeart' timestamp='1352060663' post='2504015']

Sorry Mater, but I don't know. :(
[/quote]

That's OK. I was just curious. :)

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Chiara Francesco
Many orders consider mental and physical problems serious if they are conditions that naturally is worsen, you need consistent medical attention (doctor's appointments, expensive medications, lab work), have physical/mobility issues, etc. I've had orders ask (and deny inquirers with them) if you have arthritis, COPD, bad asthma, a brittle insulin dependent diabetic, certain heart conditions or other conditions.

After all, an order is not a hospital, nursing home or assisted living facilities! And they definitely don't have super insurance. I've known a few orders small in numbers who have a dentist that gives them free dental care and doctors that give much lower rates but some aren't that lucky.

It's one thing to be an old professed nun in your 60s-70's or later who can get such conditions but for one just entering and right off the bat needs special bending of the rules, having to be excused from house or yard work, etc isn't going to be something in your favor. Then of course, they wouldn't want any obvious mental health issues that would be worsen in a monastery setting of silence, solitude, etc or possibly an active setting. These settings and especially any "dark nights" are tough on people who have no issues! Ones that are well controlled with or without meds are sometimes are accepted I've seen and heard of.

Most orders just require good/decent mental and physical health. Things like normal allergies and other run-of-the-mill things aren't usually aren't a problem.

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emmaberry101
[quote name='Chiara Francesco' timestamp='1352095114' post='2504366']
Many orders consider mental and physical problems serious if they are conditions that naturally is worsen, you need consistent medical attention (doctor's appointments, expensive medications, lab work), have physical/mobility issues, etc. I've had orders ask (and deny inquirers with them) if you have arthritis, COPD, bad asthma, a brittle insulin dependent diabetic, certain heart conditions or other conditions.

After all, an order is not a hospital, nursing home or assisted living facilities! And they definitely don't have super insurance. I've known a few orders small in numbers who have a dentist that gives them free dental care and doctors that give much lower rates but some aren't that lucky.

It's one thing to be an old professed nun in your 60s-70's or later who can get such conditions but for one just entering and right off the bat needs special bending of the rules, having to be excused from house or yard work, etc isn't going to be something in your favor. Then of course, they wouldn't want any obvious mental health issues that would be worsen in a monastery setting of silence, solitude, etc or possibly an active setting. These settings and especially any "dark nights" are tough on people who have no issues! Ones that are well controlled with or without meds are sometimes are accepted I've seen and heard of.

Most orders just require good/decent mental and physical health. Things like normal allergies and other run-of-the-mill things aren't usually aren't a problem.
[/quote]

^Thanks for this CF.

I don't know if I have stated on VS before, but the PCC novice in Roswell had thyroid surgery a year after entering, and I have very minor health issues (mild exercise-induced asthma, pcos, I had wisdom teeth that I needed removed) but they are still existing health issues, however small. So I don't think Roswell is the type of monastery that turns down anyone with any pre-existing health issues.

Anyway, it is good to just go ahead and be frank with the communities you are looking into. Usually, they can give you a solid answer before you invest your heart and soul into further discernment with them. Also, don't assume that a community will turn you away. Many many thriving vocations are happily chugging along today because someone went out on a limb and contacted a community, probably thinking they would be rejected, but they took the chance anyway. “If it is God’s work, it will happen.” -Mother Teresa

The cross any of you with health or mental issues that impede you from entering or limit your options must be very heavy. You have my prayers.. Know that Jesus is right beside you in carrying it as well. I firmly believe that the only reason that I am not more afflicted with one of the previously mentioned crosses is because I would have given up my vocation if such an 'obstacle' appeared in my path. It is a testament to your faith that He entrusts you with this.

Sorry, I have thought pretty heavily on this subject.. Did not mean to say this much. Edited by emmaberry101

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Egidio
[quote name='Rosa immaculata' timestamp='1352060296' post='2504011']
Ave Maria!
Thank you so much for your answers (thank you for the French one, La Petite Soeur! you speak French better than I speak English lol! and thank you for your help if I need!) and your links!! The one thing I fear is that indeed I have to go to the novitiate in the apostolic branch before entering an enclosed convent... So I don't really know now if Gods is calling me there... but the contemplative branch really attracts me (I really love the video of the final professions) and I think I will ask directly to them if a contemplative sister can really become again an apostolic one (even if their lives are very very beautifiul and fervous!)... Thank you for the links to the Poor Clares of the Immaculate: very beautiful order too, but I am searching for an order which uses the tridentine rite and breviary without being not faithful to the Church and the Pope...

[/quote]

Dear Rosa Immaculata,

AVE MARIA!!

I am afraid it is true, that a sister (or friar for that matter) who is living in the contemplative branch, can at any time be called into 'active duty'. It is all part of the Marian Vow, to go anywhere at any time according to the obedience received.

There is an order of comtemplatives attached to the Cristo Re community, that is exclusively EF. . .maybe you should look into them...I think they are based in Florence, Italy.

I will pray that God gives you the light to see clearly the path He wishes for your sanctification.

AVE MARIA!!!

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Chiquitunga
Praised be Jesus & Mary! ^^^ (arrows pointing up) First, just a note, the last poster here, Egidio, is an FI Friar in Australia :like:

What about the Religieuses Victimes du Sacré-Coeur? They look so beautiful and are exclusively EF (except for I think once a week that have an OF Mass) If I could speak French, I would love to discern with them!!! Here's our thread on them, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/81559-victim-nuns-of-the-sacred-heart/"]http://www.phatmass....e-sacred-heart/[/url]

I do not believe they have Solemn Vows because they are not officially part of an Order, although they follow the Rule of St. Augustine. But they do have a Vow of Enclosure, so they will definitely be "in" for the rest of their lives. Actually I have heard this is the reason the Passionist Nuns have a Vow of Enclosure also (perhaps in all official terms, not rightly called "nuns") I read in a little booklet on St. Paul of the Cross that he first wanted them so badly to have Solemn Vows, but after that was not possible, he put in a Vow of Enclosure to guarantee their enclosed life.

Interestingly though, PCCs have Solemn Vows and one of them is a Vow of Enclosure :)

Prayers for you and your discernment! Also, no doubt you've seen this blog, but here you go, [url="http://tradvocations.blogspot.com/"]http://tradvocations.blogspot.com/[/url]

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Rosa immaculata
Thank you Edigio for your information! You are so lucky to be called in this Order... and I understand why a sister can be called again to an apostolic life, it is a very specail vocation, but I don't dispair, and I pray God to deepen my vocation before thinking of where to go... I need "dépouillement" (I don't how to say it in English, aha!). I know the Sisters of the Institue of Christ King Sovereign Priest: veru good but not enclosed (I know that someone, on Phatmass, I think, is discerning with them...).
Dear Chiquitunga (I hope I do not make mistakes in writing your surname!)! I really love the Religieuses Victimes du Sacré Coeur in Marseille and the answers to my questions make me thnikong of them again... if you like, [b]I can help you writing to them a letter in French!![/b] Don't hesitate to ask me, if God is calling you there!! I have heard that they have mainly French vocations, but is is not impossible they have other nationalities... I have seen that they are an Order (unique and directly under the Papal authority, yeah!) so perhaps they have Solem Wows, but I don't want to tell wrong information...Anyway, they are very penitential, they have Perpetual Adoration, even in the night, they are in sandals during summer as well as winter, and their enclosure is very strict (small dark grills behind the altar; I have seen on a picture!!!!)... Their superior is Mère Marie Véronique de la Sainte-Face, and I saw on the internet that she is very lovely and holy!! She likes helping young ladies in their discernement and she continues to answer to their letters even if they are not called in her convent (what a holy behaviour!); you can go there for some days, but you do not enter the enclosure... Thier penitential life is very similar to the Franciscan and Carmelite ones (fasting, early rising, no property of personal objects...) Perhaps I will write to them as well as the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate; I think it is a good thing to write to the Orders that we love because it makes us deepen our vocation and not staying in dreaming etc... and the Sisters have a great experience of discernement!!
I love the PPC too and their charism but I think there are not in France (huge sigh!!!!!!!).

I pray for you the Immaculate !! (I am going to plan a retreat soon in a benedictine abbey (Argentan, very observant)... vocation vocation...)

Hélène

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