The Cloisterite Family

[Gemma]

Doing my job as "promoter" here:

Vena Cava is the Cloisterite Hermit virtual come-and-see/aspirancy/intake program. It begins on the First Sunday of Advent.

The hermits are Carthusian/Reparatrix-based, and each eremite is to choose which established spirituality they are to follow (Augustinian; Carmelite; Benedictine, etc.).

We are also offering the Mary, Star of the Sea Contemplatives, the new name for the Cloisterite cenobitic observance.

Our link: [url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/"]http://cloisters.tri...m/cloisterites/[/url]

If one is attracted to the Third Order Regular of St. Dominic, we also have a proposed congregation in the Cloisterite spirituality.

We highly suggest the Lay Cloisterites for vocational discerners. Past experience has shown that persons are more likely to find their vocations through this practice. Participation as a Lay Cloisterite is required for those attracted to Cloisterite vowed life.

The Lay Cloisterites are designed with the vocational discerner in mind. Established third orders do not permit vocational discerners to join. Therefore, we have opened the Lay Cloisterites to them.

If any questions, please contact me either through PM or at [email="foundress2003@yahoo.com"]foundress2003@yahoo.com[/email]

Blessings,
Gemma

Edited November 6, 2012 by Gemma

[Gemma]

Bump.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Sister_Laurel]

As long as you are promoting religious vocations, Gemma, could you say how many people in ANY of the projects you list on your site have made PUBLIC vows of any sort with those projects? Where (in whose hands) and when? How many people do you have preparing formally (by this I mean canonically) to make PUBLIC vows of any sort. Where and in whose hands? Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

[Gemma]

As long as you are promoting religious vocations, Gemma, could you say how many people in ANY of the projects you list on your site have made PUBLIC vows of any sort with those projects? Where (in whose hands) and when? How many people do you have preparing formally (by this I mean canonically) to make PUBLIC vows of any sort. Where and in whose hands? Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

None as of yet.  We're not that far along with any of them.

 

All are still private lay associations, as in "third orders."  The adherents participate in the "third order" as part of their discernment.  They get to know each other over the internet, then they have meet-greets.  It will be up to them to decide when to live together as community. 

 

Our Gilbertine Renewal lay association just completed their one year of "formation," and that will count toward the formation for the religious community when it forms.

 

The Cloisterites are a family, and will have several expressions, to include Dedicated Laity, and a secular institute.  Those called to eremitism are required to be Lay Cloisterites first.  My Dominican SD, who has 25 years of emerging charism experience, is watching our progress.

 

Blessings,

Gemma

[Gemma]

Pardon an omission.

We were under the impression that emerging charisms are to look like an established charism when they go to the bishop for recognition. Therefore, those who intended to live the life as a vocation were to make private vows. There were some of ours with what ended up being impediments, but they have become the seed vocations for the secular institute and the cenobitic branch. The one eremite we have now has been adversely affected by Hurricane Sandy, and is discerning her future with us. Vena Cava has several in discernment. The formation program is written, and we are persevering. My SD keeps watch over us.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Sister_Laurel]

Pardon an omission.

We were under the impression that emerging charisms are to look like an established charism when they go to the bishop for recognition. Therefore, those who intended to live the life as a vocation were to make private vows. There were some of ours with what ended up being impediments, but they have become the seed vocations for the secular institute and the cenobitic branch. The one eremite we have now has been adversely affected by Hurricane Sandy, and is discerning her future with us. Vena Cava has several in discernment. The formation program is written, and we are persevering. My SD keeps watch over us.

Blessings,
Gemma

 

Thanks for your response, Gemma. Let me state my concerns and questions directly then. I don't mean to attack or bully you, but I do mean to be completely frank in doing so.

 

You have no one in public vows. I wonder then what you mean when you say: [[We highly suggest the Lay Cloisterites for vocational discerners. Past experience has shown that persons are more likely to find their vocations through this practice. Participation as a Lay Cloisterite is required for those attracted to Cloisterite vowed life.]] You speak of experience of people finding their vocations and you speak of vowed life. Both of these imply PUBLIC vows. The first implies one goes on to them from the lay cloisterite period of involvement (after all, discernment must lead somewhere; you call this somewhere "cloisterite vowed life") and the second, by definition, means public vows. (Lay life is not vowed life even when one makes some sort of private vows.) What then is "Cloisterite vowed life"? If it is something that will only exist down the line, how many people do you have who are or will be ready for public vows when approval is granted? I also wonder who is in charge of formation with this project, their background, and where is this community located? (Individual persons cannot be publicly vowed; there is no provision for this in canon law.)

 

Your reference to, "past experience has shown" sharpens these questions for me because you clearly imply that people have "found their vocations" through participation in this program. Can you describe how many have done this and in what vocations they eventually came to reside? Do you work directly with established canonical communities, for instance, to feed them vocations? Can you give some readers here some sense of how many people have indeed moved through your program, or, if they are staying with the lay cloisterites and considering Vowed life, how many single people are doing that who can indeed one day look forward to making a public commitment through the Church's canonical mediation? If you are not at all ready to even contact a Bishop for approval as a private association of the faithful, when do you propose to be ready to do that? How long have you been doing this (Cloisters outreach and its various projects which propose to become institutes of consecrated life) already? What I am really looking for is specifics, not generalities without real substance.

 

My objections to the eremitical expression you have outlined here and on your website have, in part, to do with the unnecessary and even the problematical nature of association with your projects. What I mean by this is ANY lay person can live as a lay hermit by virtue of their baptism if they feel called to this. If they come to feel called to consecration and public profession as a solitary hermit, then canon 603 provides for that. You give people "permission" or charge them with "the responsibility" for going to their Bishops when they feel ready. But in point of fact, if they are looking to be professed as solitary hermits, canon 603 is the ONLY avenue available for that and they do not need your permission  to go the the diocese any time they feel ready. That responsibility is ALREADY theirs and something they assume with the assistance of their spiritual director. You claim not to be using canon 603 as a stopgap or stepping stone to other (e.g., semi-eremitical or cenobitical) vocations but really, if that is the case, why would someone need to be involved in CO and jump through all the hoops you say are necessary (participation in the lay cloisterites, membership in the Cloister of the Heart listserve, eventually running the CO website, etc)? I know that I personally would find most of these distractions to an eremitical vocation and certainly no help. If I were working for a diocese in assessing possible c 603 vocations I would wonder why the person is associated with CO if they are REALLY discerning a vocation to c 603 eremitical life (i.e., to solitary diocesan eremitical life). What is it CO offers solitary hermits that they cannot get other places and in more effective ways if you really are NOT using the eremitical expression as a stepping stone or stopgap vocation to canon 603 profession?

 

I have asked a lot of questions because these seem to arise naturally from reflection on what you have written and because I suspect some of them may clarify aspects of canon 603 that your own website does not make clear or actually obscures. I sincerely hope you will answer them. If that means a little at a time for some period of time, then that's great. The point is to get some substantive answers to important questions which affect the lives of those associated with or considering associating with "the Cloisterite family."

 

Sincerely,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

[TIWW]

Thank you Sister Laurel.

These are crucial, specific questions which need to be answered  (and perhaps considered by phatmass in the general scheme of things.)

My concern about Gemma is the distraction and  deception that she might, in any way represent the Church.  From what she has said, she has ideas or illusions which she has created, which she is promoting in "her mind," which actually do not exist. What is a young, idealistic discerner to make of all the external  (pillars, habits tiers) nonsense.  (A parent who knows how young minds can work. )

 

 

[Gemma]

Since sister's post is lengthy, I shall answer to the best of my ability.

Why not be a Lay Cloisterite? The candidates we were vetting had never heard of Cloister Outreach, and were not familiar with our mission. Cloister of the heart has daily meditations from "contributing editors". In imitation of the Carthusians, we take a passage a day and meditate on it.

We have had two Lay Cloisterites find their vocations to one of our renewals. They are persevering with this and are growing spiritually. I have been told by former members of emerging charisms to take things slowly or it will take many years to undo the damage. I have advised our affiliate founders to do the same. These two are studying, meditating, and discerning the original rule. I have reminded our renewal personnel to be sure to be familiar with VatII documents.

If the Cloisterites are going to pray for the initiatives of Cloister Outreach, it makes sense for them to have participated in the mission, does it not? Therefore, would Cooperator not be a logical job, if not for a while? This is along the thought lines of the Maryknoll cloister.

This group we presently have on Vena Cava have it as their responsibility the contact with their bishops and to find a local canonical eremite to give them more training than what I am able to convey. I teach them the specifics of the Cloisterite charism, but I told them I could not give them a real hermitage experience, and therefore, to seek out canonical eremites. Emphasis on the word canonical.

When they have done that, then we will have cleared a hurdle. One of the hardest parts of a new foundation is the training of the seed vocations. This is known as the founder's novitiate.

They then have the opportunity to take as long as they feel they need within reason. When they are ready, they will proceed with their bishops. They are required to have an SD and support system.

Once we have some in public vows, then we can start thinking about a physical novitiate building. They have to have a sense of "pride of ownership" and take responsibility for the propagation of their charism.

HTH

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

Thank you Sister Laurel.
These are crucial, specific questions which need to be answered (and perhaps considered by phatmass in the general scheme of things.)
My concern about Gemma is the distraction and deception that she might, in any way represent the Church. From what she has said, she has ideas or illusions which she has created, which she is promoting in "her mind," which actually do not exist. What is a young, idealistic discerner to make of all the external (pillars, habits tiers) nonsense. (A parent who knows how young minds can work. )

Our affiliate founders are not in my mind. They are flesh and blood persons who have contacted my local ordinary to attest to the fact.

These proposed charisms have given hope to persons in bad situations because they have adapted them to personal prayer rules, and even if not publicly vowed, have contributed to the development of the charism.

You have only to look at the founder's page of the Holy Innocents charism to see a flesh-and-blood founder. Http://cloisters.tripod.com/holyinnocents/ She would be more than happy to answer your questions.

The affiliate new foundations are going to be forming their own private association, then eventually go to public association, which requires a board of directors. They are also going to put into the statutes that they plan to be a personal prelature. Then we can incubate on our own property and mission when they are ready.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

Thank you Sister Laurel.
These are crucial, specific questions which need to be answered (and perhaps considered by phatmass in the general scheme of things.)
My concern about Gemma is the distraction and deception that she might, in any way represent the Church. From what she has said, she has ideas or illusions which she has created, which she is promoting in "her mind," which actually do not exist. What is a young, idealistic discerner to make of all the external (pillars, habits tiers) nonsense. (A parent who knows how young minds can work. )

Our affiliate founders are not in my mind. They are flesh and blood persons who have contacted my local ordinary to attest to the fact.

These proposed charisms have given hope to persons in bad situations because they have adapted them to personal prayer rules, and even if not publicly vowed, have contributed to the development of the charism.

You have only to look at the founder's page of the Holy Innocents charism to see a flesh-and-blood founder. Http://cloisters.tripod.com/holyinnocents/ She would be more than happy to answer your questions.

The affiliate new foundations are going to be forming their own private association, then eventually go to public association, which requires a board of directors. They are also going to put into the statutes that they plan to be a personal prelature. Then we can incubate on our own property and mission when they are ready.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

Sorry for the triple post! Droid hiccups.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Sister_Laurel]

Gemma, will you continue from the above post to answer the questions you have not yet addressed, or would you like me to reiterate them bit by bit over time?

 

Sister Laurel, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

[Gabriela]

Gemma, will you continue from the above post to answer the questions you have not yet addressed, or would you like me to reiterate them bit by bit over time?

 

Sister Laurel, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

 

Thank you, Sister, for eliciting this information for those of us who don't know how to do it ourselves!

[Gemma]

I will try to cover the bases, but I am preparing for the holidays.

CO is a clearinghouse of links primarily for the cloistered life. We offer safe harbor for all discerners, but most particularly those to the cloister. While I cannot reveal identities, we have had discerners enter primarily the Visitation. Our vocational forums have closed archives for the sake of the privacy mandated by canon law. We reveal names only if they permit us to do so.

We have noticed a dearth of vocational opportunities, and these are primarily for older vocations and EF adherents. Lay associations and Betty Orders and other options are discerned for the sake of these groups. We also cater to former religious and provide a safe, non-judgemental environment in which they can vent then get on with life. These ladies have formed their own lay association, and I am helping them with it.

As stated previously, we do promote all vocations, but we concentrate on the cloisters because of the misunderstanding that goes along with it. I have even created a US nursing orders page.

I absolutely will not force anything on a discerner. They have to learn to follow their attractions. If that attraction is to one of our CONF communities, we do have a standard of practice which I expect from them. This standard of practice is based on Salesian and Lasallian spiritualities.

So, to answer the question, yes, we do funnel to other communities. We have a monthly reading of one of the spiritual classics, and discuss vocational discernment, to include correspondence etiquette. We generate links, and usually follow the church's calendar to maintain a theme of sorts.

I do not know why eremites would come to us, but I have had pleasant interactions with about 10 canonical eremites who have found us. I am presently supporting a few diocesan eremite candidates, one of which is a CONF affiliate founder.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gabriela]

I have a question for Gemma: Why did you feel the need to put the following information on your website?

 

"***Please note that there is nothing "fake" about Cloister Outreach; their proposed/emerging charisms; or Gemma.  She is in good standing with her local Chancery, which receives a yearly update on Cloister Outreach activities.  She uses an internet moniker to protect her family.  Our detractors have never spoken directly to us.  Please pray for them.***"

[Gemma]

I have a question for Gemma: Why did you feel the need to put the following information on your website?

"***Please note that there is nothing "fake" about Cloister Outreach; their proposed/emerging charisms; or Gemma. She is in good standing with her local Chancery, which receives a yearly update on Cloister Outreach activities. She uses an internet moniker to protect her family. Our detractors have never spoken directly to us. Please pray for them.***"

That was under the advice of our spiritual director. And our critics had never emailed us directly. Our counsel has said that some of the posts detracting me are actually civil cases of libel.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gabriela]

@Gemma: I think the reason why some people are suspicious is because you seem so hesitant to provide specific names, locations, and details. We all understand the need for confidentiality for individuals, but as things appear in your PM posts and on your websites, there is no external, third-party "vetting" of you or your organization.

 

Additionally, at least so far as I know (which, frankly, isn't far), this isn't the usual way that new orders are founded. Your own centrality to the endeavor is, I think, what is causing some people to suspect that you are either running a scam or starting a cult. Your blog gives a biography of you, which, aside from the abbesses of established communities, I have never seen before. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here and this is actually common.)

 

Your posts and websites make copious references to different spiritualities and drop the most frequent "discernment words" all over ("charism" and the like). Typically, a new order or community of the faithful has a focused, narrow spirituality, rather than one that draws from many different traditions. Yours also seems to draw from many lesser-known traditions, which also makes one suspicious, because it's easy for an unwitting discerner to see the reference to them and just say, "Oh, I've never heard of that..." and just keep reading, trusting that you're legit.

 

Finally, things with your organization appear to be very "up in the air". There's a whole lotta use of the future tense on your websites. Again, if I'm not mistaken, the accepted way of establishing a religious organization (association of the faithful, religious order, etc.) is to get a few interested people to commit, get the approval of a bishop, and THEN advertise. This, I think, is one more reason why people are suspicious.

 

You've posted in several places on PM. I'm not gonna lie: The first time I clicked through to your website, I thought, "Hmm. Something seems fishy here." I don't know much about Catholicism yet, and I don't typically trust my intuition, and even so, I closed the window. So, if you are legit—and I'm not saying you're not; I really hope you are!—then you've got some work to do in communicating that clearly to the public!

[Gemma]

Curiousing--thank you and God bless and reward you for your generosity in following grace to discernment. Welcome home to Rome.

What third party is supposed to be vetting CO or CONF? These founders have a right to privacy, and I will not expose them until they are ready to answer questions. They have to know where they are going before they can lead others. They want me to field inquiries before I refer people to them.

What obscure spiritualities are you talking about? Everything I have been inspired to propose utilizes approved devotions. The Flame of Love has an imprimatur.

The Cloisterite spirituality is drawn from all charisms because we represent/promote all charisms. To those who have the call, it makes sense. Whenever we find something that we aren't attracted to, we are usually better off saying, "That's nice, but it isn't for me."

Blessings,
Gemma

[Discipulus]

The affiliate new foundations are going to be forming their own private association, then eventually go to public association, which requires a board of directors. They are also going to put into the statutes that they plan to be a personal prelature. Then we can incubate on our own property and mission when they are ready.

 

 

Gemma,

 

I apologise if I'm adding to the list of questions being asked of you here, but the above confused me. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you say that part of the Cloisterite family aims at becoming a personal prelature. There is only one personal prelature in the church at present, namely Opus Dei; and theirs is a privileged, demanding and complex postion which is faciliated by their worldwide membership and highly efficient management and organisation. The SSPX has apparently been offered this status if they reconcile to the Church in relation to their doctrinal disagreements, but without prejudice to that, this kind of canonical recognition is (very clearly) exceptionally rare, and is centred on clerical involvement: namely, a substantial number of clergy, seminary facilities for training them, and the fulfilment of pastoral or other ministries that are essential to those places in which the prelature is domiciled and which is overseen by the local bishop or bishops.

 

For people not familiar with this area of church law, the relevant canons are available at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P10.HTM

 

Perhaps I'm missing the point of your comments above, but as someone with an interest in canon law (an interest, not an expertise, I should add) I don't understand how an association can plan or undertake to become a prelature. It requires resources that are typically well beyond those of most (probably all) private or public associations and requires many thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of members and/or supporters to be a realistic proposition. In what way is the Cloisterite family positioned to engage in this kind of a structure? Do you have even a single cleric associated with the family?

 

Looking forward to your responses, and with best wishes to you.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Discipulus

[Gemma]

Gemma,

I apologise if I'm adding to the list of questions being asked of you here, but the above confused me. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you say that part of the Cloisterite family aims at becoming a personal prelature. There is only one personal prelature in the church at present, namely Opus Dei; and theirs is a privileged, demanding and complex postion which is faciliated by their worldwide membership and highly efficient management and organisation. The SSPX has apparently been offered this status if they reconcile to the Church in relation to their doctrinal disagreements, but without prejudice to that, this kind of canonical recognition is (very clearly) exceptionally rare, and is centred on clerical involvement: namely, a substantial number of clergy, seminary facilities for training them, and the fulfilment of pastoral or other ministries that are essential to those places in which the prelature is domiciled and which is overseen by the local bishop or bishops.

For people not familiar with this area of church law, the relevant canons are available at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P10.HTM

Perhaps I'm missing the point of your comments above, but as someone with an interest in canon law (an interest, not an expertise, I should add) I don't understand how an association can plan or undertake to become a prelature. It requires resources that are typically well beyond those of most (nearly all) religious institutes and requires many thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of members and/or supporters to be a realistic proposition. In what way is the Cloisterite family positioned to engage in this kind of a structure? Do you have even a single cleric associated with the family?

Looking forward to your responses, and with best wishes to you.

As I understand it, the organization puts it in their statutes that they plan to be a personal prelature. This is what the ODAN site said, and some other sites I have researched. Since we already have men involved in some of the charisms, we are planning on having a seminary. This has long been the plan for CONF. (We just accepted one who will be working with the AIDS project).

Blessings,
Gemma