jen.esis Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I was in religion class and my teacher said that the altar symbolizes Jesus and that's why we bow to it. I had always bowed out of reverence to the sacrifice that takes place there. I really would like to know which one is correct. Or is it matter of personal opinion? Is it dogmatic? . I don't know if it makes a difference, but he attends a Latin mass vs my Latin Rite mass said in English. In Christ, Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmenchristi Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yes, the main altar of a church is a symbol of Christ, which is why technically, other altars in the church should not be adorned with flowers or bear an altar cloth (that is the white cloth, symbol of the burial shroud of The Lord). Of course the altar is also the place of sacrifice and the table of the heavenly banquet, these too are reasons why the altar is venerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 1967 in the first grade I was taught by the B.V.M's when you enter your pew in the Church proper you Genuiflect to the Tabernacle, any time you cross in front of the Tabernacle you genuflect, nothing was ever said about the alter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 [quote name='hermit' timestamp='1352581321' post='2507855'] 1967 in the first grade I was taught by the B.V.M's when you enter your pew in the Church proper you Genuiflect to the Tabernacle, any time you cross in front of the Tabernacle you genuflect, nothing was ever said about the alter... [/quote] most likely there is a distinction now because many churches no longer have the tabernacle behind the altar. (that's a separate debate.) the way it was explained to me was that if Jesus in the tabernacle is behind the altar, genuflect. If not, bow in reverence to the altar of sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureCarmeliteClaire Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1352582858' post='2507867'] most likely there is a distinction now because many churches no longer have the tabernacle behind the altar. (that's a separate debate.) the way it was explained to me was that if Jesus in the tabernacle is behind the altar, genuflect. If not, bow in reverence to the altar of sacrifice. [/quote] Often times I'll just turn and genuflect facing where the tabernacle is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1352582858' post='2507867'] most likely there is a distinction now because many churches no longer have the tabernacle behind the altar. (that's a separate debate.) the way it was explained to me was that if Jesus in the tabernacle is behind the altar, genuflect. If not, bow in reverence to the altar of sacrifice. [/quote] Lil Red its strange that you mention this because our tabernacle sits to the left of the alter as I am facing it today...1967 the Priests back was always to us with the Tabernacle right in the middle, what mass was this?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Long before Vatican II although not always (and there were exceptions, in Rome for example and in Benedictine monasteries) the tabernacle had been located on the high altar, also the altar of sacrifice. After Vatican II the most recent edition of the missal of what is now commonly known as the Latin Mass/Tridentine Mass/Extraordinary Form, published in 1962 gave way to that of 1964/5 which introduced initial reforms following V2's Sacrosanctum Concilium, introducing the vernacular in the liturgy and other changes. 1967 brought even further changes, the last years of that decade and the beginning of the 70's saw the introduction of the New Mass/Ordinary Form. It also saw the introduction of free-standing altars where the priest could face the people, lay lectors reading the scriptures, separation of tabernacle from altar to a side altar/stand or even a separate chapel, and much more... The priest's back being to the congregation is properly understood as facing God together with the congregation. Look up the term "ad orientem." However, no liturgical document mandated the separation of tabernacle from altar of sacrifice. And there are famous examples such as St. Agnes in Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minn. and the Brompton Oratory in London where the tabernacle and altar were preserved intact. [quote name='hermit' timestamp='1352587042' post='2507878'] Lil Red its strange that you mention this because our tabernacle sits to the left of the alter as I am facing it today...1967 the Priests back was always to us with the Tabernacle right in the middle, what mass was this?. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Do you remember priests concelebrating mass on side alters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 [quote name='hermit' timestamp='1352588773' post='2507891'] Do you remember priests concelebrating mass on side alters? [/quote] It was not concelebrating. They would do that because concelebrating does not really happen in the traditional form of the Mass, so in order to fulfill their daily obligation, they would celebrate separately (although often concurrently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352589199' post='2507893'] It was not concelebrating. They would do that because concelebrating does not really happen in the traditional form of the Mass, so in order to fulfill their daily obligation, they would celebrate separately (although often concurrently). [/quote] I think your right, this is what I saw right on the money...Our Rectory is set up for 3 priests Please keep in mind that I'm talking 1967... Edited November 10, 2012 by hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='hermit' timestamp='1352590149' post='2507896'] I think your right, this is what I saw right on the money...Our Rectory isset up for 3 priests Pleae keep in mind that I'm talking 1967... [/quote] The only concelebration allowed in the traditional form of the Mass is during ordinations or consecrations to the episcopate, if I am not mistaken. Fr. Z likes to say that concelebration should be "safe, legal, and rare". I agree. Edit: It just so happens that in my diocese it is exceedingly rare. Probably because the number of priests has been nearly static since the 50s, while the number of Catholics has increased almost tenfold. Edited November 10, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352590245' post='2507897'] The only concelebration allowed in the traditional form of the Mass is during ordinations or consecrations to the episcopate, if I am not mistaken. Fr. Z likes to say that concelebration should be "safe, legal, and rare". I agree. Edit: It just so happens that in my diocese it is exceedingly rare. Probably because the number of priests has been nearly static since the 50s, while the number of Catholics has increased almost tenfold. [/quote] Our Priests are over taxed (static since the fifties) they run themselves ragged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hopefully that situation is beginning to turn around. It appears that the most orthodox seminaries get plenty of young men, which fits well with the reality of seminaries not doing so well since the mid to late 50s. One by one, they will come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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