missionseeker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 His brother is nice. His mom is wise.
Winchester Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1353030327' post='2510963'] His mom [/quote] She is also on the one dollar bill. Pretty impressive.
Ed Normile Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1352990633' post='2510519'] I wasn't basing what I said on any report from anyone. I based it on a personal estimate based on how stupid he acted. I know lots of dumb people with college degrees. I also know lots of smart people who didn't graduate from high school, my dad for one. He dropped out of school to support his family during the Depression so his 156 IQ never got to go to Harvard. Maybe Mr. Bush destroyed his IQ with drugs. [/quote] You feel he acted stupid by turning around a recession that the brilliant Bill Clinton caused by raising taxes ending an economic boom started under Ronald Reagens' tenure? Or did you base it on his pronunciation of the word nuclear ? [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1352991017' post='2510524'] As to the information he used to start the war, he ignored any information that came in that was against his ideas of what was going on. He only focused on the info that gave him what he wanted, no matter how old or obscure. That is based on the sworn testimony of respected Pentagon officers who were asked to follow only leads that led to Bush's goal and ignore everything else. [/quote] So, he was guilty of the same thing that both the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives were ? They all unilaterally focused on the info given to them that they all wanted, this must have been an historic first for this or for that matter any country, as the majority of the rest of the world and NATO backed the war too. And you say this was based on the sworn testimony of unnamed "respected Pentagon officers " ? Who were these people, did John Stewart spread this news in his clown act ? Just wonderin' ! ed
Jesus_lol Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Wait a second Ed, I just want to be sure of your thinking here. You think Clinton, who reduced the national debt to nearly nothing by the time he was done as president, is responsible for the recession that happened 8 years later under Bush, who presided over the deficit going from nearly nothing to over a trillion dollars?
Aloysius Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Clinton reduced the deficit, not the debt. The debt continued to rise under Clinton, just more slowly than under Bush or Obama. The Bush/Obama era makes Clinton and Reagan look like budgetary saints. Some say he had a surplus. But the "surplus" is only an accounting trick, moving numbers around so that it comes off that way at the exact moment of the end of a fiscal year. sure he was only able to do that because the deficit was so low, but the only way a surplus is truly a surplus is if it gets used to pay down the debt. it did not, so it wasn't a real surplus; it's like if you have a monthly budget and on the 31st of the month you brag to all your friends that you came in 100 dollars under budget, but then you spend 150 dollars (putting 50 on the credit card) on all the stuff you've been holding off on all month on the 1st of the next month... see, you didn't really have a surplus, you just claimed to on the 31st. but the deficit was certainly lower, it was a simpler time haha. The debt kept increasing though. So many people don't understand the distinctions between these words, and politicians milk that lack of understanding for all it's worth. There's a few important concepts that if you keep them simply in mind in your head, you can see through a lot of the malarky: the National Debt is the total debt, a deficit or surplus refers to whether we spent more or less than we took in in revenue in any given year, and because of baseline budgeting most of what you hear about "cuts" usually refers to smaller increases. keep those things in mind and you'll smirk a lot when you hear politicians talk about stuff because you'll know what they really mean and realize what it's coming across as (of course, this only comes up when they're actually cornered into talking about this stuff at all) Anyway, so are we really debating George Bush and Bill Clinton? lol I think it's pretty well established that the intelligence community was pushed into the Iraq conflict, there were people then who saw through the propaganda, as there are now people who see through some of the Iran war propaganda. The pre-emptive doctrine is actually extremely dangerous and completely without precedent in Christian Just War theory, and it's precisely for this type of reason: it makes dubious war propaganda much easier to produce to justify the types of offensive wars that rulers often want to engage in. Just War theory is meant to ensure that war is only justified when it is truly defensive. Edited November 17, 2012 by Aloysius
Cherie Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 I assume we're speaking of George W.? Personally, I think he has been WAY over-demonized. Did he make mistakes? Of course. But he did some good things, too, and I don't think he deserves even half the flak he gets, some of which is downright slanderous.
Winchester Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1353133630' post='2511716'] Wait a second Ed, I just want to be sure of your thinking here. You think Clinton, who reduced the national debt to nearly nothing by the time he was done as president, is responsible for the recession that happened 8 years later under Bush, who presided over the deficit going from nearly nothing to over a trillion dollars? [/quote] The national debt increased every year under Clinton. Public debt was reduced by transferring the public debt to intragovernmental debt using SS security windfalls. There are two kinds of debt, and one increased in order to reduce the other. Like paying off your Visa using your Discover card.
Ash Wednesday Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1352956211' post='2510372'] We got what we deserved for electing someone with a room temperature IQ. [/quote] Not sure what you mean by this... Al Gore or John Kerry would have been better? Honestly I'd say we've been stuck with choosing between Cholera or Plague in our elections for quite some time now.
Lilllabettt Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Bush Appreciation is a learned thing. You will never get there by lazily ingesting popular culture about his IQ. I say give it 20 years. Remember Nixon -- by the end of his life he was revered. Although its true the typical American moron still only thinks of his mistakes.
Winchester Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 It will take at least 20 years for the Utilitarians to figure out if the evil of the wars outweighed the evil of not going to wars. Because that's how morality works, now.
Ed Normile Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1353133630' post='2511716'] Wait a second Ed, I just want to be sure of your thinking here. You think Clinton, who reduced the national debt to nearly nothing by the time he was done as president, is responsible for the recession that happened 8 years later under Bush, who presided over the deficit going from nearly nothing to over a trillion dollars? [/quote] Wow were you well trained in your liberal edumacation ! Clinton reduced no debt, and yes he inherited the economic boom that was realized in America through the policies and leadership of Ronald Reagen which turned around devastating policies of Jimmy Carter and the recession he plunged the country into, Reagen's economic boom continued through George Bush' one term, then under the policies of Clinton we entered into another recession despite accounting fraud in use at the time, the same recession which George W. pulled us out of again. Its a fact my friend. On a side note, Clinton's balanced budget he touts so often was actually forced through by a republican majority congress much the same way the housing crisis and eventual economic collapse under Goerge W. was allowed to happen through the policies of a democrat majority congress, this despite George W. directing congress 18 times to address the issue before it caused us problems. One could go so far as to opine that the democrat majority congress wanted the recession to discredit Bush and get a democrat elected, they (democrats) sure vilified Bush through 6 years of economic boom and national security after the 9/11 attacks. ed
Winchester Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1353268146' post='2512406'] Wow were you well trained in your liberal edumacation ! Clinton reduced no debt, and yes he inherited the economic boom that was realized in America through the policies and leadership of Ronald Reagen which turned around devastating policies of Jimmy Carter and the recession he plunged the country into, Reagen's economic boom continued through George Bush' one term, then under the policies of Clinton we entered into another recession despite accounting fraud in use at the time, the same recession which George W. pulled us out of again. Its a fact my friend. On a side note, Clinton's balanced budget he touts so often was actually forced through by a republican majority congress much the same way the housing crisis and eventual economic collapse under Goerge W. was allowed to happen through the policies of a democrat majority congress, this despite George W. directing congress 18 times to address the issue before it caused us problems. One could go so far as to opine that the democrat majority congress wanted the recession to discredit Bush and get a democrat elected, they (democrats) sure vilified Bush through 6 years of economic boom and national security after the 9/11 attacks. ed [/quote] http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
Ash Wednesday Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) I never agreed with the Iraq War, but what I don't understand is how Bush gets called stupid, and yet at the same time gets portrayed as someone who woke up in the middle of the night, came up with this idea (in that "pea brain" of his, amirite?) and managed to single-handedly lead our nation into war. If he's so stupid, I don't know what that says about everyone else that went along with him. Edited November 18, 2012 by Ash Wednesday
CatherineM Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' timestamp='1353257312' post='2512349'] Not sure what you mean by this... Al Gore or John Kerry would have been better? Honestly I'd say we've been stuck with choosing between Cholera or Plague in our elections for quite some time now. [/quote] Completely agree. We haven't had a decent choice in a long time. We don't get a chance to vote for good leaders, people of wisdom and intelligence. People like that don't go into politics anymore.
Nihil Obstat Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1353266824' post='2512399'] It will take at least 20 years for the Utilitarians to figure out if the evil of the wars outweighed the evil of not going to wars. Because that's how morality works, now. [/quote] Which is why historical perspective tells us that incinerating nearly 250 000 Japanese people was just awe[color=#000000]s[/color]ome. Edited November 18, 2012 by Nihil Obstat
Mark of the Cross Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1353271136' post='2512423'] Completely agree. We haven't had a decent choice in a long time. We don't get a chance to vote for good leaders, people of wisdom and intelligence. People like that don't go into politics anymore. [/quote] [img]http://www.papermag.com/uploaded_images/anigif_enhanced-buzz-11966-1340663015-2.gif[/img]
dUSt Posted November 19, 2012 Posted November 19, 2012 I like George W Bush a lot and think he was a fine president.
Adrestia Posted November 19, 2012 Posted November 19, 2012 G. W. Bush did a lot to help people with AIDS in Africa, including funding orphanages for orphaned kids. He was also better than Kerry/Edwards. Personally, I think Cyndi Lauper is underrated.
4588686 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 [quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1353265725' post='2512394'] Bush Appreciation is a learned thing. You will never get there by lazily ingesting popular culture about his IQ. I say give it 20 years. Remember Nixon -- by the end of his life he was revered. Although its true the typical American moron still only thinks of his mistakes. [/quote] What exactly did Bush do, aside from aid to Africa, that even remotely merits praise or positive recognition? And since when is Nixon revered?
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