Living Single Can Be Expensive...

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

So I've been thinking a lot over the last couple of weeks about the issue of the cost of living alone as a single individual. It seems that at least with those around my area, that it is not uncommon for people to have roommates during the college years of our lives and then maybe shortly after. For one reason or another singles often end up supporting their one bedroom apartment on there own and it can get expensive. I was Talking briefly with a priest friend and he noticed some similar things that I had. So my initial thought would be gee it would be great if a group of Catholic guys were able to maintain a property and share the communal cost of living while maintaining their secular lay staus. So I am now doing a feasibility think study right now. I would appreciate any ideas, problems ect you all might see with this type of idea.

1) focus areas/ why someone might want to join this type of thing:
a) a single guy wanting to save money by sharing rent and utility cost
b) a single guy looking for fraternal support in living the chaste Catholicsingle life, while not becoming a religious brother
c) a guy discerning the priesthood or religious life, but unable to enter yet either because of uncertainty or maybe paying off debts before entering
d) a guy who has been co-habitations with a girlfriend or fiancé and now realizes the need to love separately but because finances have become I mingled it is to difficult to support two seperated households fully

2) what would be accomplished:
a) expect guys fulfill Holy Days of Obligation and strive to live the Catholic Faith
b) be a support group for living a moral life, maintaining purity of heart, or whatever personal struggles a guy might have shared with the group
c) weekly communal meal, maybe like Sunday Dinner
d) encourage fiscal thrift in order to pay off debts, save for ----whatever the goal is
e) encourage support of the broader community through acts of charity and volunteering

3) I see this as a temporary for some, semi-permanent for some type arrangement where an individual can work towards their goal helping to support the rent/ maintenece of the house, but being able to leave when the time comes for their next adventure in life. Local Parishes can be informed of the house and recommend men they may know would benefit from such an arrangement.

So that's the nuts and bolts as I see it in my head right now. What do you think? Could this work?

[arfink]

They had houses like this near the campus where I went to seminary. They had a Catholic Men's House that sounds basically exactly like what you are describing. They had a code of etiquette there, meaning the men had to keep their rooms clean and help with communal chores, and there were strict rules about when you could make noise, when and where you could have alcohol, and when you could have guests, especially female guests. If you're curious about how that place worked in more detail I could maybe put you in contact with one of the guys who used to live there. I never lived there, so I don't know what all the rules were, but I do know they did it and it worked.

[PhuturePriest]

Sounds like an awesome idea! If I was ever in the situation I would definitely do something like that.

[carmenchristi]

That would be awesome! I live in a somewhat similar situation for women, at least the community aspect. The saving money aspect, well kind of. I live in a women's residence, in the internal of which there is a smaller community of which I am part. We have mass in common once a week, vespers every evening, 2 retreats a year and monthly meetings (usually organizational, but they are intended to be occasions for sharing what is going on in our lives, with school etc. ) we aren't allowed to have guests except in the parlor and tv room and there is a strict curfew ( no one has a key, so if you miss curfew you have to call or sleep on the street! The members of the community have a scholarship to defer the cost of room and board. So I pay about the same as for a room and utilities in a shared apartment but breakfast (well coffee and stale bread) and dinner are also included.

[Tantum Ergo]

It could definitely work if you find such an arrangement that is already established, like the other posters described - an established Catholic men's house, or Catholic community residence. 

 

It could [i]maybe[/i] work if you tried to start one on your own and somehow found a group of good Catholic young men who are actively looking for exactly what you describe. But, I'd think that those kind of people could be extremely difficult to find.

 

Frankly, most people consider themselves extremely lucky if they find a roommate who pays his portion of the rent on time, is respectful of their stuff, and is somewhat tidy. Nevermind shares your religious beliefs, desires fraternal spiritual and moral support, communal meals, and lives a chaste Catholic lifestyle. 

 

Have you ever roomed with guys before? This is just my experience, but I really felt sorry for the good, responsible guys I knew in college. It was extremely difficult for them to find reliable, respectful, and clean roommates. It seemed much easier for the girls to find decent roomates, because girls are naturally fastidious and tuned into a social order - most girls desire to keep the living area clean not only because it's more comfortable, but also because they want the other girls to like them. Guys, on the other hand, even good Catholic church-going ones, tended to be not very self-aware and lacked basic conscientiousness and responsibility. I can't tell you how many times my fiance unclogged the toilet that somebody [i]else[/i] plugged up and left, or how many times he cleaned up someone else's dishes that they left dirty in the kitchen for a week until they started to smell. No amount of discussions or dirty looks could get those guys to clean up after themselves. Forget about observing holy days together, communal meals, or sharing Christian fraternity.  :P They were hardly ever around anyway. It was hard enough for him to catch them to ask them to clean up their messes. This was not just an isolated thing. This happened to my fiance more than once. Other guys friends' I knew had the exact same problem too, year after year. 

 

I only knew of a few guys' living situations that worked out ok. This was mostly due to the fact that they were all good friends beforehand. Their room was clean, but only because one of them was the "tyrannical clean person" who somehow forced all of them to keep tidy. They watched movies, played video games, and also prayed the rosary together. But again, it probably wouldn't have worked if they weren't good friends before they roomed together.

 

Maybe guys get better once they graduate college, but I don't know. Anyway, just based on my experience and my friends' experiences, I think your expectations are a little high. If you can find something like that already established, that would be great. But trying to build such a thing on your own would be extremely difficult, I would think.

[Slappo]

If I were setting this up I'd hesitate to make communal activities such as vespers required. Instead I think I would prefer soemthing like, "The policy of the house that vespers is prayed at 6pm in the living room. All who are at the house at that time, including guests, are welcome to join."

 

Guys want independence. Forcing them to be somewhere at a specific time just because they live in a house that has those rules may not be very enticing.

 

The other thing is you need a financial backbone for this type of operation. Someone has to own the house or find a lessor who is entirely comfortable with the lessees frequently changing. Who is responsible for ensuring rent/mortgage is paid on time, that utilities are paid, etc? There would need to be at least one stable individual who committed to staying and being the contact person for that type of stuff. Maybe it even means that guy gets $25 a month or a decreased portion of rent for taking care of the administrative nuts and bolts.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Slappo

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Slappo I think you on the train of thought I was having, The idea of Holy Days and communal prayers would not be a requirement, but a culture of expect ants that if you are available this is something we want to do. When I mentioned this to my SD (my priest friend who made similar observations) he saw this as a place especially for guys who are discerning, but just not quite there yet. The idea is not to be a Religious Order "light", so I think a rule of life would not be quite the idea. There is currently nothing of this nature in my area at all. I know a Parishiner who has a 4 bedroom house he rents, but because of the size it is difficult to find tenants to keep it full. I think he might be willing to support this idea with that house, at least on a trial basis.

Tantrum Ergo, as to your question of if I have had roommates, I have. I lived in a Fraternity during college, and have have a combination of four other apartments with different groups of roommates from two others, to just another individual. I also have lived the communal military life, so I feel like I am prepared to understand guys in their various levels of grossness, laziness and ways to positively and helpfully encourage a sanitary living situation. I also figure that most of the guys are going to be at least in there 20s so are slightly further down the trail of personal growth...although not all.

I have an older friend (early 60s) who is single and had discerned a religious vocation for awhile when he was you ger before moving on. He's looking at needing to move here in the early New Year. I am going to meet with him tonight to talk about this with him. I already shared a sketched IDE with him and he like the idea. I think we might start just getting a 2 bedroom, and then start working some details more.

I appreciate everyone's comments as it makes me think through the details more.

PAX

[PhuturePriest]

If I were setting this up I'd hesitate to make communal activities such as vespers required. Instead I think I would prefer soemthing like, "The policy of the house that vespers is prayed at 6pm in the living room. All who are at the house at that time, including guests, are welcome to join."

 

Guys want independence. Forcing them to be somewhere at a specific time just because they live in a house that has those rules may not be very enticing.

 

The other thing is you need a financial backbone for this type of operation. Someone has to own the house or find a lessor who is entirely comfortable with the lessees frequently changing. Who is responsible for ensuring rent/mortgage is paid on time, that utilities are paid, etc? There would need to be at least one stable individual who committed to staying and being the contact person for that type of stuff. Maybe it even means that guy gets $25 a month or a decreased portion of rent for taking care of the administrative nuts and bolts.

 

I'm with you on that. I think the rules may be getting a little far. Like not having guests without permission, or only having girlfriends over at specific times. I can see having a curfew for girlfriends being over at like midnight, but I think having to have permission to have them there period and only having them there at specified times is a little much. At some point these are guys (Likely college-age guys) and guys like to make noise, have fun, and be themselves. Repressing too many rights to do fun stuff may be too much for most guys. I know I wouldn't want to live in a place where I couldn't play music or make noise after eight in the evening, and I certainly wouldn't want to live at a place where friends weren't allowed to stay over. Though I definitely agree with the cleaning rule. I have seen what happens at male dorm rooms, and it isn't pretty. Though again I think we can go too far with the cleaning rules as well.

 

My suggestion would be to have rules, but give the guys a little freedom to be guys is all. I also worry that making it only for men discerning the Priesthood and religious life may be a problem as well. What if one of them discerns out? Do they have to leave?

[Vincent Vega]

 

Guys want independence. Forcing them to be somewhere at a specific time just because they live in a house that has those rules may not be very enticing.

 

 

Yeah, this. I don't get drunk at my apartment, don't make noise or turn on lights and so forth at unreasonable hours, keep my room reasonably together, etc, but I think it would really turn me off if I had someone tell me that I couldn't do those things. 

[Nihil Obstat]

Yeah, this. I don't get drunk at my apartment, don't make noise or turn on lights and so forth at unreasonable hours, keep my room reasonably together, etc, but I think it would really turn me off if I had someone tell me that I couldn't do those things. 

 

I would probably drink more if there were some nosy boy scout telling me not to every couple days. :|

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

I also worry that making it only for men discerning the Priesthood and religious life may be a problem as well. What if one of them discerns out? Do they have to leave?

FP refer to the OP, the concept is not really limited to anything other than Single male who wants to have a semi-communal opportunity in support of their faith while maintaining a good portion of individual autonomy. Reason might be discernment, financial, or whatever. So no if someone discerns not to Seminary or a Eeligious Order, they wouldn't have to leave from that alone, they could stay work stabilize and move on when they are ready.