Can A Consecrated Virgin Become A Diocesan Hermit Or Vice Versa?

December 30, 2012

Since the permanence of the consecration of religious profession has been brought up a few times...

St. Thomas thought that one could NOT be dispensed from the vow of perpetual continence and in his time one couldn't. But the Church has decreed otherwise and now it is so.

St. Thomas taught that solemn profession (there were no simple vows) was a total and complete holocaust. I was taught that although one can be dispensed from the obligations of the vows one cannot be dispensed from the solemn consecration. Only God can do that. The effects of this consecration remain even if a person were to get married. I was told that in the formula of dispensation from the Holy Father it is worded, "in so far as I am I dispense you." I haven't seen it with my own eyes but I was told this by a Dominican friar.

You will notice that in the reply from CRIS it says that one may be dispensed from the OBLIGATIONS of the Consecration. The language is very careful and precise.

I would be very hesitant to use the word "seal". St. Thomas taught that the effects of profession are quasi-sacramental and there is a permanence but to use the word seal can confuse the consecration of virgins with the indelible seal of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders.

Consecration of Virgins is a very beautiful and necessary vocation for the life of the Church but I think it is important to not "puff" it up. Objectively, it is the vow of obedience that is the "highest" because it is the offering of the highest part of ourselves, our will, to God. In the vow of obedience we become more perfectly configured to Christ, who in obedience to the Father, offered his life for the world.

I would also say that suggesting that the vocation of virgin, bride, mother of the cloistered nuns (consecrated as a virgin or not) not be exercised it to misunderstand the vocation of the cloistered nun. She is probably the most intense of spiritual mothers because her vocation is to be the mother of souls in a very real way that is not mediated by an apostolate.

We Dominicans have never placed a lot of emphasis on the bridal imagery because we follow the Cistercians in understanding our life more as monastic. And we have never had the consecration of virgins except for St. Margaret of Hungary who did it in order to be free of the marriages her family kept wanting to impose on her!

December 30, 2012

Thank you, SMC for that informative reply! Interesting insight into the vow of obedience also. People always say it is the toughest .. which reminds me of this quote from an article I recently read,

"No money. No men. No movement. No problem. Following orders, that was the challenge." http://www.cleveland.com/religion/index.ssf/2006/12/a_secluded_path_inside_the_cha.html

I was working on this reply last night and never got to finish .. but here about is what I wanted to say (sorry if I repeat myself a lot/don't write the most articulately)

... I think the Sacramentality of her vocation as virgin, bride , mother will shine in her life. It will also produce a well-spring in the seal of consecration, that pours out compassion with a truly maternal impact on the community thru prayer and charity or other services. This I believe is the specific grace of this vocation lived in its strict identity and mission.

2. When this Rite of consecration to a life of virginity is conferred on women leading monastic life , due to strict separation from the world , the Sacramentality as virgin, bride, mother will either be absent or expressed only as a community. Hence monastics receiving the rite are normally not called consecrated virgins.

...

Similarly a consecrated virgin is called to be 100 per cent set apart for the Sacramentality as virgin, bride, mother but if she lives in a monastery or is a hermit , although in God's eyes she may be as close to Him and as holy as a CV living her vocation strictly , the Sacramentality will be greatly reduced perhaps. The full effect of the seal impressed on her soul may not manifest itself according to the purpose of the Rite.

I find all of this very confusing ... what do you mean by Sacramentality (as virgin bride and mother)? I would agree that as a visible sign/presence/witness, along with their external actions/deeds/corporal works of mercy, etc. that yes, cloistered nuns would not be present to the Church in this way, only within their communities (although by their very lives lived totally focused on God and the visible presence of their monasteries in the world, they witness/are visible signs to all that "God alone is enough"/is the whole purpose of our lives in this world, etc.)

But besides that (the outward sign/deeds) I disagree (regarding your saying the grace received from the Rite would be absent or only expressed within their community), as it completely leaves out the hidden apostolic mission of cloistered contemplative nuns. Their fulfillment of love towards one's neighbor is not limited to the other nuns within their community; it reaches out to the entire world and this is how they are spiritual mothers, as Sr. MC pointed out (as I am sure you are aware, so thus I am confused by your conclusion) Their mission is to cooperate in the redemption of mankind in a hidden and most efficacious way by their lives of prayer/union with God, which the cloistered monastic life aides greatly, separating them from many distractions of the world so they can focus entirely (100%) on their mission and union with Him.

"To be Thy Spouse, O Jesus, and by my union with Thee, to be the mother of souls!" - St. Therese

The mission to be virgin, bride & mother fits in completely with that of cloistered nuns (see Verbi Sponsa)

Since there is a Rite for them (monastic women) and another for those not in religious life, cannot it simply be that this Sacramentality you speak of for CVs has two different expressions/effects/channels of grace for two different lifestyles/missions/vocations? Both of them exist and are approved by the Church.

Anyway, I just wanted to make this point so you might give some more thought to this theory regarding the grace received from the Rite being limited in cloistered nuns/monastic women (& female canonical hermits also, whose missions/lives are comparable, lived out in a different way)

Another quote from a Carmelite :heart:

"To be the bride of Christ!

I must live all that this name implies of love given and received, of intimacy, of fidelity, of absolute devotion!

To be a bride means to be given as He gave Himself; it means to be sacrificed as He was, by Him, for Himâ€¦It is Christ making Himself all ours and we becoming â€œall His!â€

To be a bride means to have all rights over His Heartâ€¦ It is a heart-to-heart exchange for a whole lifetimeâ€¦

It is to live withâ€¦always withâ€¦It means to rest from everything in Him, and to allow Him to rest from everything in our soul!

It means to know nothing else than to love, to love while adoring, to love while making reparation, to love while praying, while asking, while forgetting oneself; to love always in every way!

To be a bride means to have eyes only for Him, our thoughts haunted by Him, our heart wholly taken over, wholly possessed, as if it has passed out of itself and into Him; our soul filled with His Soul, filled with His prayer, our whole being captivated and given.

It means, by keeping our gaze always fixed on Him, to discover His least sign, His least desire; it means to enter into all His joys, to share all His sadness.

It means to be fruitful, a co-redeemer, to bring souls to birth in grace, to multiply the adopted children of the Father, the redeemed of Christ, the co-heirs of His glory.

"To be a bride," a bride of Carmel, means to have the flaming heart of Elijah, the transpierced heart of Teresa, His â€œtrue brideâ€ because she was zealous for His honor.

Finally, to be taken as bride, as mystical bride, means to have ravished His Heart to the extent, that, forgetting all distance, the Word pours Himself out in the soul as in the bosom of the Father with the same ecstasy of infinite Love! It is the Father, the Word and the Spirit possessing the soul, deifying it, consuming it in the One by love."

â€“ Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity, OCD

p.s. to Sr. SMC .. yes, the spousal image is much more emphasized in Carmel than for Dominicans, and I completely respect your tradition. Also, thank you for pointing out which Dominican it was who received the Rite of Consecration of Virgins. I had heard of her but have been wondering who it was for a while. In a thread from a year ago or so abrideofChrist said it was Princess Margaret but I wasn't sure who that was. Now I know :like:

Also, thank you for the references from St. Thomas and what you learned regarding the solemn consecration that occurs at profession. I thought you had mentioned this previously a long time ago .. that there is a dimension of Solemn Profession that cannot be undone, but I wasn't sure what it was after learning that the vows, or rather OBLIGATIONS of the vows, can be dispensed by the Holy Father. Thanks for sharing this again with us! I attended the Solemn Profession of a Benedictine Monk today btw, and it was most inspiring!

Edited December 30, 2012 by Chiquitunga

December 30, 2012

Thank you for the responses. It is probably best I not read this thread - it is too confusing for me and this is not hard to do. To my mind, nothing can be more important nor greater in life and in any aspect whatsoever of life, of more merit to The Church, mankind and to self, ithan The Will of God for a person - and to embrace it lovingly and with Joy and simply for what it is and no matter what it may be - and that keeps things nice and simple and understandable for the likes of me.

Religious obedience (just for an example) might be a call from God and to others a different call entirely with different necessary Graces, and further down on the scale of things in theological thinking perhaps. With His Call comes all the necessary Graces. What binds all in complete theological unity and equality is that they are expressions of God's Will which is higher than religious obedience itself and far greater, of more value to the life of The Church, mankind and self. It is like St Paul pointed out - and something like that it would by dysfunctional (contrary to the Will of God) if a mouth wanted to hear or the ears to walk. We are the Mystical Body of Christ and each has their particular very necessary function in the life of The Church. All vocations and calls are "very necessary" to the life of The Church simply because they are expressions of His Will.

All rules to me are never ends in themselves, rather they are servants to a greater good. Religious obedience, for example again, serves that a religious may know, love and embrace, the Will of God for him or her. Obedience for say a lay person has a completely different expression insofar as the rules for that obedience are concerned, and remain The Will of God for a lay person that that person may know, love and embrace the Will of God for him or her. Both expressions walk in the footsteps of Jesus and His complete obedience to the Will of God for Him, though it meant a shocking, cruel and shameful slow death.

Edited December 30, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

December 31, 2012

I had to add this and after loosing my edit function, and attempting to clarify matters in my own mind and hopefully in accord with our theology. And I also find that writing striving for accuracy can help me sort out my thoughts.

Religious Life is the state of perfection as The Church states, and we are all called to perfection/holiness, hence the way of perfection outside of religious life will be a way of chastity, poverty and obedience IN ACCORD with one's particular vocation and call from God.

Being in the state of perfection of course is not a guarantee that one will attain holiness. It is all going to depend on how one lives out one's vocation to religious life. Certainly, as The Church states, religious life is that state in life in which holiness will be more readily and easily attained. It is also a witness to Heaven and to holiness ideally. Not all are called to religious life and those that are are called are not more loved nor more worthy. We are all loved equally and not one of us is worthy of anything whatsoever. Every vocation and call from God is of immense value and profit to The Church if lived in a spirit of true poverty, chastity and obedience - and simply because each is an expression of God's Will who is always acting in the very best interests of The Church and mankind and of each individual (the common good) and He will grant the necessary Graces, no matter one's state in life nor one's vocation, to attain holiness. Why The Lord grants the necessary qualities and Graces to one person and not to another is mystery and there it remains always as mystery. It is nothing related to the actual individual but rather to the common good. He disperses His Gifts, including The Cross, as He May. It is a mystery of one person created with certain qualities and gifted certain Graces in order that the common good may be served by this person in this manner "perfecting His work" ***(see quote box below)

Anything else, it seems to me, would deny those outside of religious life any hope of holiness. And we know that while we have many religious etc. who are saints and raised to the altars of The Church, we also have many likewise who were not in the consecrated life at all.

And The Lord raises some to the altars, and some not. The ones that are illustrate what holiness is all about and expressed within the terms of their particular state in life.

*** John Ch4[34] Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, that I may perfect his work".....................Matthew Ch16 "Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

We cannot literally live the life of Jesus on earth and are not called to do so, rather we strive to take up the spirit in which He lived it and all are granted the necessary Graces to live their own particular and unique vocation journey in the Holy Spirit of Jesus, who was poor, chaste and obedient to His Father. Jesus had a particular task/mission/brief/ in His own life - and so do we and to serve the common good as faithful Catholics in our own particular vocation, perfecting the work of The Father. How can such as I in any way accomplish these things. I cannot for one single iota of a second, but God can do all things and disperses His Graces accordingly and The Lord is overwhelmingly Humble. Mine is the duty and Joy to respond to God's Will and His Grace no matter where it may take me..........in the footsteps of the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels: thou hast crowned him with glory and honour, and hast set him over the works of thy hands: [8] Thou hast subjected all things under his feet. For in that he hath subjected all things to him, he left nothing not subject to him. But now we see not as yet all things subject to him. [9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God, he might taste death for all. [10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, who had brought many children into glory, to perfect the author of their salvation, by his passion.

From this rickety, very ricketyest, armchair. At least I can make sense of it all for myself and hope and pray that it is theologically correct which is necessary always and truth it seems to me need always be all embracing since The Lord embraces all with Love and Compassion conferring on all the astounding dignity of being His Creation, His beloved children, and each and every one of us unique, a one-of-only and called to a particular and unique mission that no other individual can complete. Every single person must be appreciated, esteemed and loved - encouraged along their particular vocation or call and ideally with a real sense of call, vocation and dignity, immense value. Matthew Ch25 "Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me." This is an amazing, moving and challenging statement. It could indeed be a frightening statement. The Lord is as present in that drunk drug addicted person asleep in the alley, in the heretic and 'cafeteria catholic' etc etc as He is in The Holy Father.

December 31, 2012

Dear Sr Laurel,

It seems I did not express clearly what I am hinting. Please let me elaborate my perspective.

It is true that the Second Vatican Council removed the concept of degree or gradation of consecration. Even the issue of Solemn or Simple vows is now left to the internal tradition of each institute or vocation. The New Code of Canon law 1983 specifies the equality of dignity of all the baptized in the call to holiness.

What I propose is gradations in the effect of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity [ the Sacramentality as virgin, bride,mother ]. I'm not discussing gradation of consecration in comparing two different rites , one for a life of virginity , another for a life of the silence of solitude , or a profession of vows in a religious institute etc.

The term 'consecration' itself implies involvement of the Whole person for the entire lifetime , being set apart for a particular calling or purpose of God. Whether thru the sacrament of marriage or holy orders, or consecration as a hermit or virgin or widow or to the charism of a religious institute etc. each ideally should involve a total consecration. However real life is not so neat. A married person may be living 70 per cent as a married person and 30 per cent like a hermit in solitude. A member of a religious inst. may be devoted 70 per cent to the purpose of her institute and 30 per cent to being a leaven in the temporal matters of the world. In real life there is often some overlap of vocations.

Similarly a consecrated virgin is called to be 100 per cent set apart for the Sacramentality as virgin, bride, mother but if she lives in a monastery or is a hermit , although in God's eyes she may be as close to Him and as holy as a CV living her vocation strictly , the Sacramentality will be greatly reduced perhaps. The full effect of the seal impressed on her soul may not manifest itself according to the purpose of the Rite.

Psychological theories explain how a Clear Identity has several positive effects in ones life and releases a lot of potential. If a CV is focused on her vocation , the potential of cons. virginity will be released in her life. If she mixes up two or more vocational identities, she may still be very close to God but she will not be able to live her consecration fully. In her own life there can be gradations of the effect of the seal of consecration.

If I'm still not clear - I'll elaborate further. Actually such a discussion helps a lot to think aloud . Thanks !

Thanks for elaborating. I think I understand what you are saying and I still disagree that there are gradations in the effect of the consecration. What you may be trying to say is one person lives and expresses the graces of consecration either differently, or in other cases less clearly and sometimes even less well than another. I don't think we are speaking of the effect of the consecration however, but rather differences in the nature and quality of the response TO that consecration. If we speak of gradations of effect then that is essentially the same as speaking of distinctions in degree of consecration. The entire idea of "gradations" apart from the person's own response is one the Church has moved away from and yet, we have a constant temptation to return to it. There are a couple of other aspects to a vocation which may be more helpful that speaking of gradations in the effect of the consecration. Those include charism and mission and I refer to those more below.

Regarding gradations, as a hermit one of the things I REALLY object to is someone saying, "Oh well, I am alone five hours a day while my husband and children are away from the house, so I am a hermit part of the time". In point of fact this person is 100% married and part of that 100% is time in solitude just as it is for any person of piety and prayer. They are in no sense (and no-percentage) a hermit because of this. The same is true of people who simply don't go out or much relate to others for some of the week. They are not hermits for that percentage of the time and non-hermits the rest. (Frankly, if they lived alone 100% of the time and were fairly pious this would STILL NOT necessarily make them a hermit in any essential way.) Similarly the eremitical life I live is no less eremitical because of ministry I do at my parish. I am not 99% hermit and 1% pastoral assistant, for instance. To the extent I live my life with integrity I am 100% hermit who is ALSO, as a result of her eremitical vocation (graces, charism and mission) a pastoral assistant. The first completely qualifies the second. In the same way while I am called to live the silence of solitude as the charism of my vocation, I really dislike stereotypes of how that or any other aspect of the eremitical life actually looks. It is true there are non-negotiables which MUST be lived, but discerning how these are to be expressed or lived out in our needy world is not always so straightforwrd. Consecration allows me to more clearly discern what these are and to respond appropriately.

By the way, theologically we do not speak of the seal of consecration and we would be careful to not capitalize "sacramentality" in its regard. Certain Sacraments impart a seal which can never be lost (Baptism, Ordination), but consecration is not spoken of in this way. Consecration by God sets us apart in a stable STATE OF LIFE. That is as true of consecrated virginity as it is of eremitical or religious life. I know that some CV's speak of an ontological change with the character of a seal taking place, but at this time there is no place for this in the theology of consecrated life per se. Definitely CV's are called into a stable state of life and are known as brides of Christ; this is a public identity with public rights and obligations, but the attempt to distinguish the consecration of the CV from that received in perpetual profession by the hermit or religious is problematical at best unless we use other terms (graces, mission, charism).

Some suggest the difference comes from the fact that God consecrates the person, that is they don't consecrate themselves via vows as religious do, but that ignores two facts: 1) perpetual profession of vows (the dedication NOT consecration of self via vows) is accompanied and completed by a prayer of solemn consecration which does what the prayer in the Rite of consecration of CV's living in the world does. There is no suggestion that it does anything less or more than any other act of consecration (I don't think it can literally be called a marriage for instance), 2) the graces attending this consecration may differ where the consecration does not. For instance I am called to live out the charism of the silence of solitude, but I am not necessarily called to live out charisms of bride or mother; I am graced as is necessary to live out my consecration. Consider that one diocesan hermit may be called to some degree of ministry while a second one may be called to complete reclusion. They are both 100% hermits and we can presume they are also both entirely responsive to the graces of their vocations and thus to the "effects of consecration," but they are called to different expressions of eremitical life and thus, to some extent different vocations despite the same eremitical consecration. Similarly (referring to CV's only) a woman called to be a CV living in the world does NOT have precisely the same graces (or even the same vocation despite an identical consecration) as a woman called to be a CV in the monastery.

Should the second woman leave her monastic life, she cannot simply conclude she is called to live as a CV living in the world. She leaves the consecrated state of life in leaving the monastery and would need to discern a separate vocation to canon 604. In the past some have written and thought about treating religious profession and consecration as a Sacrament which imparts an unchangeable character to the one solemnly professed. That is not part of our theology of consecration however; the emphasis on initiation into a stable state of life accompanied by specific graces, marked by a specific charism and mission, makes this unnecessary and takes care of the need proponents were trying to address in this alternate way.

all my best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

December 31, 2012

Similarly (referring to CV's only) a woman called to be a CV living in the world does NOT have precisely the same graces (or even the same vocation despite an identical consecration) as a woman called to be a CV in the monastery.

Should the second woman leave her monastic life, she cannot simply conclude she is called to live as a CV living in the world. She leaves the consecrated state of life in leaving the monastery and would need to discern a separate vocation to canon 604.

While I agree with a lot of what you have said, I would have to disagree here. The consecration to a life of virginity is lifelong, whether received by a nun or by a woman in the world. Hence one of the practical problems discussed at the 2008 international conference in Rome happened to be the problem of Benedictines in a South American country who receive the Consecration and then at some point leave. The problem was that while the solemn vows were dispensed, they were still consecrated virgins. This is one reason why traditionally certain Orders only consecrate the virgins 10-25 years after solemn profession - to ensure perpetual virginity.

In the past some have written and thought about treating religious profession and consecration as a Sacrament which imparts an unchangeable character to the one solemnly professed. That is not part of our theology of consecration however; the emphasis on initiation into a stable state of life accompanied by specific graces, marked by a specific charism and mission, makes this unnecessary and takes care of the need proponents were trying to address in this alternate way.

I think one thoughtful question that must be asked is why is it that as I have indicated in an earlier thread, the consecration to a life of virginity (as a nun or in the world) is forever and the consecration of a religious is not?

all my best,
Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

December 31, 2012

Since the permanence of the consecration of religious profession has been brought up a few times...
St. Thomas thought that one could NOT be dispensed from the vow of perpetual continence and in his time one couldn't. But the Church has decreed otherwise and now it is so.

True. This is a matter of discipline. Does the Church have the power over the consecration of CVs? Is it a matter of discipline or not?

St. Thomas taught that solemn profession (there were no simple vows) was a total and complete holocaust. I was taught that although one can be dispensed from the obligations of the vows one cannot be dispensed from the solemn consecration. Only God can do that. The effects of this consecration remain even if a person were to get married. I was told that in the formula of dispensation from the Holy Father it is worded, "in so far as I am I dispense you." I haven't seen it with my own eyes but I was told this by a Dominican friar.

You will notice that in the reply from CRIS it says that one may be dispensed from the OBLIGATIONS of the Consecration. The language is very careful and precise.

I would be very hesitant to use the word "seal". St. Thomas taught that the effects of profession are quasi-sacramental and there is a permanence but to use the word seal can confuse the consecration of virgins with the indelible seal of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders.

Consecration of Virgins is a very beautiful and necessary vocation for the life of the Church but I think it is important to not "puff" it up. Objectively, it is the vow of obedience that is the "highest" because it is the offering of the highest part of ourselves, our will, to God. In the vow of obedience we become more perfectly configured to Christ, who in obedience to the Father, offered his life for the world.

Certainly the vow of obedience is very high. That is why religious priests are "higher" than diocesan/secular priests. You might say the same for religious CVs versus secular CVs.

I would also say that suggesting that the vocation of virgin, bride, mother of the cloistered nuns (consecrated as a virgin or not) not be exercised it to misunderstand the vocation of the cloistered nun. She is probably the most intense of spiritual mothers because her vocation is to be the mother of souls in a very real way that is not mediated by an apostolate.

We Dominicans have never placed a lot of emphasis on the bridal imagery because we follow the Cistercians in understanding our life more as monastic. And we have never had the consecration of virgins except for St. Margaret of Hungary who did it in order to be free of the marriages her family kept wanting to impose on her!

December 31, 2012

............... To my mind, nothing can be more important nor greater in life and in any aspect whatsoever of life, of more merit to The Church, mankind and to self, ithan The Will of God for a person - and to embrace it lovingly and with Joy and simply for what it is and no matter what it may be

.................. With His Call comes all the necessary Graces. What binds all in complete theological unity and equality is that they are expressions of God's Will which is higher than religious obedience itself and far greater, of more value to the life of The Church, mankind and self. It is like St Paul pointed out - and something like that it would by dysfunctional (contrary to the Will of God) if a mouth wanted to hear or the ears to walk. We are the Mystical Body of Christ and each has their particular very necessary function in the life of The Church. All vocations and calls are "very necessary" to the life of The Church simply because they are expressions of His Will.

..................... Obedience for say a lay person has a completely different expression insofar as the rules for that obedience are concerned, and remain The Will of God for a lay person that that person may know, love and embrace the Will of God for him or her. Both expressions walk in the footsteps of Jesus and His complete obedience to the Will of God for Him, though it meant a shocking, cruel and shameful slow death.

:winner:

December 31, 2012

Religious Life is the state of perfection as The Church states, and we are all called to perfection/holiness, hence the way of perfection outside of religious life will be a way of chastity, poverty and obedience IN ACCORD with one's particular vocation and call from God.

Every baptised person is called to follow Christ in the spirit of the Beatitudes from which the evangelical counsels of religious life are derived . True , HOW each one lives the Beatitudes will vary according to ones vocation !

December 31, 2012

Every baptised person is called to follow Christ in the spirit of the Beatitudes from which the evangelical counsels of religious life are derived . True , HOW each one lives the Beatitudes will vary according to ones vocation !

The Evangelical Counsels are not drawn from The Beatitudes, rather from the Person of Jesus Himself and how He lived His life as the Poor, Chaste and Obedient One and in perfect Charity. (see quotation box 1.below - sorry quotation things wont work)

It is Charity that dictates how and when, why, The Beatitudes are to be applied in every life no matter vocation. (See quotation box 2. below and quotes from the CCC) Each baptized person is called to follow Jesus in His Spirit of poverty, chastity and obedience in accord with their particular vocation and in the spirit of The Beatitudes as Charity may dictate.

The Beatitudes fulfils those Promises of God in the Old Law and are intended to remove what is incompatible with Charity. (see quotation box 2. below) Jesus lived His Life as the perfect poor, chaste and obedient One and in the perfection of The Beatitudes ordered perfectly by Perfect Charity.

As I said in another post, it can be very difficult to discern whether a poster is quoting what is Church teaching, or their own concepts and opinions. Links are always helpful, even necessary to seal the authenticity of what is stated as being Church teaching.

I was reading a thread on Catholic Answers earlier on the eremitical life under Canon 603 and by a person educated in Church theology and consecrated under Canon 603...and trying to sort my head out. At the start of the thread, the poster uses consecrated in relation to a privately vowed (evangelical counsels) lay person and then much further on in the thread develops and switches to the word â€œdedicatedâ€ lay person to distinguish from â€œconsecratedâ€ person in the consecrated state and as an official Church distinction â€“ but no links to reliable sources to support the â€˜developmentâ€™ or switchover. This makes me wonder if The Church has anywhere made such a distinction (particularly in view of what I have quoted from Vita Consecrata in relation to private "special consecration" as stated in VITA CONSECRATA "The Consecrated Life" or whether it is a personâ€™s or group of personsâ€™ particular concept/notions. I did wonder why the word â€œconsecratedâ€ was used in relation to a lay person under private vows to the evangelical counsels initially in the thread â€“ and then much later this is â€˜quietlyâ€™ changed to â€œdedicated personâ€ and as an official Church distinction without a reliable resource quoted to support the statements.

As I have said beforeâ€¦â€¦â€¦.it is all very most conffffusinggggg!

I think I might have a drink to kiss it goodbye when that jolly piece of mistletoe disappears from Phatmass hopefully at the end of the Christmas Season (more confusion) - as well meaning as I feel that jolly annoying mistletoe is.

Off much too late (and my own fault - ah well I'm on holidays) to Night Prayer on the Solemnity of Mary,Mother of God. :harp:

It always annoys me outstandingly outta sight that I seem to always have a reason and rationalization for faults and failings, for missteps, commissions and omissions.........rather than own up immediately to the fact that I am a consistent sinner.

QUOTATION BOX 1.

Vita Consecrata

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_25031996_vita-consecrata_en.html

By the profession of the evangelical counsels the characteristic features of Jesus â€” the chaste, poor and obedient one â€” are made constantly "visible" in the midst of the world and the eyes of the faithful are directed towards the mystery of the Kingdom of God already at work in history, even as it awaits its full realization in heaven.

QUOTATION BOX 2.

Catholic Catechism

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a1.htm

1966 The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:

If anyone should meditate with devotion and perspicacity on the sermon our Lord gave on the mount, as we read in the Gospel of Saint Matthew, he will doubtless find there . . . the perfect way of the Christian life. . . . This sermon contains . . . all the precepts needed to shape one's life.²⁰

1967 The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection.²¹ In the Beatitudes, the New Law fulfills the divine promises by elevating and orienting them toward the "kingdom of heaven." It is addressed to those open to accepting this new hope with faith - the poor, the humble, the afflicted, the pure of heart, those persecuted on account of Christ and so marks out the surprising ways of the Kingdom.

1973 Besides its precepts, the New Law also includes the evangelical counsels. The traditional distinction between God's commandments and the evangelical counsels is drawn in relation to charity, the perfection of Christian life. The precepts are intended to remove whatever is incompatible with charity. The aim of the counsels is to remove whatever might hinder the development of charity, even if it is not contrary to it.³²

1974 The evangelical counsels manifest the living fullness of charity, which is never satisfied with not giving more. They attest its vitality and call forth our spiritual readiness. The perfection of the New Law consists essentially in the precepts of love of God and neighbor. The counsels point out the more direct ways, the readier means, and are to be practiced in keeping with the vocation of each:

[God] does not want each person to keep all the counsels, but only those appropriate to the diversity of persons, times, opportunities, and strengths, as charity requires; for it is charity, as queen of all virtues, all commandments, all counsels, and, in short, of all laws and all Christian actions that gives to all of them their rank, order, time, and value.³³

Edited December 31, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

December 31, 2012

This discussion is like a Dream come true. Since long I've been wanting to discuss with persons experienced in the spiritual life, knowledgeable in theology and also those who are seasoned in the consecrated life .

THANKS TO EACH ONE OF YOU !!! :bananarap:

Thanks for elaborating. I think I understand what you are saying and I still disagree that there are gradations in the effect of the consecration. What you may be trying to say is one person lives and expresses the graces of consecration either differently, or in other cases less clearly and sometimes even less well than another. I don't think we are speaking of the effect of the consecration however, but rather differences in the nature and quality of the response TO that consecration. If we speak of gradations of effect then that is essentially the same as speaking of distinctions in degree of consecration. The entire idea of "gradations" apart from the person's own response is one the Church has moved away from and yet, we have a constant temptation to return to it. There are a couple of other aspects to a vocation which may be more helpful that speaking of gradations in the effect of the consecration. Those include charism and mission and I refer to those more below.

Well , my idea of variation in the effect of the consecration comes from a context where CV is considered inferior to religious life in most parts of the world , by the hierarchy , religious and laity. Hence there are CVs who may feel that we have tried to give ourselves completely to God and the service of the church according to the charism of CV------but this is not valued by rest of the church. The issue here is not a lack of response to the consecration on behalf of the candidate , but the lack of co- operation of the hierarchy and laity to live the vocation fully.

Spiritually I know a person can be a channel of God's grace to the church and world even if the vocation is lived in discretion. But the Sign value will not be expressed. According to me this is a much desired aspect of the vocation according to the Rite itself. [ Sign value is important to this charism of virginity. e.g. In dealing with youth , I've come across some who strayed from the path of purity but shared how they were touched by encountering another young person who is committed to virginity for her entire life , while living and working in the same world with the same temptations etc. ] Naturally this witness is specific to the charism of CVs who do not live in the security of a convent or monastery. The term Sacramentality seemed more appropriate because the witness of CV brings about a transformation in the lives of other youth. It is more than a Sign.

Regarding Sacramentality as mother I just thought of Bl Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Motherhood shined in her life and transformed people to reach out to the destitute. I have not seen such a wellspring of compassion in the lives of many CVs. She was more than a Sign . Her life was Sacramental.

Perhaps thats one of the reasons we say the Church is a Sacrament of salvation.

Maybe instead of degree of consecration what happens could be termed growth stages in appropriating the grace of the consecration. In religious life there are various stages before final profession. in the vocation of CV , her life shines most as a young virgin who is first privately resolved to remain a virgin for love of Christ. She grows to ask for consecration to become a bride , often with motivations of gaining spiritual consolation. As she matures , she embraces the church family , serves it , thus becoming a mother.

These stages of growth from virgin to bride to mother depend on the co operation between the CV, the Bishop and the Church community.

I know that some CV's speak of an ontological change with the character of a seal taking place, but at this time there is no place for this in the theology of consecrated life per se. Definitely CV's are called into a stable state of life and are known as brides of Christ; this is a public identity with public rights and obligations, but the attempt to distinguish the consecration of the CV from that received in perpetual profession by the hermit or religious is problematical at best unless we use other terms (graces, mission, charism).

To see the difference between the prayer of consecration in the rite of consecration of virgins and the rite of religious profession , I'm trying to put the links to these rites and google books on liturgy describing the theology of these rites , writings of the Holy Father , etc. on a word document and uploading it in few minutes or hours.

Shall write more . New to Phatmass , so a bit slow. Sometimes the Edit feature disappears or the Quote boxes don't seem to split or can't write outside the Quote box etc. Could these be related to an older version of firefox browser on a Windows 8 ? Also , it seems multiple links are not getting saved in one post ?

Dealing with a sudden attack by red ants in my room and an ongoing RCT for a tooth with some complications. Pls pray for me!

Some suggest the difference comes from the fact that God consecrates the person, that is they don't consecrate themselves via vows as religious do, but that ignores two facts: 1) perpetual profession of vows (the dedication NOT consecration of self via vows) is accompanied and completed by a prayer of solemn consecration which does what the prayer in the Rite of consecration of CV's living in the world does. There is no suggestion that it does anything less or more than any other act of consecration (I don't think it can literally be called a marriage for instance), 2) the graces attending this consecration may differ where the consecration does not. For instance I am called to live out the charism of the silence of solitude, but I am not necessarily called to live out charisms of bride or mother; I am graced as is necessary to live out my consecration. Consider that one diocesan hermit may be called to some degree of ministry while a second one may be called to complete reclusion. They are both 100% hermits and we can presume they are also both entirely responsive to the graces of their vocations and thus to the "effects of consecration," but they are called to different expressions of eremitical life and thus, to some extent different vocations despite the same eremitical consecration. Similarly (referring to CV's only) a woman called to be a CV living in the world does NOT have precisely the same graces (or even the same vocation despite an identical consecration) as a woman called to be a CV in the monastery.

Should the second woman leave her monastic life, she cannot simply conclude she is called to live as a CV living in the world. She leaves the consecrated state of life in leaving the monastery and would need to discern a separate vocation to canon 604. In the past some have written and thought about treating religious profession and consecration as a Sacrament which imparts an unchangeable character to the one solemnly professed. That is not part of our theology of consecration however; the emphasis on initiation into a stable state of life accompanied by specific graces, marked by a specific charism and mission, makes this unnecessary and takes care of the need proponents were trying to address in this alternate way.

all my best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

December 31, 2012

I'm elaborating on the difference between the consecration of virgins and rite of religious profession, due to which the former has always been considered permanent in the history of the church while the rite of religious profession of simple vows is not considered permanent :

a. http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/122838-bride-of-christ/

abrideofchrist has mentioned some differences between the prayer of consecration of virgins and the prayer of blessing or consecration of the professed for religious.

I will try to attach a word document with links to the google books containing the rite of profession and other references.

b. The consecration of a virgin can only be conferred by a bishop whereas religious profession may be presided over by a priest.

c. Consecration of virgins is NOT Religious life but a Diocese-based life. Perhaps in future the Church might consider giving the consecration of virgins the status as sacrament as it was in the first 12 centuries ? I am not implying that the Church should do so, but the similarity with sacraments gives enough ground for some theologians to think along those lines. Personally I keep a neutral position .

d. Barbara mentioned that only the Church is Bride of Christ and CV is mentioned in some places as 'spouse of Christ' . Following are ref to the title given to CVs

In the Examination of the candidate in the rite of consecration of a virgin, the bishop asks :

â€œAre you resolved to accept solemn consecration as a bride of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God?â€

Hence she is not just an image of the Bride of Christ the Church , but is gifted with the title and vocation of the Church as virgin, bride, mother.

e.The Epiklesis in the rite of profession of religious mentions:

Send the fire of your Holy Spirit into the heart of this, your daughter, to keep alive within her the holy desire He has given herâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

The Epiklesis in the rite of consecration of virgins mentions the Gift of the Holy Spirit

Through the gift of your Spirit, Lord,

give them modesty with right judgment,

kindness with true wisdom,

gentleness with strength of character,

freedom with the grace of chastity.

Give them the warmth of love,

to love you above all others.

Make their lives deserve our praise,

without seeking to be praised.

May they give you glory by holiness of action and purity of heart.

May they love you and fear you;

may they love you and serve you.

I liked the explanation given here regarding the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_gifts_of_the_Holy_Spirit#The_seven_gifts_of_the_Holy_Spirit

St. Thomas Aquinas says that four of these gifts (wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and counsel) direct the intellect, while the other three gifts (fortitude, piety, and fear of the Lord) direct the will toward God.

In some respects, the gifts are similar to the virtues, but a key distinction is that the virtues operate under the impetus of human reason (prompted by grace), whereas the gifts operate under the impetus of the Holy Spirit; the former can be used when one wishes, but the latter operate only when the Holy Spirit wishes. In the case of Fortitude, the gift has, in Latin and English, the same name as a virtue, which it is related to but from which it must be distinguished.

In Summa Theologica II.II, Thomas Aquinas asserts the following correspondences between the seven Capital Virtues and the seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit:[11]

The gift of wisdom corresponds to the virtue of charity.

The gifts of understanding and knowledge correspond to the virtue of faith.

The gift of counsel (right judgment) corresponds to the virtue of prudence.

The gift of fortitude corresponds to the virtue of courage.

The gift of fear of the Lord corresponds to the virtue of hope.

The gift of Reverence corresponds to the virtue of justice.

To the virtue of temperance, no Gift is directly assigned; but the gift of fear can be taken as such, since fear drives somebody to restrict himself from forbidden pleasures.

--------------------------------

Aren't these gifts very similar/ same as mentioned in the prayer of consecration of virgins ? I did not find this in rite of religious profession. If there are versions I've not seen, please feel free to enlighten me.

f] If the consecration in the rite for CVs and Profession of religious/ monastics/ hermits is same then monastics would not need to receive Consecration of virgins after Solemn Profession.

Regarding the SEAL : what the CCC says about rite of Confirmation is SO similar to rite of Consecration of virgins . It may be considered authoritative till I gather other sources from ancient Church history to present here.

CCC : http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a2.htm

II. THE SIGNS AND THE RITE OF CONFIRMATION

1293 In treating the rite of Confirmation, it is fitting to consider the sign of anointing and what it signifies and imprints: a spiritual seal.

Anointing, in Biblical and other ancient symbolism, is rich in meaning: oil is a sign of abundance and joy;¹⁰³ it cleanses (anointing before and after a bath) and limbers (the anointing of athletes and wrestlers); oil is a sign of healing, since it is soothing to bruises and wounds;¹⁰⁴ and it makes radiant with beauty, health, and strength.

1294 Anointing with oil has all these meanings in the sacramental life. The pre-baptismal anointing with the oil of catechumens signifies cleansing and strengthening; the anointing of the sick expresses healing and comfort. The post-baptismal anointing with sacred chrism in Confirmation and ordination is the sign of consecration. By Confirmation Christians, that is, those who are anointed, share more completely in the mission of Jesus Christ and the fullness of the Holy Spirit with which he is filled, so that their lives may give off "the aroma of Christ."¹⁰⁵

1295 By this anointing the confirmand receives the "mark," the seal of the Holy Spirit. A seal is a symbol of a person, a sign of personal authority, or ownership of an object.¹⁰⁶ Hence soldiers were marked with their leader's seal and slaves with their master's. A seal authenticates a juridical act or document and occasionally makes it secret.¹⁰⁷

1296 Christ himself declared that he was marked with his Father's seal.¹⁰⁸ Christians are also marked with a seal: "It is God who establishes us with you in Christ and has commissioned us; he has put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."¹⁰⁹This seal of the Holy Spirit marks our total belonging to Christ, our enrollment in his service for ever, as well as the promise of divine protection in the great eschatological trial.¹¹⁰

The celebration of Confirmation

1297 The consecration of the sacred chrism is an important action that precedes the celebration of Confirmation, but is in a certain way a part of it. It is the bishop who, in the course of the Chrism Mass of Holy Thursday, consecrates the sacred chrism for his whole diocese. In some Eastern Churches this consecration is even reserved to the patriarch:

The liturgy of Antioch expresses the epiclesis for the consecration of the sacred chrism (myron) in this way: "[Father . . . send your Holy Spirit] on us and on this oil which is before us and consecrate it, so that it may be for all who are anointed and marked with it holy myron, priestly myron, royal myron, anointing with gladness, clothing with light, a cloak of salvation, a spiritual gift, the sanctification of souls and bodies, imperishable happiness, the indelible seal, a buckler of faith, and a fearsome helmet against all the works of the adversary."

1298 When Confirmation is celebrated separately from Baptism, as is the case in the Roman Rite, the Liturgy of Confirmation begins with the renewal of baptismal promises and the profession of faith by the confirmands. This clearly shows that Confirmation follows Baptism.¹¹¹ When adults are baptized, they immediately receive Confirmation and participate in the Eucharist.¹¹²

1299 In the Roman Rite the bishop extends his hands over the whole group of the confirmands. Since the time of the apostles this gesture has signified the gift of the Spirit. The bishop invokes the outpouring of the Spirit in these words:

All-powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
by water and the Holy Spirit
you freed your sons and daughters from sin
and gave them new life.
Send your Holy Spirit upon them
to be their helper and guide.
Give them the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of right judgment and courage,
the spirit of knowledge and reverence.
Fill them with the spirit of wonder and awe in your presence.
We ask this through Christ our Lord.¹¹³

1300 The essential rite of the sacrament follows. In the Latin rite, "the sacrament of Confirmation is conferred through the anointing with chrism on the forehead, which is done by the laying on of the hand, and through the words: 'Accipe signaculum doni Spiritus Sancti' [Be sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit.]."¹¹⁴ In the Eastern Churches of Byzantine rite, after a prayer of epiclesis, the more significant parts of the body are anointed with myron: forehead, eyes, nose, ears, lips, chest, back, hands, and feet. Each anointing is accompanied by the formula SfragiV dwreaV PneumatoV Â¢Agiou (Signaculum doni Spiritus Sancti): "the seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit."¹¹⁵

1301 The sign of peace that concludes the rite of the sacrament signifies and demonstrates ecclesial communion with the bishop and with all the faithful.¹¹⁶

III. THE EFFECTS OF CONFIRMATION

1302 It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost.

1303 From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace:
- it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, "Abba! Father!";¹¹⁷
- it unites us more firmly to Christ;
- it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
- it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;¹¹⁸
- it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:¹¹⁹

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.¹²⁰

^{[according to canon 604, the virgin is Consecrated to God, mystically espoused to Christ and dedicated to the service of the church. The effect as in confirmation is seen]}

1304 Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the "character," which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness.¹²¹

1305 This "character" perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."¹²²

These effects are also seen in the consecration of virgins.

I'm unable to attach a Word file to the post hence I'll try to paste the content in the following post. Hope it allows so many links to be pasted !

December 31, 2012

1. 1988 Homily from Mass of the Consecration of a Virgin by Card.Ratzinger

2. DE BENEDICTIONE ET CONSECRATIONE VIRGINUM : This is the Latin text of the Pre-Vatican II Rite of consecration of virgins, used in monasteries. It is interesting . One may translate it using Google translator . http://translate.google.com/

3. Older Post-Vat II translation of the Rite in the Roman Pontifical

4. Yr 2011 translation of the Rite in the Roman Pontifical

5. http://ocvar.8m.net/Directorio_Rafaela.doc : This link takes you to an Excellent formation doc from OCV Argentina. My personal opinion is that it is balanced, realistic , deep, advanced , clear [ more in line with my own approach to the vocation !] . Very different from the formation material provided by english speaking USACV. One can translate the doc. on google translate by entering the link.

6.http://books.google.co.in/books?id=FHZBFvLa5SkC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=you+make+the+human+family+your+bride+radiant+with+your+own+likeness,&source=bl&ots=MWZ17Mh19v&sig=UzSBJXuZH366Qm0QMZ7bDyieYJ4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mYDhUNWnGYjPrQfCnICQCg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=you%20make%20the%20human%20family%20your%20bride%20radiant%20with%20your%20own%20likeness%2C&f=false

Point 72 gives one version of solemn blessing or consecration of the professed

Point 73 mentions the ring as signifying â€˜Betrothalâ€™

Point 159 gives another solemn prayer of blessing or consecration of the professed.

7.http://books.google.co.in/books?id=rkC6RW6G8dQC&pg=PA326&lpg=PA326&dq=solemn+prayer+of+blessing+or+consecration+of+the+professed&source=bl&ots=NmY6r1qvyj&sig=-z0A1Pa_Udn-Bm5nGlbfBP2IMpo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IojhUOT5JcH5rAeS54H4DA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=solemn%20prayer%20of%20blessing%20or%20consecration%20of%20the%20professed&f=false

Pg 331: mentions the liturgy of consecration of virgins as a theological locus for the theology of marriage.

Pg 337 : pt 3 : authentic meaning of the rite as the celebration of marriage between Christ and the consecrated virgin.

Ref pg 339 : pt 4 : Theological content

8. http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P1X.HTM

Can. 604 Â§1 The order of virgins is also to be added to these forms of consecrated life. Through their pledge to follow Christ more closely, virgins are consecrated to God, mystically espoused to Christ and dedicated to the service of the Church, when the diocesan Bishop consecrates them according to the approved liturgical rite.

Â§2 Virgins can be associated together to fulfil their pledge more faithfully, and to assist each other to serve the Church in a way that befits their state.

[ The term mystical espousal and not betrothal is used in the code of canon law . See also Latin text below ]

http://www.intratext.com/IXT/LAT0010/_P1X.HTM

Can. 604 - Â§ 1. Hisce vitae consecratae formis accedit ordo virginum quae, sanctum

propositum emittentes Christum pressius sequendi, ab Episcopo dioecesano iuxte probatum

ritum liturgicum Deo consecrantur, Christo Dei Filio mystice desponsantur et Ecclesiae

servitio dedicantur.

Â§ 2. Ad suum propositum fidelius servandum et ad servitium Ecclesiae, proprio statui

consonum, mutuo adiutorio perficiendum, virgines consociari possunt.

9. Yr 306 AD : the Council of Elvira in Spain imposed sanctions on virgins who had been unfaithful to their consecration to God .

Yr 314 AD :Council of Ancyra declared that consecrated virgins who marry were guilty of bigamy.

Yr 364 AD : The civil law, under Valens, declared that anyone who married a consecrated virgin was subject to the death penalty.

All this is because the Consecration of virgins was considered a sacrament with permanent effect in the Early Church. The Church has moved towards more and more leniency over the centuries.

December 31, 2012

While I agree with a lot of what you have said, I would have to disagree here. The consecration to a life of virginity is lifelong, whether received by a nun or by a woman in the world. Hence one of the practical problems discussed at the 2008 international conference in Rome happened to be the problem of Benedictines in a South American country who receive the Consecration and then at some point leave. The problem was that while the solemn vows were dispensed, they were still consecrated virgins. This is one reason why traditionally certain Orders only consecrate the virgins 10-25 years after solemn profession - to ensure perpetual virginity.

I think one thoughtful question that must be asked is why is it that as I have indicated in an earlier thread, the consecration to a life of virginity (as a nun or in the world) is forever and the consecration of a religious is not?

I would argue they are either both life long or neither are. The Church has not indicated a qualitative difference in these two consecrations and the discussion about gradations in consecration are part of their rightful resistance to do so. Sister Mary Catharine has indicated that the consecration of the solemnly (or perpetually) professed Sister/nun is life long, but the obligations may not be. I have indicated that the consecration initiates into a stable state of life with canonical (and some civil) rights and obligations and that one may leave this stable state.

In fact, with regard to CV's I know of cases where the Bishop involved thought the consecration was temporary (and used the Rite as a form of temporary commitment); for various connected reasons (not the woman's fault!) the woman so consecrated moved on and was considered free to do so. While that Bishop was wrong in using the Rite as he did the woman CANNOT live as a CV in the world; her consecration may still exist, but the obligations of her commitment do not continue, and in fact cannot. She has left the consecrated state of life she was initiated into in more ways than simply legally. I would argue that any CV who discerns she was mistaken in discerning a lifelong vocation and who thereafter decides to marry is free to do so. The Church does NOT actually treat consecration as a CV living in the world as a diriment impediment to marriage (I am aware of opinions which affirm that by custom it is, but until these assertions are ratified in canon law either by moto proprio or another revision of the code itself it remains that the Church does not treat it in this way; Canon 1076 may apply here).

Regarding perpetually or solemnly professed religious/hermits who also receive a solemn consecration and then seek dispensation from their vows, they too leave the consecrated state of life they were initiated into. That is, they have been dispensed from the legal rights and obligations attending and integrally linked to their consecrations but do they cease to be consecrated persons, persons set apart by God? Again, if CV's do not, then neither do these. Consecration is an act of God and besdies not making a qualitative distinction between the two consecrations I don't think the Church ever simply sets this aside or argues that it is. At the same time Vatican II's careful distinction between dedication and consecration allows us to argue clearly that the first may change while the second does not. We do well to distinguish between charism, mission, consecrated state, and consecration since these categories may provide the answer to the problems which are not yet resolved by the Church and do so in ways simply speaking about consecration per se does not.

best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

December 31, 2012

The Evangelical Counsels are not drawn from The Beatitudes, rather from the Person of Jesus Himself and how He lived His life as the Poor, Chaste and Obedient One and in perfect Charity. (see quotation box 1.below - sorry quotation things wont work)..................

What I wrote was

"Every baptised person is called to follow Christ in the spirit of the Beatitudes from which the evangelical counsels of religious life are derived . True , HOW each one lives the Beatitudes will vary according to ones vocation ! "

If we want to debate over words and grammar of emphases, we can do so forever because in the bible and also in history of church documents and resources , debaters will often find enough material to support each ones own position and contradict the other !

I am taking these discussions in a sporting spirit , with no intention to offend or be offended. I always consider myself a student and ever willing to listen. But I'm infamous for asking too many questions too.

Sorry I had written that response to your post rather casually , as a friend who liked the message in what you wrote , and not with theological intent . I don't know whether Phatmass discussions are supposed to be serious theological discussions like an examination at a university. I'll be very careful about words and grammar at least in future.

My actual position is " follow Christ in the spirit of the beatitudes" . The term " follow Christ" at least in vocation of CV implicitly contains the spirit of the evangelical counsels [ It is in the proposito of the virgin in the ceremony] . The term 'follow Christ' at least to me immediately brings to mind the Paschal mystery and the call to carry my own cross and follow Him . That is a given in any discussion on discipleship. Sacraments of Christian Initiation already imply this following.

To dissect this 'following' into 3 evangelical counsels and say "Religious Life is the state of perfection as The Church states, and we are all called to perfection/holiness, hence the way of perfection outside of religious life will be a way of chastity, poverty and obedience IN ACCORD with one's particular vocation and call from God." is a bit complicating . i personally like to keep the original word that Jesus Christ used for discipleship as following Him.

Religious life with its terminology and structures has lost attraction in most parts of the world.

The New Evangelisation needs a New language for presenting the Gospel.

December 31, 2012

In continuation with resources to support the idea of 'seal' of consecration :

As I mentioned and provided references earlier, the liturgy of consecration of virgins is a theological locus for the theology of marriage.While there is very little Post Vatican Council II theology on CV except in Canon 604 , the Introduction and homily of the Rite , the theology of marriage which is itself based on theology of consecration of virgins can help understand CV better.

II. THE CELEBRATION OF MARRIAGE

1621 In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ.¹²⁰ In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up.¹²¹ It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but "one body" in Christ.¹²²

1623 According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ's grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern Churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent given by the spouses,¹²⁴ but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.¹²⁵

1624 The various liturgies abound in prayers of blessing and epiclesis asking God's grace and blessing on the new couple, especially the bride. In the epiclesis of this sacrament the spouses receive the Holy Spirit as the communion of love of Christ and the Church.¹²⁶The Holy Spirit is the seal of their covenant, the ever available source of their love and the strength to renew their fidelity.

The marriage bond

1639 The consent by which the spouses mutually give and receive one another is sealed by God himself.¹⁴³ From their covenant arises "an institution, confirmed by the divine law, . . . even in the eyes of society."¹⁴⁴ The covenant between the spouses is integrated into God's covenant with man: "Authentic married love is caught up into divine love."¹⁴⁵

1640 Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by God's fidelity. The Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom.¹⁴⁶

The fidelity of conjugal love

1646 By its very nature conjugal love requires the inviolable fidelity of the spouses. This is the consequence of the gift of themselves which they make to each other. Love seeks to be definitive; it cannot be an arrangement "until further notice." The "intimate union of marriage, as a mutual giving of two persons, and the good of the children, demand total fidelity from the spouses and require an unbreakable union between them."¹⁵⁷

1647 The deepest reason is found in the fidelity of God to his covenant, in that of Christ to his Church. Through the sacrament of Matrimony the spouses are enabled to represent this fidelity and witness to it. Through the sacrament, the indissolubility of marriage receives a new and deeper meaning.

1659 St. Paul said: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church. . . . This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the Church" (Eph 5:25, 32).

1661 The sacrament of Matrimony signifies the union of Christ and the Church. It gives spouses the grace to love each other with the love with which Christ has loved his Church; the grace of the sacrament thus perfects the human love of the spouses, strengthens their indissoluble unity, and sanctifies them on the way to eternal life (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1799).

AT THE WELLSPRINGS OF PRAYER

2652 The Holy Spirit is the living water "welling up to eternal life"³ in the heart that prays. It is he who teaches us to accept it at its source: Christ. Indeed in the Christian life there are several wellsprings where Christ awaits us to enable us to drink of the Holy Spirit.

January 1, 2013

What I wrote was

"Every baptised person is called to follow Christ in the spirit of the Beatitudes from which the evangelical counsels of religious life are derived . True , HOW each one lives the Beatitudes will vary according to ones vocation ! "

If we want to debate over words and grammar of emphases, we can do so forever because in the bible and also in history of church documents and resources , debaters will often find enough material to support each ones own position and contradict the other !

I am taking these discussions in a sporting spirit , with no intention to offend or be offended. I always consider myself a student and ever willing to listen. But I'm infamous for asking too many questions too.

Sorry I had written that response to your post rather casually , as a friend who liked the message in what you wrote , and not with theological intent . I don't know whether Phatmass discussions are supposed to be serious theological discussions like an examination at a university. I'll be very careful about words and grammar at least in future.

My actual position is " follow Christ in the spirit of the beatitudes" . The term " follow Christ" at least in vocation of CV implicitly contains the spirit of the evangelical counsels [ It is in the proposito of the virgin in the ceremony] . The term 'follow Christ' at least to me immediately brings to mind the Paschal mystery and the call to carry my own cross and follow Him . That is a given in any discussion on discipleship. Sacraments of Christian Initiation already imply this following.

To dissect this 'following' into 3 evangelical counsels and say "Religious Life is the state of perfection as The Church states, and we are all called to perfection/holiness, hence the way of perfection outside of religious life will be a way of chastity, poverty and obedience IN ACCORD with one's particular vocation and call from God." is a bit complicating . i personally like to keep the original word that Jesus Christ used for discipleship as following Him.

Religious life with its terminology and structures has lost attraction in most parts of the world.

The New Evangelisation needs a New language for presenting the Gospel.

Hi GB -

I did do a reply to your post above and then suddenly it disappeared, as my posts into Phatmass can do; hence, the post was not meant to be. Phatmass is doing dreadful things to me in the editing and formatting department and not my first post to vanish into cyberspace. I need to write into Word and then cut and paste into Phatmass.

I thank you for your comments and taking the time to make them, even if I could not agree in places. What a boring world it would be if we were all precisely the same and never thought differently. We would need to be infallible all of us and in all things. To my mind as long as there is disagreement, the truth is still struggling for the light somewhere or other.

I apologize, but it took me quite some time to write the post and just at this point, I cannot motivate myself to try to write a response again - and perhaps in the best interests for all in this thread and any just reading. Most of this thread is all going way over my head, way over.

Regards...............Barb :)

January 1, 2013

All this is because the Consecration of virgins was considered a sacrament with permanent effect in the Early Church. The Church has moved towards more and more leniency over the centuries.

The Church has also, at times considered religious profession/consecration a Sacrament for precisely the same reasons. It does not do so now. This is not a matter of leniency but of theological clarity. Both the consecration of virgins and the consecration of religious are considered sacramentals today, and rightly so. Further, the Church does not speak of the CV as being in the state of matrimony, but in the consecrated state. The sign value is eschatological, which does not lessen its value of course, but it does locate and distinguish it more precisely from the Sacrament of Matrimony.

I understand that the consecration of virgins living in the world is badly understood by many, and not esteemed by as many, but we do not esteem it by making it something other than what it actually is. It is not a form of quasi-religious life; it is not a sacrament; it does not initiate one into the state of matrimony per se. It's consecration is of the same character as any other consecration, no more, no less. Again, the Church does NOT distinguish qualitatively between the consecration of one and the consecration of the other although the graces and charisms associated with the consecrations may differ some from one another.

By the way, in the Rite of Perpetual Profession of Women BOTH the terms espousal and betrothal are used in the solemn prayer of consecration and the presentation of insigniae (as well as the antiphon following). They are clearly meant as synonyms so one cannot distinguish the two consecrations in this way either and suggest that one is a marriage while the other is not. The prayers and antiphon read as follows:

[[. . .Father in your loving wisdom you have singled out many of your daughters to be disciples espoused to Christ and to receive the honor of his love. . . . Lord may the glory of baptism and holiness of life shine in their hearts. Strengthened by the vows of their consecration may they always on with you in loving fidelity to Christ their only Bridegroom. . . .When they come at last to the throne of Christ the King, may they not fear him as their judge, but hear the voice of their Bridegroom lovingly inviting them to the wedding feast of heaven. . .]] and [[ Receive this ring, for you are betrothed the the eternal King, keep faith with your Bridegroom so that you may come to the wedding feast of eternal joy.]] The antiphon reads: [[I am betrothed to the Son of the eternal Father to him who was born of the virgin Mother to be the savior of the world.]] Meanwhile, the solemn blessing at the end of Mass, reminds and asks, [[May he make those bonds with which he has bound you to Christ on earth, endure for ever in heaven.]]

I am concerned that canon 604 (consecrated virgins living in the world) is still in search of its own meaning and significance in our church and world. I believe (and I know some disagree with me here) that its secularity is a huge piece of its true nature and distinguishiing importance; we must understand this as a form of sacred or sacramental secularity pointing to the capacity of all the world to become sacramental. But I agree wholeheartedly with Sister Mary Catharine, OP, that we cannot "puff up" the vocation in theological terms the Church herself does not use, especially in ways which seem to buy into the all-too-worldly notions of value which diminish other consecrations or vocations in the process.

best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

January 2, 2013

GB (Godâ€™s Beloved) wrote : â€œWhat I wrote was "Every baptised person is called to follow Christ in the spirit of the Beatitudes from which the evangelical counsels of religious life are derived . True , HOW each one lives the Beatitudes will vary according to ones vocation ! "

I did know that is what you wrote and it is what I could not agree with.

GB wrote : If we want to debate over words and grammar of emphases, we can do so forever because in the bible and also in history of church documents and resources , debaters will often find enough material to support each ones own position and contradict the other !

What I was quoting from was The Catholic Catechism and surely we can and must believe what it states. I was quoting from the CCC to support what I was stating. Also to a much lesser degree I quoted from Vita Consecrata.

GB wrote :I am taking these discussions in a sporting spirit , with no intention to offend or be offended. I always consider myself a student and ever willing to listen. But I'm infamous for asking too many questions too.

Sorry I had written that response to your post rather casually , as a friend who liked the message in what you wrote , and not with theological intent . I don't know whether Phatmass discussions are supposed to be serious theological discussions like an examination at a university. I'll be very careful about words and grammar at least in future.

I have no desire whatsoever to be offensive either and if I was, then I do sincerely apologize. Phatmass discussions insofar as I am aware can be either oneâ€™s own concepts unsupported by any source, or oneâ€™s own concepts perhaps supported by hopefully some sound and reliable source or sources. No hard and fast rules in any direction on this particular subject insofar as I am aware.

Personally, if I am commenting on some sort of Catholic subject, then I do try to be theologically accurate. Do we have to do so on Phatmass? I have no idea. Thus, I have no right whatsoever to impose it on others if Phatmass has no ruling on the matter, nor have I sought to impose unless someone is quoting something as Church Teaching.

If you have liked something I wrote, I donâ€™t think that this imposes an obligation on me to agree necessarily with something that you have written and especially if I donâ€™t agree with it. Also, I think I may not have seen where you posted you liked what I had to say until after I had written the post where I could not agree with a statement you made. I canâ€™t quite recall. I try very hard to speak to the subject but being more a creative writer, I offend against my own rules for myself I am sure - and not only in posting into Phatmass â€“ for sure! And so I apologize if I have lapsed into creative writing somewhere instead of speaking to the subject. I most certainly hope that I would not be uncharitable and unkind nor offensive and do not mean to be so â€“ and again, if you have found any of my posts offensive, then I do sincerely apologize.

Sometimes I might write in a quite casual vein perhaps more inclined towards creative type writing. At other times I strive to be theologically correct with supporting sound sources with links â€“ and this is especially so if I think it necessary without any rules for myself when it is necessary or if when is not.

GB wrote : My actual position is " follow Christ in the spirit of the beatitudes" . The term " follow Christ" at least in vocation of CV implicitly contains the spirit of the evangelical counsels [ It is in the proposito of the virgin in the ceremony] . The term 'follow Christ' at least to me immediately brings to mind the Paschal mystery and the call to carry my own cross and follow Him . That is a given in any discussion on discipleship. Sacraments of Christian Initiation already imply this following.

In my personal life, I am in line with the CCC (and what I quoted from the CCC) at least in sincere motivation and intention. While my being remains weak and faulted, fallible â€“ and consistently. Certainly in having made private vows to the evangelical counsels and having defined what I am about, I have a moral obligation to these vows and my â€˜ruleâ€™ in the spirit of the Beatitudes as Charity may dictate. My â€˜ruleâ€™ is nothing unique, rather drawn from The Gospels to which I have an obligation anyway. My â€˜ruleâ€™ lays emphasis on some aspects of The Gospel.

AT THIS POINT, THE FORMATTING INTO COLOUR WOULD NO LONGER WORK FOR ME

GB wrote : To dissect this 'following' into 3 evangelical counsels and say "Religious Life is the state of perfection as The Church states, and we are all called to perfection/holiness, hence the way of perfection outside of religious life will be a way of chastity, poverty and obedience IN ACCORD with one's particular vocation and call from God." is a bit complicating . i personally like to keep the original word that Jesus Christ used for discipleship as following Him.

I was merely putting into my own words what is stated in the CCC (Catholic Catechism) from which I did quote with links. I am sorry that it was complicated to you. I donâ€™t find it so. But then we are all unique creations and oh what a boring world if we were all precisely the same.

GB wrote : Religious life with its terminology and structures has lost attraction in most parts of the world.

The New Evangelisation needs a New language for presenting the Gospel.

This is your personal concept (although I am not sure at all of your precise meaning re the New Evangelisation). I do not dispute for one moment your right to have a personal concept or concepts, nor itsâ€™ content if not contrary to what The Church teaches which is always my guide and anchor, and of course your statements above are not contrary to what The Church teaches. I donâ€™t know really (I find it hard to keep up with all The Church publishes) perhaps your statement above is in line with what The Church is stating on both religious life and the new evangelisation. In fact I would defend â€“ and probably adamantly - your absolute right to have your own personal concepts in some matters.

Attributed to St Augustine: â€œin non-essentials liberty; in essentials unity and in all things Love (Charity)â€ â€“ brackets mine.

I certainly do advocate that we strive to get The Gospel into the vernacular â€“ to present it as very relevant to life in our times and understandable to the people of our times who may not be as familiar as many of us are with The Gospel nor even with some of the terminology with which we are all mostly familiar. This was a challenge to me in my previous residence and suburb where I can safely say almost none, if not all, were educated beyond 7^th Grade if that - and found The Old and New Testaments confusing â€“ hence I needed at times to explain their confusions and in language that they could grasp and I did strive to do so with relevance to their lives and to their various journeys.

Just in closing, the evangelical counsels are not confined to religious life. They are proposed to every baptised person as a disciple of Jesus not as a vowed and stable state in life necessarily, but in accord with oneâ€™s particular state in life and vocation as stated in the Catholic Catechism and previously quoted. As stated in the Catholic Catechism and quoted previously:

â€œThe aim of the counsels is to remove whatever might hinder the development of charity, even if it is not contrary to itâ€ We are all called to the perfection of Charity.

The Church has discerned that religious life and some secular institutes (there may be more) that the evangelical counsels are vowed or promised and as a stable state in life in the consecrated stateâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.and impossible, I suspect, to misinterpret Lumen Gentium as below :

Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on The Church)

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

.............â€œthe counsels, customarily called "evangelical." This practice of the counsels, under the impulsion of the Holy Spirit, undertaken by many Christians, either privately or in a Church-approved condition or state of life, gives and must give in the world an outstanding witness and example of this same holiness.â€

January 2, 2013

The Church has also, at times considered religious profession/consecration a Sacrament for precisely the same reasons. It does not do so now. This is not a matter of leniency but of theological clarity. Both the consecration of virgins and the consecration of religious are considered sacramentals today, and rightly so. Further, the Church does not speak of the CV as being in the state of matrimony, but in the consecrated state. The sign value is eschatological, which does not lessen its value of course, but it does locate and distinguish it more precisely from the Sacrament of Matrimony.

I understand that the consecration of virgins living in the world is badly understood by many, and not esteemed by as many, but we do not esteem it by making it something other than what it actually is. It is not a form of quasi-religious life; it is not a sacrament; it does not initiate one into the state of matrimony per se. It's consecration is of the same character as any other consecration, no more, no less. Again, the Church does NOT distinguish qualitatively between the consecration of one and the consecration of the other although the graces and charisms associated with the consecrations may differ some from one another.

By the way, in the Rite of Perpetual Profession of Women BOTH the terms espousal and betrothal are used in the solemn prayer of consecration and the presentation of insigniae (as well as the antiphon following). They are clearly meant as synonyms so one cannot distinguish the two consecrations in this way either and suggest that one is a marriage while the other is not. The prayers and antiphon read as follows:

[[. . .Father in your loving wisdom you have singled out many of your daughters to be disciples espoused to Christ and to receive the honor of his love. . . . Lord may the glory of baptism and holiness of life shine in their hearts. Strengthened by the vows of their consecration may they always on with you in loving fidelity to Christ their only Bridegroom. . . .When they come at last to the throne of Christ the King, may they not fear him as their judge, but hear the voice of their Bridegroom lovingly inviting them to the wedding feast of heaven. . .]] and [[ Receive this ring, for you are betrothed the the eternal King, keep faith with your Bridegroom so that you may come to the wedding feast of eternal joy.]] The antiphon reads: [[I am betrothed to the Son of the eternal Father to him who was born of the virgin Mother to be the savior of the world.]] Meanwhile, the solemn blessing at the end of Mass, reminds and asks, [[May he make those bonds with which he has bound you to Christ on earth, endure for ever in heaven.]]

I am concerned that canon 604 (consecrated virgins living in the world) is still in search of its own meaning and significance in our church and world. I believe (and I know some disagree with me here) that its secularity is a huge piece of its true nature and distinguishiing importance; we must understand this as a form of sacred or sacramental secularity pointing to the capacity of all the world to become sacramental. But I agree wholeheartedly with Sister Mary Catharine, OP, that we cannot "puff up" the vocation in theological terms the Church herself does not use, especially in ways which seem to buy into the all-too-worldly notions of value which diminish other consecrations or vocations in the process.

best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

Both you and Sister Mary Catherine have written eloquently on the topic of consecration. I had some reservations myself about the way the vocation of CV has been presented in this thread, as if it were somehow more special than any other vocation, and should be considered a sacrament, and that it puts a 'seal' on the soul. I didn't know how to express my concerns however, so am most relieved that both you and Sr M C have been able to put into words what I could not. I would hate to imagine a heaven where the 'hierarchy' of earthly thinking applies and where the 'competition' that exists on earth would somehow also exist. If I have to compete in heaven for God's love, then it wouldn't be heaven for me.

The God I know and adore may have a hierarchy set up in heaven according to His Will (we have heard of the hierarchy of the angels) but even with the angels it appears to be more a hierarchy of function than one of prestige! The seraphim have one function, the cherubim another, the archangels yet another etc. but all is based on their place in God's plan, not on their 'specialness'. The Church hierarchy is set up as a reflection of the heavenly one, designed for function (Jesus said that those who would be leaders must first be servants).

When I think about the calling God has given me to enter Carmel, I never for a moment imagine that I am somehow special or that my vocation is in any way qualitatively better than anyone else's vocation. It is simply the one that God gave to me to fulfil His plan, not mine. And it has not been made possible until now, after I have already fulfilled a vocation as an adoptive mother.

Although I see the life of a consecrated virgin as a very valuable one, it is not a sacrament, nor does it impose a seal on the soul as Holy Orders do or the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. When I asked a priest once why religious life was not a sacrament, he told me that Sacraments are those things that are essential for the survival of the Church. Holy Orders and Marriage are Sacraments - without priests or families the Church would not survive. Religious life, on the other hand, along with CVs and CHs and any other form of lifestyle - are important and valuable to the Church - but not essential.

The way I view my vocation to religious life is that it is a great gift to be allowed to serve God in that way because it appeals to me and I can see value in it. But I would never try to make it seem as if I were somehow special because of it. I actually see it the opposite way - as an expression of God's mercy towards someone who needs a lot of help from others in learning how to love Him and others. To see any vocation as qualitively better than another seems remarkably like a dangerous path to the sin of spiritual pride.

Anyone can become a spouse of Christ in their soul, through His grace, even if they can't necessarily consecrate themselves formally to Him through the Church for any reason. God knows our hearts and I am sure that those who offer Him their 'widows mite' will be as cherished by Him in heaven as those who give to Him from their abundance. It is only in our human view of things that we want to separate everything into 'first class', 'business class' and 'economy'. :)

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