Watching Stolen Cable

[dairygirl4u2c]

please explain choices

[xTrishaxLynnx]

Mostly I just don't care about much of anything that's on cable, but even if I did I couldn't in good conscience watch it knowing it was stolen.

 

Now... if the person in the next apartment paid for cable and wanted to allow me to run a cable to mine, I might feel differently; I'm not really sure. I'd have to think about it more, but to me that wouldn't really be different than having a TV with cable in each room in the same house. It's the stealing from some unsuspecting neighbor who is paying that I have the real issue with.

tl;dr - No.

[fides' Jack]

Interesting - I never thought about it from that angle.  However, I think you're incorrect in ownership of the cable in question.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the cable company actually owns the physical cable even inside the house, and that cable customers are paying for the use of it, and for the content.  If you split that cable to point it to another room/house/etc..., you're not stealing from your neighbor, but from the cable company, which legally owns the rights to the cable and the content it's carrying.

 

No, you can't watch stolen cable in any circumstance without committing sin.

[Tantum Ergo]

I'm probably totally clueless here (haven't had cable in the house since I was 5 years old), but how exactly would one "steal" cable? I've heard that sometimes you can connect a cord from the cable outlet in your apartment or home to your TV and automatically get cable - I guess sometimes the cable company forgets to "turn off" the cable by mistake. 

 

Anyways, this seems very similar to "stealing" your neighbor's wifi, which in my opinion is a sin. 

[Basilisa Marie]

"Stealing" wifi isn't a sin if their wifi isn't password protected.   :saint2:

 

Stealing cable is a sin, for reasons fides' outlined.

 

Now, what about live streaming television online?  Say you hook your tv (a service you've paid for) up to your laptop and run the signal to an online streaming service, so other people can watch "live" with you.  This doesn't involve recording and posting, or downloading a copy (although the US supreme court did rule that you can record tv for private use).  If YOU aren't making any money off of it...how is live streaming your tv any different than inviting friends over to your house? :)

[homeschoolmom]

I'd get a new roommate. What else is she stealing?

[Groo the Wanderer]

My answer is 42.

 

 

or green.

[Tantum Ergo]

"Stealing" wifi isn't a sin if their wifi isn't password protected.   :saint2:

 

Stealing cable is a sin, for reasons fides' outlined.

 

Now, what about live streaming television online?  Say you hook your tv (a service you've paid for) up to your laptop and run the signal to an online streaming service, so other people can watch "live" with you.  This doesn't involve recording and posting, or downloading a copy (although the US supreme court did rule that you can record tv for private use).  If YOU aren't making any money off of it...how is live streaming your tv any different than inviting friends over to your house? :)

 

Why do you think "stealing" wifi isn't a sin? How is stealing wifi any different than stealing cable, or some other service?

 

I don't really understand what you mean about live streaming television. If the stream is free and available to everyone with an internet connection, then it's meant to be watched for free by everyone with an internet connection. There's nothing wrong with watching it on your computer or watching it on your TV by hooking your laptop up to the TV (and some smart TVs even have internet built in, so you can even skip the connecting your laptop step). It's not a paid service, it's meant to be watched for free, there's no sin there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

Edited January 12, 2013 by Tantum Ergo

[Tantum Ergo]

Oh wait, you're saying if you can somehow run your cable signal online for your friends to watch? Sorry, but that's illegal. It's illegal for you to freely distribute copyrighted content that you don't have rights to, and it's illegal for your friends to download such content online (streaming IS downloading). 

 

Sorry for the double post, but it wouldn't let me edit my previous post for some reason. 

[Nihil Obstat]

Illegal does not necessarily imply immoral.

[Basilisa Marie]

Using someone's unprotected wifi is not a sin.  Almost all internet routers require you to establish a password during the installation wizard, or come with one already pre-programmed.  You have to actually choose to make it not password protected.  It's like owning a bridge.  I can charge a toll for the bridge (the password), and anyone who pays the toll can cross it.  But if I don't charge a toll for the bridge, it's not wrong for people to cross it without paying the toll, just because I own the bridge. It's only immoral if I charge a toll and people run across the bridge without paying it.  

 

Streaming is not downloading.  Downloading makes a copy of the file and sticks it on your own hard drive.  Streaming runs the file from a 3rd party source.  It's the difference between making a copy of a movie and giving it out to your friends, and inviting them all over to watch the movie at your house.  This is why the government can crack down on people who download illegally, but have to catch streamers literally in the act of streaming.  And the FBI has better things to do. 

 

Other than legality (as Nihil pointed out, legality =/= morality, and for this case I'm ignoring any "we have a moral obligation to follow the law" arguments, and instead focusing on the act itself), is there any discernible difference between live streaming your television online and inviting friends over for a movie night? 

For argument's sake, let's say that you don't make any money off the stream, you keep all of the program's commercials intact, and you host the livestream on your own website.  How is that any different than inviting friends over to watch tv? 

[KnightofChrist]

Using unprotected wifi without permission from the owner can be sinful. Just because something may be unlocked doesn't always mean it's ok to enter into it. Someone could leave their front door unlocked but that doesn't mean someone else can come in without being granted permission.

[Nihil Obstat]

Using unprotected wifi without permission from the owner can be sinful. Just because something may be unlocked doesn't always mean it's ok to enter into it. Someone could leave their front door unlocked but that doesn't mean someone else can come in without being granted permission.

 

Bit of trivia: Here in Calgary at least, it is only breaking and entering if you actually physically move something to get in. So if the door is wide open and you walk through, that is not B&E, but if the door is mostly closed and you simply push and it swings open, then it is.

I think they still charge you with unlawful entry in the first case though.

 

Anyway, wutevs. 

[Tantum Ergo]

Using someone's unprotected wifi is not a sin.  Almost all internet routers require you to establish a password during the installation wizard, or come with one already pre-programmed.  You have to actually choose to make it not password protected.  It's like owning a bridge.  I can charge a toll for the bridge (the password), and anyone who pays the toll can cross it.  But if I don't charge a toll for the bridge, it's not wrong for people to cross it without paying the toll, just because I own the bridge. It's only immoral if I charge a toll and people run across the bridge without paying it.  

 

Just because it's not password protected doesn't mean it's okay to use it. It's not a public road or bridge. It's a private service that someone is paying for, for their own use. According to the Catechism, stealing is taking or using another's property without their permission. You just can't assume someone's permission is granted because it's not password protected. Sure the new routers give you a password almost automatically, but it didn't used to be that way. There's a lot of people with old routers who didn't understand how to set it up properly with a password back when they set up their wireless internet. 

 

Again, how is it any different than stealing tv cable? 

 

Anyways, it's a really stupid idea to use someone else's network in the first place, because it gives them all your data. There's no way you can know they didn't set it up that way on purpose to steal your private information. 

 

 

Streaming is not downloading.  Downloading makes a copy of the file and sticks it on your own hard drive.  Streaming runs the file from a 3rd party source.  It's the difference between making a copy of a movie and giving it out to your friends, and inviting them all over to watch the movie at your house.  This is why the government can crack down on people who download illegally, but have to catch streamers literally in the act of streaming.  And the FBI has better things to do.

Streaming technically IS downloading. The data has to be downloaded to your computer for you to view it, it just downloads it in increments and then removes the data of what has already been viewed. It is illegal to steam illegal content. How it is not immoral also? Not only are you breaking a just law, but you're not paying for something that you should be paying for. There are plenty of legal streaming services out there to watch movies on, like amazon and itunes.

 

 

This is why the government can crack down on people who download illegally, but have to catch streamers literally in the act of streaming.

 

False. The government CAN crack down on people who stream movies illegally. There is proof left on your computer's hard drive from the data that was downloaded from the streaming video. It's just not visible to you. Anything that you download on your harddrive is left on your hard drive, even if you put it in the "recycling bin" and delete it from the recycling bin. The government has tools that can find it. The only way you can get rid of it completely is to totally physically destroy your hard drive. Also, the website that you streamed from has your IP, and the government can take down the website or force the website to give up all the IPs of people who downloaded/streamed illegal content. This has happened in the past with youtube and google and other websites. Whether they DO go after every illegal website and downloader out there is another matter, but they surely can. Your information and browsing history is not safe or private on the internet. 

 

 

Other than legality (as Nihil pointed out, legality =/= morality, and for this case I'm ignoring any "we have a moral obligation to follow the law" arguments, and instead focusing on the act itself), is there any discernible difference between live streaming your television online and inviting friends over for a movie night?

 

The cable content does not belong to you and I. The copyright belongs to various entertainment companies that produced and created the content. Since it is their property, only they have the right to distribute that content to others. When you pay for cable, you're paying for the right to view that content in your own home. You can invite friends over to view it with you - you're viewing it in your own home and it's a fun, social thing. Streaming it to your friends over the internet is very different because you're clearly distributing something to others that you don't have the right to distribute. You're not watching it together in a social way, the same as watching it together at someone's house. There's also no way you can guarantee that your friends won't keep the content permanently. 

[Tantum Ergo]

[sorry, accidental double post]

Edited January 13, 2013 by Tantum Ergo

[Aloysius]

when you broadcast a wifi signal, you're broadcasting it to everyone around.  tapping into such a wifi signal is no different than tuning into a radio station.  it is freely broadcast.  it's pretty well legally established that that wifi signal is NOT someone else's property that you'd be stealing, it has the same legal status as a radio signal.

 

plenty of people actually leave their wifi signal without password protection because they don't mind sharing.

 

unless you password protect your wifi signal, you are broadcasting it to share.  you have every legal right to do so, unlike cable which you do not have the rights to share.  but connecting to a wifi signal is never stealing (unless you hacked into a password protected wifi signal) any more than tuning into a radio station is stealing from the radio.  it all depends on if they're holding it as their own property or broadcasting it freely, and then the question would become whether they have the rights to share it freely (your neighbor pays for cable with an agreement that it's only allowed to be used in his house, so he doesn't have the right to share it with you, but his agreement with the internet provider does not have that status and therefore he has the right to share it with you if he wishes)

[fides' Jack]

"Stealing wifi"?  As in, "stealing" access to someone's network?  

 

Or are we talking about using someone's unprotected wifi to gain access to the internet?  Well, then, you're technically stealing cable/dsl/whatever - so even if the wifi part isn't really stealing, you're still stealing a service from a company - not necessarily from the person you accessed it from.

 

Aloysius - I think you're off your rocker here.  A wifi signal does not have the same legal status as a radio signal.  The only similarity is that it uses a radio signal.  But the dynamics are all different - with a radio, you're just receiving.  With networks, there's back and forth data being transmitted.  I think the recent thing with Google is enough to prove that it's not considered the same legally as a radio.

Also - anyone with an unprotected access point isn't going to be savvy enough to be able to actually get information about encrypted information going to computers on their network.  Unless that's their intent.  :)

[Aloysius]

it is 100% legal to use a wifi signal that is not password protected.  there is no law against it, no one has ever gotten legally in trouble for it, it is, quite simply, not against the law in any way.

 

it is 100% legal to share your wifi signal with as many people as can access it.  I have never heard of an internet access wifi contract that limited how many people you were allowed to give access to your wifi signal, I don't think such an agreement exists.  it is not treated the way cable is.

 

if you broadcast a wifi signal without a password, you are inviting people to share it.  plently of people do this knowing full well that they are sharing, there is nothing wrong with them doing that.

 

it is not legal to share your cable with others, your cable contract specifies that.

[Aloysius]

after a quick google search it's actually possible I'm mistaken and there might be some laws in some places against it.... for the most part, however, I agree with this assessment:

 

http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_its_ok_to_steal_wi_fi

 

I don't really consider accessing a wifi signal to be "stealing" in any sense of the word, unless you deliberately hack into it, because if it's being freely broadcast it's being freely shared, and they have every right to freely share it.

 

however, it is possible that there are some laws in some places against it.

[Winchester]

Hacking a cable wire is a form of trespass. Accessing a wifi signal that enters your property is not.