My Cloister Experience And The Next Step.

[savvy]

I wrote, about how the Monastic community of Jerusalem, that I am discerning, with, had asked me to visit other contemplative orders, to have different experiences.  

 

I spent a few days, at the Carmel. It was peaceful, but I was bored. I stayed in a guest room. The sisters have strict enclosure, so the only sister in the room next to me was the extern sister, but she was great.  I felt that I discern better, if I participate in the daily life with the sisters and get to know as many of them as possible.  I did get to talk to the sisters ocassionally and it was a relief.

 

It was like I was waiting for someone to talk too. I joined the sisters in prayer, but I was in the Chapel, and they were on the other side. It's a good thing, they gave me a notepad, in the reading material, they gave me, about their community.  I think I used the whole thing up,  just writing. I just needed an outlet for my thoughts. I finally asked for some work, and I got envelopes to stamp. 

 

I came to the Carmel, for St, Therese of Lisieux, but the strange part is that I felt her presence more stronger in Jerusalem, than I did at Carmel. I did speak to the Mother prioress, and she told me to try a community that is contemplative, but not cloistered.

 

Some of the sisters I spoke, with told me that they just knew, the moment they drove in,  that they were called there. Carmel is a special vocation, and I am glad I tried, but it's not for me. 

 

The next on my list were the Dominicans, but I am now in two minds, since they are cloistered, too. I would not want to visit if it would be the same thing, i.e. not being able to participate in their daily life, needing an outlet etc. I do not how different a Dominican order would be from the Carmelites.

 

So, it's obvious that God is pointing towards Jerusalem again. I just hope they do not tell, me to look around some more or something else like that.  I have also started another novena to Therese, asking her help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheresaThoma]

Talk with the Dominicans to see what their retreat "style" is like. Sometimes policies regarding the cloister are a bit different for discerners than for the average retreatant. I know even with non cloistered Sisters there are places (the Sister's chapel, the refectory etc) that aren't open to people outside of the community but when I was on a come and see I was able to go to those places. Each community will have different policies regarding discerners so it it worth a try to check it out.

Prayers for you whatever you decide.

[savvy]

Talk with the Dominicans to see what their retreat "style" is like. Sometimes policies regarding the cloister are a bit different for discerners than for the average retreatant. I know even with non cloistered Sisters there are places (the Sister's chapel, the refectory etc) that aren't open to people outside of the community but when I was on a come and see I was able to go to those places. Each community will have different policies regarding discerners so it it worth a try to check it out.

Prayers for you whatever you decide.

 

Theresa Thoma, I did speak to the Dominican sister on the phone today. I did ask her this question, and told her about my experience in Carmel.  She did say it would be the same way for the first visit.  I would be staying at the guest house and the sisters would come visit, me, but I would not be going inside the monastery. I had to decline, because it's a quite a distance for me to travel.  The sister also told me it was not the external, but it was how I was feeling on the inside, that I should spend my time listening to the inner voice. 

 

I was quite surprised, at Carmel, because I am quite by nature, but I just wanted to talk to someone when I was there. It was like I needed an outlet.  

 

 

[Rosa immaculata]

Ave Maria!

 

Great news for you in some way Savvy! I just indicate you the Sisters Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest; they are contemplative but not cloistered... Anycase, you are right to go back to the sisters of the Community of Jerusalem if you are attracted; perhaps they could welcome you for some days; I visited them in Rome but not for discernment; it is a particular way of living the monastic life; a sister said to me they don't have a precise hour to go to bed: they have a candle in their cell and they can read or pray until the hour they want, but they have to get up at 5:00 am so they are reasonnable :); the organization of the communities in less hierarchic than a Benedictine one for example; the novices are not distinguished by a special habit etc; on Friday, the meals are taken in self-service because the meals are simple (penance day: potatoes ...) but the other days the food is very good; the morning too they take breakfast in self-service and they are free to take it before or after Lauds (depends on the work and the "health" of the sister); under the blue scapular, they (can) wear a cross that they can adorn with a medal if they want... all the meals are taken in silence and after it there is a recreation where they drink coffee; somedays, they listen to music (sacred I think:) )... and I am sure you know they have the desert day (on Monday in Paris and Rome).

 

All these things are superficial though and a sister from the community of Rome said them to me; so perhaps the things are a bit or pretty different in your country (besides, in Rome they run an hostellery so they invite the persons who help them to eat with them etc, so it is perhaps the reason of the coffee and the good food on meals)... My first spiritual director was a monk of the community of Paris...

 

I hope it will be helpul for you though, and I pray for you, but definitely, go to see them!!! I also encourage you to read Sources Vives if you can; it is a spiritual rewiew, and monks and sisters write article on a theme, so it is very interesting for you to read them to know how they pray, conceive the faith and the religious life (often they consecrate an article/book to it, in relation with the general theme); but sorry if you don't speak French, I don't remeber if you do. Courage!

[nikita92]

It probably would have been nice if you would of had someone outline what to expect regarding a "first visit"! Also some time set aside for a Q and A session with a Sister once you had spent a night or two, just in case you had formed a gee whizz question or two. Then again, that may be something the community addresses after one's initial visit with them. The part of your statement that stands out the most to me...is "I needed a outlet" if your inner voice was saying.."bored,restless,outlet"...you might want to ask yourself "what are my expectations of a cloistered community?" What is the minimum verbal outlet-expression etc. would you feel comfortable with, in order to feel positive about living in a cloistered community? I'm flying half way across the states for a "come and see" this community is active/contemplative...I better e-mail the Superior and inquire if I will be staying in their convent or retreat quarters..I doubt I will just be shown a room and left with just my inner voice to experience. At least you are fulfilling the suggestion part of your community (Jerusalem) request! O;-)

[TIWW]

Savvy, best of luck to you. The Jerusalem Community is a wonderful and unique group. I am only familiar with the  one in Paris,

since I had a friend with them. I visited her a few times and went to Office at St Gervais, which is truly beautiful, but unfortunately I do not speak French. I eventually began to bring my own LOTH with me. As you know, the  Jerusalem Community consists of monks, nuns and lay people who wish to share the same spirituality through different vocations, living "in the heart of the city, in the heart of God". The combination of  the apostolic, contemplative and monastic aspects of this life really identify this Community as one unlike any other. May God Bless you on your journey.

[savvy]

I just indicate you the Sisters Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest; they are contemplative but not cloistered... Anycase, you are right to go back to the sisters of the Community of Jerusalem if you are attracted; perhaps they could welcome you for some days; I visited them in Rome but not for discernment; it is a particular way of living the monastic life; a sister said to me they don't have a precise hour to go to bed: they have a candle in their cell and they can read or pray until the hour they want, but they have to get up at 5:00 am so they are reasonnable  :); the organization of the communities in less hierarchic than a Benedictine one for example; the novices are not distinguished by a special habit etc; on Friday, the meals are taken in self-service because the meals are simple (penance day: potatoes ...) but the other days the food is very good; the morning too they take breakfast in self-service and they are free to take it before or after Lauds (depends on the work and the "health" of the sister); under the blue scapular, they (can) wear a cross that they can adorn with a medal if they want... all the meals are taken in silence and after it there is a recreation where they drink coffee; somedays, they listen to music (sacred I think:) )... and I am sure you know they have the desert day (on Monday in Paris and Rome).

 

This community in Montreal, has the grand silence begin at 9:30 p.m, but they do have a fixed time to go to bed. They do wake up at 5 for meditation and then lauds at 6 during the week. On the weekends, it's pushed one hour ahead, so they have meditation at 6 and lauds at 7. Yes, Monday is desert day, Breakfast is self-service, Thursday is night night, where they fast, or eat they want to, since they take turns for adoration during the night. Friday is self-service too. The meals are in silence, where they read or listen to music. At recreation they sit around the coffee table, but you do not have to drink coffee :) and they usually have a guest come. The other days, they are allowed to have tea or coffee after the meal.

 

Since, they could not give me any professional work, when I was there. I was given chores around the house to do.

 

The only concern the sisters had was that they were faster than me :) so they asked me to try a more contemplative community, or see if I might find a rhythm that fit. They did not mind the slowness, their concern was just that they did not want me to burnout,  because that would not be monastic.

 

I took on class in French, but would have to learn if I do join them.

 

Your prayers would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[savvy]

Also some time set aside for a Q and A session with a Sister once you had spent a night or two, just in case you had formed a gee whizz question or two. Then again, that may be something the community addresses after one's initial visit with them. 

 

 Nikita, I knew silence would be an expectation. What I was not prepared for was my reaction to it. I did have time for a Q & A with the prioress, the novice mistress, and the extern sister.  But, I still felt like I needed to participate, to taste and feel a community, to be precise, to establish a certain comfort zone. I know from past experience that the initial attraction is important. This was instant on my first visit with Jerusalem, even though the language was different.  

 

Good luck on your visit. If the community is not strictly cloistered, then you do not have to worry about this.

 

 

I visited her a few times and went to Office at St Gervais, which is truly beautiful, but unfortunately I do not speak French. I eventually began to bring my own LOTH with me. As you know, the  Jerusalem Community consists of monks, nuns and lay people who wish to share the same spirituality through different vocations, living "in the heart of the city, in the heart of God". The combination of  the apostolic, contemplative and monastic aspects of this life really identify this Community as one unlike any other. May God Bless you on your journey.

 

 

 

Thanks TIWW.  On my first visit, I did not speak a word of French, but felt so at home, which was very strange, because I am the kind of person who takes time to warm up to people. The second visit I took some basic French, before I went, but it was not enough, but the experience was still beautiful.  As I mentioned, the only concern the sisters had was that they were faster than me  :) so they asked me to try a more contemplative community, or see if I might find a rhythm that fit. They also did not want me to have regrets or "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome, since this has happened to them before. People did join, and then left for other communities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2013 by savvy

[lanpingpug]

I know some people have a hard time finding just the right balance of contemplative/active when looking at different orders but since God wants you, you'll find one. I shall keep you in my prayers.

[nikita92]

Understood and Thank you! They do sound wonderful! :-) You are in our prayers and keep up on the French!! ;-))

[Gabriela]

I just indicate you the Sisters Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest; they are contemplative but not cloistered... 

 

Presently their only house is in Rome.

[emmaAntigonos]

Presently their only house is in Rome.

 

I think you are in error here; their motherhouse is in northern Italy, at Gricigliano [sp?] although the order is French-speaking.  They have a recent foundation in Switzerland, too.

 

I believe at least one of the sisters is American.

[Gabriela]

I think you are in error here; their motherhouse is in northern Italy, at Gricigliano [sp?] although the order is French-speaking.  They have a recent foundation in Switzerland, too.

 

I believe at least one of the sisters is American.

 

I think you're right. I wrote to Mother a few weeks ago. Here's what she said:

 

 

Good morning,

 

You asked informations about the community, if we had a house in America: unfortunately, we don't have, maybe in the future... The mother house is in Italy.

Happy new year, God bless you!

 

Mother Caroline-Marie

 

-- 

Ne consultant pas internet tous les jours,  vie religieuse oblige, nous vous

saurons gré de bien

vouloir patienter avant de recevoir une réponse.

De manière générale, il est bien de nous contacter par courrier postal.

Avec tous nos remerciements

 

Adoratrices du Coeur Royal de Jésus-Christ Souverain Prêtre

Maison du Coeur Royal

Via di Gricigliano, 45

50065 SIECI (FI)

 

I knew it was Italy. I assumed Rome. Sorry! I think two of the sisters are American, though I can't remember where I heard/read that...

[emmaAntigonos]

I think you're right. I wrote to Mother a few weeks ago. Here's what she said:

 

 

Good morning,

 

You asked informations about the community, if we had a house in America: unfortunately, we don't have, maybe in the future... The mother house is in Italy.

Happy new year, God bless you!

 

Mother Caroline-Marie

 

-- 

Ne consultant pas internet tous les jours,  vie religieuse oblige, nous vous

saurons gré de bien

vouloir patienter avant de recevoir une réponse.

De manière générale, il est bien de nous contacter par courrier postal.

Avec tous nos remerciements

 

Adoratrices du Coeur Royal de Jésus-Christ Souverain Prêtre

Maison du Coeur Royal

Via di Gricigliano, 45

50065 SIECI (FI)

 

I knew it was Italy. I assumed Rome. Sorry! I think two of the sisters are American, though I can't remember where I heard/read that...

 

"Infused Knowledge" -- sorry, that's the blog name, not the nom de phatmass -- spent about 6 weeks there.  She recently posted that she'd returned, at least for now, to the wider world.  Would love to hear more about the order from her [hint :-)]

[savvy]

Thanks for your prayers. I do not know why this discernment process is so hard. I am waiting to hear back from the Jerusalem sisters. What if God does not want me in religious life? I mean, I would have found have found a place by now. Has anybody else been through a similar struggle.

 

 

 

[OnlySunshine]

Thanks for your prayers. I do not know why this discernment process is so hard. I am waiting to hear back from the Jerusalem sisters. What if God does not want me in religious life? I mean, I would have found have found a place by now. Has anybody else been through a similar struggle.

 

 

 

 

I think most, if not all, discerning go through this at some stage in their discernment.  I've been through it several times -- most recently in the last month when the order I had applied to told me I wasn't accepted.  However, a few days later I realized that the desire in my heart never disappeared and I could not give up, no matter how difficult it was.  NO ONE is worthy to receive the call, but just imagine if no one did!  There would not be a valuable witness to the world of Christ's love and mercy!  This is the time for courage.  Ask God to help you push through this time of uncertainty.  I read a very insightful meditation yesterday that I needed to read and I think it applies here for your situation:

 

 

Do whatever he tells you. -- John 2:5

 

Can we really change God's mind?  Well, maybe.  Let's take a look at a few stories from Scripture where poeple appear to do just this.

 

Matthew tells of a Canaanite women who asks Jesus to help her daughter (Matthew 15:21-28).  At first, Jesus wasn't very accommodating.  But this woman would not be denied.  Ultimately, her persistance paid off, and Jesus gave her what she asked for.  And who can forget the way Moses convinced God not to destroy the Israelites after they had committed idolatry with the golden calf (Exodus 32:1-14)?

 

Today's Gospel is another example.  When Mary asked Jesus to resolve an embarrassing predicament at a wedding reception, he first told her, "My hour has not yet come" (John 2:4).  But then he went ahead and turned jars of water into choice wine, just as she asked him to do.

 

What's more, Scripture tells us, "The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful" (James 5:16).  It is fervent prayer that influences God.  It's faith that moves mountains.  So it seems that we really can influence God.

 

Of course, we still have to deal with the question of why some of our prayer appear to go unanswered -- even our fervent, faith-filled pleas for help.  Here is where we come face-to-face with the mystery of God's will and his wisdom.  God knows what is best, and there are times when we simply have to trust him, as a child trusts its father.

 

This is what makes Mary's response so important for us: "Do whatever he tells you."  If you are trying your best to be right with God and if you are persistent in asking for something in prayer, God will hear you.  You have done all you can do, and now you can leave it in God's hands, surrendering like Mary, committed to doing "whatever he tells you."

 

http://www.wau.org/

Edited January 21, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[savvy]

MaterMisericordiae,

Thank you for sharing that. Reminds me of yesterday's sermon at Mass. We bring God our water, and he turns it into the best wine. 

 

 

 

[organwerke]

Thanks for your prayers. I do not know why this discernment process is so hard. I am waiting to hear back from the Jerusalem sisters. What if God does not want me in religious life? I mean, I would have found have found a place by now. Has anybody else been through a similar struggle.

 

 

 

 

Dear savvy, I wouldn't be so sad: you seem to be quite sure about how you feel with the Community of Jeruslem.

You could tell the sisters you tried to do as they suggested but you couldn't feel at home with the other communities as you did with them. I think they could take you in consideration...even if they are "faster" I think this would be a very little reason to refuse you.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Thanks for your prayers. I do not know why this discernment process is so hard. I am waiting to hear back from the Jerusalem sisters. What if God does not want me in religious life? I mean, I would have found have found a place by now. Has anybody else been through a similar struggle.

 

 

 

 

I will say a Hail Mary for you, and for all with struggles in their discernment, when I go to Holy Hour today. Please say a prayer for me also.

 

I believe what is really important when these trials and obstacles come around is to be faithful to what is in your heart. Just keep going no matter what gets thrown at or around you and be faithful to your part, Our Lord will do His in His time. Sometimes when I see all my trials and obstacles that seem to be in the way, I gather them up before me and when I reflect on everything I see that I just have to will it; I have to will to keep going no matter what happens or what I'm feeling when times get heavy. I honestly believe that being faithful and courageous during these times is going to be of great help in religious life when other trials come around, because they will certainly come around also when we do enter. I think part of all this is to strengthen us for what is ahead and to help us grow in virtue to be well prepared for the sacrifices and trials we will endure. Its important to keep this in mind during times of trial now because it will help us keep pushing on to what we really desire; to give ourselves completely to Jesus in the religious life, so be sure to give yourself to Him now  through everything. All shall be well, and everything will work out. It helps to repeat often, "Jesus, I trust in You." :)

Edited January 21, 2013 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[Chiquitunga]

I will say a Hail Mary for you, and for all with struggles in their discernment, when I go to Holy Hour today. Please say a prayer for me also.

 

I believe what is really important when these trials and obstacles come around is to be faithful to what is in your heart. Just keep going no matter what gets thrown at or around you and be faithful to your part, Our Lord will do His in His time. Sometimes when I see all my trials and obstacles that seem to be in the way, I gather them up before me and when I reflect on everything I see that I just have to will it; I have to will to keep going no matter what happens or what I'm feeling when times get heavy. I honestly believe that being faithful and courageous during these times is going to be of great help in religious life when other trials come around, because they will certainly come around also when we do enter. I think part of all this is to strengthen us for what is ahead and to help us grow in virtue to be well prepared for the sacrifices and trials we will endure. Its important to keep this in mind during times of trial now because it will help us keep pushing on to what we really desire; to give ourselves completely to Jesus in the religious life, so be sure to give yourself to Him now  through everything. All shall be well, and everything will work out. It helps to repeat often, "Jesus, I trust in You." :)

 

Props to this!! :pray:  This is encouraging .. thank you!