Unity

[Crusader_4]

Let us stand in Union with our Brothers in Christ and share in our baptismal vows. I have had enough of this endless babber about areas where we have no authority. Therfore lets cool our tempers and let cooler heads prevail. Here is a good old topic to debate whether or not who is the greatest Saint?

I say Aquinas or Augustine or Ignatius...there are soo many who do you think and why?

[PedroX]

St. Thomas More

Still regarded as one of (if not the) greatest lawyers the English language has ever produced. Worked for reform in the Church, until the Lutheran heresy sprung up. He then trained his amazing intellect on defending the Church from all errors and eventually lost his life because he would not deny the papacy. He wrote many beautiful prayers. He was also a faithful and loving father and husband. His letters to his daughter are really worth reading.

I also like St. Joseph a lot.

peace...

[MorphRC]

Pax Iesus Christi

I dont understand what you mean by Unity, I mean Christianity is united, Catholicism is Christianity. That is what Priests, Deacons and the Popes have taught, Christianity is One and is in Unity. Its Protestant, Fundamentalist etc Christianity that is in turmoil, and outside the flock. I know it sounds harsh, but I dont get why everyone goes we must unite, its more they need to come Home to God's Church, they were the ones that left.

I appreciate your view Crusader, but once they deny the Church any communion or union they had with the Church through the Baptism Sacrament is severed, until they recognize the holy Father, Successor of St. Peter, first Bishop of Rome.

Paul.

[jasJis]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='May 25 2004, 02:46 AM'] I appreciate your view Crusader, but once they deny the Church any communion or union they had with the Church through the Baptism Sacrament is severed, until they recognize the holy Father, Successor of St. Peter, first Bishop of Rome.

Paul. [/quote]
Your statement is misleading. All Protestants have not rejected the Church. If they were raised Protestant, they don't have the benefit of a truthful knowledge of the Church and cannot be blamed for the sin of seperatoni. They ARE our brothers and sisters in Christ by the effects of Baptism.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='May 25 2004, 04:46 AM']
I appreciate your view Crusader, but once they deny the Church any communion or union they had with the Church through the Baptism Sacrament is severed, until they recognize the holy Father, Successor of St. Peter, first Bishop of Rom [/quote]
Most protestants have no clue that their baptism relates them to the Catholic Church thru the Body of Christ.

You can't fix something if you don't know its broken.

[Crusader_4]

Lets slow down here a second...

1) i was reffering to Catholics and Catholics (not protestants although those who were baptised using the trinitarian formula could be included as well)

2) What about Ignatius i think he is a great saint starting the Jesuits and fighting the errors of those who are outside the Church what do you think? Or Athanasius who stood up against the arian heresy while most of the world was embracing it true Heros.

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='May 25 2004, 06:43 AM'] Most protestants have no clue that their baptism relates them to the Catholic Church thru the Body of Christ.

You can't fix something if you don't know its broken. [/quote]
if by some miracle, I am an unofficial member of the Catholic Church, hoorah...

I can deal with that.

but can you deal with the fact that I don't in any way subject myself to the authority of the Pope, or all the teachings of the Magesterium?

or do you have no choice in the matter?

just wondering.

God bless.

[Quietfire]

ooooooh,can I answer that? tomorrow?
Me tired.
Me need sweep. :sleep:

[crusader1234]

Villhelm is in over his head... or is he? I see a Jesuit in the offing...

[MorphRC]

[quote name='jasJis' date='May 25 2004, 07:32 AM'] Your statement is misleading. All Protestants have not rejected the Church. If they were raised Protestant, they don't have the benefit of a truthful knowledge of the Church and cannot be blamed for the sin of seperatoni. They ARE our brothers and sisters in Christ by the effects of Baptism. [/quote]
Pax Iesus

True. I should have put more detail into it. But if they knowingly disobey the Church, they are severed.

Pax Iesus Christi
Paul

[MorphRC]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 25 2004, 01:24 PM'] if by some miracle, I am an unofficial member of the Catholic Church, hoorah...

I can deal with that.

but can you deal with the fact that I don't in any way subject myself to the authority of the Pope, or all the teachings of the Magesterium?

or do you have no choice in the matter?

just wondering.

God bless. [/quote]
Pax Iesus

You are a member of the Catholic Church. However since you stated that you do not subject yourself to the Pope, you are no longer, but a heretic. If you want to join the Body of Christ again, you must be united with her through some type of program, many people go to RCIA, and are joined with her usually at Easter time.

Im not sure what it entails exactly, but its usually about a 8 month course, from what converts have told me.

Pax Iesus Christi
Paul.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='May 26 2004, 12:29 AM'] Pax Iesus

You are a member of the Catholic Church. However since you stated that you do not subject yourself to the Pope, you are no longer, but a heretic. If you want to join the Body of Christ again, you must be united with her through some type of program, many people go to RCIA, and are joined with her usually at Easter time.

Im not sure what it entails exactly, but its usually about a 8 month course, from what converts have told me.

Pax Iesus Christi
Paul. [/quote]
Lumberjack is not a Catholic.

[MorphRC]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='May 25 2004, 10:47 PM'] Lumberjack is not a Catholic. [/quote]
Pax Iesus

I know. But he [i]was[/i] through baptism.

Pax Iesus Christi
Paul

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 24 2004, 11:18 PM'] Let us stand in Union with our Brothers in Christ and share in our baptismal vows. I have had enough of this endless babber about areas where we have no authority. Therfore lets cool our tempers and let cooler heads prevail. Here is a good old topic to debate whether or not who is the greatest Saint?

I say Aquinas or Augustine or Ignatius...there are soo many who do you think and why? [/quote]
Greater? I would prefer to say equal all with their own gifts given to them by God, and using their weakness to glorify His Holy Name. I can't judge that though!

All Glory goes to God, and if the saints were alive I think they would say this, for Christ said the one who is the least among you is the greatest.

Pax

[qfnol31]

I like the original topic.

I think that besides Mary (who cannot be summed up very well, and very easily wins title of greatest just because she was without sin and Mother of God) the greatest Saint would have to be Peter. He was hand-picked by Jesus, then set as head of the Church. All of the other saints in history who came after him are subbordinate to him and he leads us all.

[Dusty Fro]

St. Thomas More also helped to burn a few heretics at the stake. Go Tommy.

Actually I read his book Utopia and liked it a lot.

[Bruce S]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 24 2004, 11:18 PM'] Let us stand in Union with our Brothers in Christ and share in our baptismal vows.  I have had enough of this endless babber about areas where we have no authority.  Therfore lets cool our tempers and let cooler heads prevail. 

[b]Here is a good old topic to debate whether or not [color=red]who is the greatest Saint?[/color]

I say Aquinas or Augustine or Ignatius...there are soo many who do you think and why? [/b]
[/quote]

You ARE aware, are you not, that SEEKING the most IMPORTANT of the "saints" is directly contrary to what Jesus taught, aren't you?

[quote]Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, [b]Who is [color=red]the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?[/color]  [/b]


Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 


Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 


[b] Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [/b]


Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 


Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 


Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 
[/quote]

Saints, in scripture, refers ONLY to living Christians, and THEY are taught, by the master Himself, to seek HUMILTY, not GREATNESS.

Nor, are WE to elevate them, for it dishonors them, and Jesus's teachings.

Neither while alive, and certainly not in heaven above after dying. Why should ONLY a few thousand DEAD Christians be worthy of respect, honor, and rememberance? There have been a few BILLION that have died in the good graces of God, and it is very safe to assume that there were a few million that had life stories that were edifying, and above average.

The "Saint System" as it is currently practiced, with JP II, churning out MORE new Saints, than ALL other Popes in history, is now riddled with oddities, and the most recent example, being Anne Catherine Emmerich, to be beatified, ONLY after her book was turned into a BEST seller by Hollywood and Mel Gibson's PASSION movie, is a prime example. Before this time, A.C.E., languished in obscurity, now she is a celebrity because of the movie.



FWIW, the Protestant ... and scriptural viewpoint on this matter.

Edited June 7, 2004 by Bruce S

[qfnol31]

Do you know what the definition of a "Saint" is vs. a "saint"?

By the way, Anne has been listed as venerable for a while. The case did not open with the movie and her book turning bestseller. That was just a mere coincidence.

You also need to read more St. Thomas Aquinas, or even Aristotle. I won't be fully myself until after I leave this earth (actually, after the resurrection of the body, but just about the same difference). Now I'm plagued with impurities and stuff...Anyway, my point is that we can't really be less living in Heaven. That's a contradiction and makes no sense. That's why I wonder why you refer to them as dead. Really, except for the fact that most have no body there, the souls in Heaven are much more alive than we are.

[Crusader_4]

Bruce S. I am not refering to the greatest Saint in that sense perhaps which Christian saint is your favourite or even the Saint that has had the most impact in Christiainty...its not who is the greatest in that pre Jesus messainic thinking...its more of admiring who we think is the greatest work of art. Who was it in our opinnons that demonstrated Christ the most to other followers...that is what i am getting at and if it wrong to think about that....then there are some issues its who do you think is a great role model...obvisouly we are not saying that Jesus is less since he sanctifiys all.

[Bruce S]

On that basis I go with "St." Paul.

Romans, and pride of denomination.

Those passages opened up a new realm for me.

But not, perhaps, in the way, one might expect them too.

[url="http://www.redemptoristpublications.com/reality/may04/churchpower.html"]http://www.redemptoristpublications.com/re...hurchpower.html[/url]

Edited June 8, 2004 by Bruce S