Would You "cross The Pond" For Your Vocation?

[savvy]

 

I have lived oversees and speak four languages, when I learn French it will be five. 

 

I want to evangelise in Europe and pray for the return to Christianity there. Religious are so needed there, and I personally relate much better to European cultures than to the US culture.

 

Hey, me too. I have no idea why God led me to a French community, after several English speaking ones. I just gave up looking and was praying, Lord lead me to the place where you want me.

 

 

[Eowyn]

Yes, I would consider it.  Whether it happens or not is in God's hands.

[MarieLynn]

I voted yes, because that is exactly what I did, - many years ago!

 

The order that I was once part of, had their postulant house in Melbourne and their novitiate in Sydney, Australia.    We NZ girls, and those from the  Pacific Islands,  were required to go to Australia to enter.      

 

When you are 17, it is a huge step going away to another country, but we all did it, and gladly.    Unfortunately many of the non- Australian postulants soon succumbed to homesickness, and eventually left, so the order decided that for the first 6 months, the postulant could remain in her own country, and was only required to go to Australia to complete the final part of the postulancy period, and her 2yrs in the novitiate.    How's that for forward thinking?

  

 

 

[cmaD2006]

I thought as much.  Thank you for the confirmation. 

What happens re residency in another country if one does 'cross the pond' - is a temporary visa granted say for a few years before one applies for permanent residency if one decides that the community is indeed one's vocation?

 

As others have said it really, really depends on the country and community.

 

 

In my case -- I entered on a tourist visa, and made sure that the community did the appropriate paperwork for the resident visa.  I was given the visa without any real hassles.  The biggest hassle was actually making sure that the community did what they needed to.

 

 

Case in point -- a fellow postulant (who left almost when I did) was from a different country.  She didn't get on the community's case about her visa expiring.  Well it did -- and the community did not do her paperwork.  When she left and try to cross the boarder into her country, she had to pay a fine because her visa expired -- and a stranger had to pick up the fee (she only had enough to get home).

 

 

I however, being so overly sensitive to visa issues (because of the whole immigration issue here in the US), gave an ultimatum to the community when my visa had 2 days left.  I said "or you fix my paperwork, or I get on the plane to return to the US because I'm NOT going to stay in the country illegally when I have no reason to." (I had a return ticket for the day that the visa would expire).  Needless to say (at the time they still wanted me in the community) they got the paperwork started and once the paperwork is filed then I was considered legally still in the country.

 

 

What was said is true w.r.t. the return home (if needed) -- when I entered I made sure that I had sufficient funds/credit to go home with.  I needed those funds, and a bit more.

Edited February 8, 2013 by cmariadiaz

[BarbTherese]

Thank you.  It does strike me as very important that one becomes conversant with visa issues right at the start if one should be discerning a community overseas - and from your response, that one ensures that the community involved is prepared to do their part if one should enter a community overseas.  What I would be doing at the beginning of discernment is contacting the Dept of Immigration and becoming thoroughly conversant with the whole issue of entering a religious order overseas - in fact, I would have a contact/contact point in the department for any questions that may arise.  Any leadership of a community ideally would be sensitive to the notion that if one overstays one's visa one is in illegal status and an offense and perhaps a criminal offense.

I thought that a return ticket to ensure that one is back home prior to any visa expiring might be a good move and to alert the community involved to this fact.  Ideally, this would be a refundable or transferable ticket, if such exists.

There is certainly a fair bit to investigate and a really good move to have a thread where questions can be answered for those who might be considering 'crossing the pond'.

  At this point, I dont even have a passport :) nor a vocation to religious life :)  Yet all things are possible to God and the story of Zachary and Elizabeth HERE illustrates that sometimes He does do the seemingly impossible even at a mature age when one can feel that the major details of one's life are pretty much already stated. 

[cmaD2006]

Stuff in italics from BarbaraTherese (sorry ... I tried doing my usual cut and paste but the browser isn't cooperating).

 

It does strike me as very important that one becomes conversant with visa issues right at the start if one should be discerning a community overseas - and from your response, that one ensures that the community involved is prepared to do their part if one should enter a community overseas.  ....

Any leadership of a community ideally would be sensitive to the notion that if one overstays one's visa one is in illegal status and an offense and perhaps a criminal offense.

 

The interesting thing is that each country is sooooo different.  I remember looking up the visa details ahead of time, and just saying "ok -- not worrying about it, I'll let the community work on it" because I suspected that it didn't exactly work as stated.  I was right (case in point -- I went to Bolivia, and what was on the website about the 5 year tourist visa and what actually happened when I got to the border were TWO different things).

 

I thought that a return ticket to ensure that one is back home prior to any visa expiring might be a good move and to alert the community involved to this fact.  Ideally, this would be a refundable or transferable ticket, if such exists.

 

Actually a lot of times in order to get the tourist visa you may need proof of your return (i.e. a returning ticket).  Since a round trip ticket is 99% cheaper (especially international) than a one way that is usually the way to go.

 

I'm not a typical candidate -- I am a go-getter, assertive, independent gal who has been surviving on her own for YEARS.  So yep -- I did some homework, and was a "pain" when it came to the visa.  I mean think about it this way -- I'm from the US, and in the US I was able to support myself without any issues.  I have a career.  Well educated.  No reason to leave the US other than for a religious vocation.  So -- WHY would I want to stay illegally in a country that is not my own, and not be able to depend on myself and be totally dependent on a community that hasn't done my paperwork? (That's why I was quite point-blank about not overstaying my visa.)

 

I should have at that point taken it as a sign of what was to come ... I didn't.  Actually even after the paperwork was started things were going ok(for another 3 months!).  Things went south as soon as I resigned from the leave of absence my job gave me.

[BarbTherese]

Thank you once again.  Your posts certainly underscore how important it is to do all the homework before 'crossing the pond' - and important issues to raise I think for those that may be considering this move.  I recall the problems that nunsense had re Carmel Wolverhampton in the UK and I really admired just how serenely she seemed to move through the various problems of 'crossing the pond', trusting in God all the way.  She is in my daily prayers.

[EmilyAnn]

As a little light-hearted note, one sister I know is American but is in a community here. When she came to England to enter, the immigration officials asked her how long she planned on staying in the country and she replied "forever". Apparently they didn't take that answer very well. :hehe: 

[maximillion]

^^^^^

 

Re the above.

This is why it is essential to have the correct documentation and 'papers' showing the reason for your arrival and proposed long stay.

Most countries have a clause in their immigration law stating that immigration for reason of religious service etc is acceptable  but this MUST be backed up by clear documentation on headed paper from the relevant community, must mention you by full name, and state the reason for your stay.

In the initial stages, stating 'forever' may be a statement of intent, but would be a little foolhardy. A document that states your entry for reason of joining the community usually gets a neutral response and no further enquiry.

 

This is even more important when joining a community with an apostolate  since some sisters do paid work and if the authorities think you might be trying to slip in by the back door and get paid work then you will have problems.

 

in addition, in the UK at least there was a bit of a scandal about 35/40 years ago with young women being brought here ( some against their will) to enter with failing communities, and some who came and left the community after a very short time and drifted into illegal alien status.

The UK immigration have very long memories! 

Edited February 10, 2013 by maximillion

[TheLordsSouljah]

Well, at the moment I'm planning on crossing 16,000 kms across a pretty ridiculously big pond to NY... Makes you wonder exactly what entailed 'Follow Me'.... Especially when the entire known world was only a little more than central Europe... Pretty sure I was born in Aus for a reason though. Would love to be an instrument in bringing more faithful sisters back to my religious-life-is-rare stricken homeland. Ahh, Lord help us..

[HisAlone]

Wow! This thread has really turned up some useful information. When I started it I hadn't even thought about visas yet. However, I think it's funny that before I ever seriously considered a foreign community I felt the urging to renew my passport. When I looked at the paperwork I realized that it would expire in 10 days! Pretty interesting,huh!

[Chiara Francesco]

Wow! This thread has really turned up some useful information. When I started it I hadn't even thought about visas yet. However, I think it's funny that before I ever seriously considered a foreign community I felt the urging to renew my passport. When I looked at the paperwork I realized that it would expire in 10 days! Pretty interesting,huh!

 

If you have a mother or father or a grandparent who was born in Ireland, you can get an Irish Passport through descendency and with this Irish Passport you have immediate citizenship to any of the countries in the European Union.

 

I got mine a few years ago as being older I wanted to have it ready in case I did go overseas.  It is not that expensive to get.  Contact your local or nearest Irish Embassy or Consulate and they will mail you the application - but you will also need a US Passport first I believe as the Irish application asks for your passport to be sent (along with long-form birth certificates on yourself and the parent/grandparent born in Ireland - you can get the long-form Irish birth cert from a records office in Ireland, I had to for my mom as she only had her short form).  They, of course, sent back all originals documents to you that you send in.
 

Having this Irish Passport cuts out the visa expenses and craziness that can occur.  Don't know if this descendency program to get passports from other European countries works or not, I just know about Irelands.

 

**ALSO, you CAN have dual citizenship with an Irish Passport.  Not sure if this is so with ALL other countries.**  This was a concern I had at first as I didn't want to get the Irish passport and then be told to "pick one!" if I wasn't sure where I was going to enter overseas or not!

Edited February 12, 2013 by Chiara Francesco

[petitpèlerin]

There is something similar with Italian passports: I know an American girl who has an Italian passport because her father or grandfather was originally from Italy. I think she has dual citizenship. I don't know the details but anyone who's interested in living in Italy could look into it.

[Antigonos]

It's very individual. Some countries permit dual citizenship, others don't. Often, when a country doesn't, there is a category of visa called"Permanent Residency" which is pretty self-explanatory.

I not only am an American citizen by birth, but have Israeli citizenship too. My children also have dual citizenship but they are "American citizens born abroad" officially. There is a special arrangement between the Us and Israel.

So one would have to find out what each country's laws are regarding holding more than one passport.

[nikita92]

What about German??? Also...my great grandmother's mother immigrated from Ireland (I have the ship's manifest) would that still count?

[Chiara Francesco]

What about German??? Also...my great grandmother's mother immigrated from Ireland (I have the ship's manifest) would that still count?

 

Check with a Germany Embassy or Consulate here in the US or the government site in Germany, if they have an English translated site.  Each country is different.  I just know about Ireland's policy/procedure in this.

 

If you can get an Irish passport (or other country), it gives you citizenship to ANY country in the European Union to live in.

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

I voted "yes" because in the Franciscans of the Immaculate it is our obligation to go under holy obedience to any mission "ad gentes" in the world, at a moments notice. It has happened that a friar, who has been stationed at one friary for a few years, would be notified, pack his bags, and be on a plane the next day. It is a great grace for a friar or sister to die in a mission land.

 

Now for the contemplative friar and sister, it is also another martyrdom, especially since our contemplative houses are mostly in Italy.

 

Here are some serious words from St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Bishop and Doctor of the Church,

the more tender the

affection of a religious for her kindred, the greater her

impiety towards God. " Great piety towards relatives

is impiety towards God." 1 And what greater impiety

than that a nun should, for the service of her family,

give up the service of God, neglect mental prayer, the

sacraments, and expose herself to all the distractions

that necessarily arise from the care of worldly affairs.

St. Bernard exhorts his religious " to fly from such cares,

as being diabolical."" St. Ignatius of Loyola refused

to interfere in the marriage of one of his nieces, though

she was the heiress of the family. St. Francis Borgia

would not ask the Pope for a dispensation (which he

would have easily obtained) to have his son married to a

relative, although the acquisition of a large estate de-

pended upon the marriage. No man, said the Redeemer,

put ling his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the

kingdom of God. 3

 

...

 

Let us tremble, for God himself has declared that he

who has begun to serve the Lord, and looks back to the

things of the world, is unfit for paradise. When, then,

relatives seek to implicate you in worldly affairs, with-

draw at once from them. Attend to the advice of the

Redeemer to the young man who, when asked to follow

Jesus, answered, that he wished first to bury his father:

Let the dead, says Jesus, bury the dead.* Leave, then,

dear sister, worldlings (who are said to be dead) to

attend to their worldly business, and let it be your sole

care and concern to love God and to become a saint.

 

...

 

Should your relatives complain of your

unwillingness to serve them, should they even charge

you with disaffection, with ingratitude, and even call

you the enemy of your family, answer them with firm-

ness that you are dead to the world, and that it is your

duty to attend only to the service of God and of the

monastery. I conclude this chapter with the words of

St. Joseph Calasanctius: "A religious who is attached

to her relatives has not yet left the world."

 

 

 

 

Ave Maria!

 

In the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

 

fra John Paul

[inperpetuity]

^{I would not dare to argue with St. Alphonsus. He is one of my favorite saints, so if God asked it, I would say yes.}

Edited May 14, 2013 by inperpetuity

[nikita92]

Thank you John Paul!

[inperpetuity]

Actually until very recently I wouldn't have considered going to California to follow my vocation.  Then I thought hey, wait, California is on the same continent.  What a revelation!