In The Archdiocese Of Colombo, Communion In The Hand Is Not Permitted.

[Socrates]

The idea that the outliers get to make the rules can work both ways.

 

When everyone is doing something that's when you get in trouble.  There were PLENTY of abuses at Mass before the 1960's.  People didn't pay attention, either...thats why all the old ladies all pray rosaries, because without them Mass would bore you stiff.  In the scheme of thing is praying a roasary better than playing with a cell phone?  Sure...but it still dosn't change the fact that one is absorbed in a non-Mass behavior.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "outliers getting to make the rules."

 

Are you also upset when bishops ban kneeling in their diocese, and take out altar rails?

 

Why all the hate towards tradition?

[XIX]

This debate again?

 

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

[Nihil Obstat]

No debate here. Just an interesting factoid with commentary. :|

[PhuturePriest]

From a personal story in my diocese, once a boy (About fourteen) irreverently walked up to communion, looking like he would rather be on a line to the guillotine, and when it was his turn he raised up his hands. "The Body of Christ." the Priest announced. Nothing. The Priest was confused, and he again said "The Body of Christ." The boy stood there for a few moments, wondering what the heck the Priest was expecting him to do, and the old man behind him went "A good Catholic would say 'Amen'." So he did, and when the Priest placed it on his hands, he threw it in his mouth like it was a cracker and walked off. That is the kind of unbelievable, ridiculous disrespect towards the Eucharist we want to avoid by kneeling and receiving on the tongue. However, being on your knees and receiving on the tongue will not fix this in and of itself. We need proper catechesis if we want to accomplish anything.

[XIX]

No debate here. Just an interesting factoid with commentary. :|

 

I'll have to admit that I was just looking for an excuse to post the nooooooooooo button somewhere.  [/hijack]

[Gabriela]

This is a good first step in mollifying Eastern Orthodox concerns about the degenerated nature of Roman Catholic worship, but it is only a first step.  As long as videos continue to surface like the one at the Orthodox blog linked below, which show strange liturgies in the Roman Church in major cities, ecumenical outreach will be hindered and the cause of unity in Christ will be undermined.

 

Lenten Liturgy: Compare and Contrast

 

That video was horrifying.

 

I do love the Orthodox liturgy. But I wonder: WHY hasn't Orthodoxy succumbed to the same nonsense as many Catholic liturgies? Is it only because of abuse of Vatican II? Or is there something in the Orthodox Church—in the tradition, the Church hierarchy, etc.—that's made it immune to this sort of change?

[Debra Little]

If kneeling became the norm again, those with health issues that would prevent them from kneeling wouldn't be forced to kneel, so don't worry about that.

 

thank you michael.  i can just imagine how it would hold up the communion line

if my knee froze on me.  haha

[Nihil Obstat]

thank you michael.  i can just imagine how it would hold up the communion line

if my knee froze on me.  haha

I am sure many respectful young traditionalists would rush forward to offer their assistance. ;) :proud:

[fides' Jack]

The idea that the outliers get to make the rules can work both ways.

 

When everyone is doing something that's when you get in trouble.  There were PLENTY of abuses at Mass before the 1960's.  People didn't pay attention, either...thats why all the old ladies all pray rosaries, because without them Mass would bore you stiff.  In the scheme of thing is praying a roasary better than playing with a cell phone?  Sure...but it still dosn't change the fact that one is absorbed in a non-Mass behavior.

 

Give me a break...

[PhuturePriest]

The idea that the outliers get to make the rules can work both ways.

 

When everyone is doing something that's when you get in trouble.  There were PLENTY of abuses at Mass before the 1960's.  People didn't pay attention, either...thats why all the old ladies all pray rosaries, because without them Mass would bore you stiff.  In the scheme of thing is praying a roasary better than playing with a cell phone?  Sure...but it still dosn't change the fact that one is absorbed in a non-Mass behavior.

 

People prayed the Rosary because it was commonly believed that the Mass was the Priest's prayer, not the peoples', so they could choose to do something else like pray the Rosary instead. The Vatican tried to clear this misconception with the help of Vatican II. Doing it had nothing to do with being bored, people just didn't know they were a part of the prayer as well.

[Noel's angel]

Ok, so one week you can receive in the hand, and the next you must receive on the tongue whilst kneeling. What difference does it make? There will still be the same people there that were there last week, and their hearts will be the same, and what they think and believe about the Eucharist will be the same.

[Nihil Obstat]

Ok, so one week you can receive in the hand, and the next you must receive on the tongue whilst kneeling. What difference does it make? There will still be the same people there that were there last week, and their hearts will be the same, and what they think and believe about the Eucharist will be the same.

Do you believe that the external has some bearing on the internal?

Or, to save money, why do we not just build all new churches as concrete rectangles with no ornamentation?

[Basilisa Marie]

Ok, so one week you can receive in the hand, and the next you must receive on the tongue whilst kneeling. What difference does it make? There will still be the same people there that were there last week, and their hearts will be the same, and what they think and believe about the Eucharist will be the same.

 

It doesn't make an objective difference, at all.  

 

For a lot of people, receiving while kneeling and on the tongue fosters a good sense of reverence for the Eucharist.  In other people, it doesn't.  Personally speaking, receiving while standing has more meaning for me than kneeling, because standing is the most traditional position for Christians, like how we stand when we listen to the Gospel as a sign of respect. One reason while kneeling became popular was because it was how one approached a king, and in some areas lots of "i am unworthy" theology was brought into the liturgy.  That's not to say good theology isn't done while receiving while kneeling.  But it really is a preference, and what's important is the internal disposition of the communicant, and whichever position fosters the best internal disposition should be used. It's also important to make sure we aren't kneeling because we don't think the standers are holy or reverent OR that we're standing because we think the kneelers are being "holier than thou."  

[BG45]

Not going to get into the debates about Communion on the Hand/Tongue, but two comments leaped out at me.

 

since these things are indults, they are absolutely within the local bishop's authority, whether one likes it or not.  A bishop couldn't add other ways of receiving, and he couldn't forbid the universal way (kneeling and on the tongue),

 

Someone should inform Bishop Tod Brown of this. :|

 

If Ranjith became pope, I bet he would at least consider making the same instructions worldwide.

 

And then the media would howl they were betrayed by getting a non-European Pope like they whined for, but then he wasn't instituting massive liberalizations they demanded.  :hehe2:

[Ice_nine]

That video was horrifying.

 

I do love the Orthodox liturgy. But I wonder: WHY hasn't Orthodoxy succumbed to the same nonsense as many Catholic liturgies? Is it only because of abuse of Vatican II? Or is there something in the Orthodox Church—in the tradition, the Church hierarchy, etc.—that's made it immune to this sort of change?

 

I wonder the same thing.

[Nihil Obstat]

Not going to get into the debates about Communion on the Hand/Tongue, but two comments leaped out at me.

 

 

Someone should inform Bishop Tod Brown of this. :|

 

 

And then the media would howl they were betrayed by getting a non-European Pope like they whined for, but then he wasn't instituting massive liberalizations they demanded.  :hehe2:

Yes, someone absolutely should.

 

Lol, would it not be the best thing ever? :proud:

[BG45]

Yes, someone absolutely should.

 

Lol, would it not be the best thing ever? :proud:

 

I would laugh.  So very much.  :)

[gaudium et spes]

That video was horrifying.

 

I do love the Orthodox liturgy. But I wonder: WHY hasn't Orthodoxy succumbed to the same nonsense as many Catholic liturgies? Is it only because of abuse of Vatican II? Or is there something in the Orthodox Church—in the tradition, the Church hierarchy, etc.—that's made it immune to this sort of change?

Apotheoun, any ideas?

[Nihil Obstat]

Apotheoun, any ideas?

I might speculate here. We in the Roman Church have had popes in the past who encouraged, either implicitly or explicitly, certain experimentations in the Mass. For instance, quite a bit of experimentation was encouraged - officially mind you - during the time in which the Pauline Missal was being created. Such top-down encouragement certainly affected clergy right down to the parish level. It created a culture in which that experimentation was simply par for the course.

On the other hand, the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics, with a much higher degree of autonomy, have not experienced the same kind of encouragement towards experimentation. The patriarchs, metropolitans, etc., simply do not do things that way, and because of that the lower clergy are led in a more liturgically strict direction.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[Apotheoun]

Apotheoun, any ideas?

I gave a partial answer to this question in another thread recently when I said:

". . . the Western Church seems to have lost the proper sense of Tradition. Tradition is living, not because it is constantly changing, the Church Fathers would never have accepted such an idea, but because it (i.e., Tradition) is an extension of the incarnation vivified by the life-creating Spirit of God."

 

I would add to this by saying that in many ways the concept of the "magisterium" has replaced Tradition in the Western Church, and that is what has made it possible for the bishops (or the pope) to simply issue directives that alter or suppress time immemorial liturgical practices. The end result of all of this is that the lay faithful in the West see everything as being open to change, and of course that approach is simply foreign to Eastern Orthodoxy. Tradition - for Orthodox Christians - is received by each new generation, and not created by it.