Basilisa Marie Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 Just to make it clear, I don't disagree too substantially with Basilia. I simply think she's making more out of that video than is there. However, I really don't know the history of all this that well. If Voris is fudging history (which I suspect he is) then I have less respect for him than before. I've stated in pretty much every Voris debate that I don't like his videos. Basilia, I'm sorry if it seemed like we ganged up on you unfairly, I can see how you'd feel that way based on how this thread has unfolded. That personally wasn't my intention, and I'm fairly certain it wasn't Nihil's or KoC's. Edit: I think the above post is a fair criticism, FWIW. Eh, it's all good. I hold no grudges against y'all. I just get super frustrated with people who publicly set themselves up to be "good Catholics" and an "authority" on "truth" and then turn into spin doctors for their own soapbox. I think those people who call themselves ministers on the internet have a serious obligation to defend the Church's teachings in their whole truth, not just the parts that feel good to them. I'd feel differently if Voris just had a speaking tour or something, because then his audience is limited. But on the internet, the world is your audience, and Catholics have a hard enough time getting taken seriously without people like him twisting Church teaching. I feel the same way about liberal politicians that parade their Catholicism for votes but don't reflect it in their positions...so I hope no one thinks I'm trying to pick on trads or anything. Obviously I'm not actually a misandrist, and I do think you guys are cool and stuff. :) I get frustrated when it seems like I'm not getting anywhere in stating my position, and then someone else comes along and says basically the same thing and is lauded for it. It's super common for lady experiences to get written off as silly feelings that don't matter and for dude experiences to be considered reasonable. So what if I talk more about feelings than cold logic? That doesn't make the way I experience the videos any less valid than someone else's. I know that certainly wasn't your intention, but it didn't stop things from looking like that. Who knows, this might not have happened if we had been talking face to face instead of online.
r2Dtoo Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 See, wild speculation. But will probably be taken more seriously than teh womans and heretics. It was Voris' own words, and what's so wild speculation about closet atheists making money off of Christians? Scientists turn Creationist all the time in their old age because the pay is good. Voris is just following their example.
Evangetholic Posted February 27, 2013 Posted February 27, 2013 I'm a smelly pirate hooker. You made me spit my tea out.
Apotheoun Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 If you don't like Voris' videos don't click the play button when you see one posted here. I think some people really overreact to what Voris says. Just to make it clear, I don't disagree too substantially with Basilia. I simply think she's making more out of that video than is there. . . . I agree. I have watched the video and read the transcription provided earlier in the thread, and I see no reason to be offended.
the171 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Posted February 28, 2013 I am Legend. No, you're just a Canadian. No one cares about Canadians.
EmilyAnn Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 If you don't like Voris' videos don't click the play button when you see one posted here. I think some people really overreact to what Voris says. I agree. I have watched the video and read the transcription provided earlier in the thread, and I see no reason to be offended. You don't see it. Fine. But a lot of people evidently do, and it isn't very nice of you to just dismiss and invalidate their feelings just because you don't feel the same way.
Apotheoun Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 You don't see it. Fine. But a lot of people evidently do, and it isn't very nice of you to just dismiss and invalidate their feelings just because you don't feel the same way. The offense lies in the person experiencing it, because there is nothing theological or historical in the video that should cause offense. Does Voris have an aggressive style? Yeah, he does. But the content of the video contains nothing to be offended over.
EmilyAnn Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 The offense lies in the person experiencing it, because there is nothing theological or historical in the video that should cause offense. Does Voris have an aggressive style? Yeah, he does. But the content of the video contains nothing to be offended over. In your opinion. But others are clearly offended by it. You have no right to tell other people how they should or should not feel.
Evangetholic Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 No one needs anyone else's permission to be offended.
Apotheoun Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 The simple answer for those who do not like Voris is for them to avoid watching his videos. No one can be forced to press the play button. No one needs anyone else's permission to be offended. Being offended like being angry is inherent to the person experiencing the emotion. Sometimes there is cause for both of those things, but sometimes (like in the case of the video at the beginning of this thread) there is not. It is not like Voris can excommunicate anyone. Postscript: I should point out that - as an Eastern Christian - I am not really that interested in Voris' videos.
Evangetholic Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 The simple answer for those who do not like Voris is for them to avoid watching his videos. No one can be forced to press the play button. Being offended like being angry is inherent to the person experiencing the emotion. Sometimes there is cause for both of those things, but sometimes (like in the case of the video at the beginning of this thread) there is not. The fact that you do not see cause does not actually make it absent. Voris is harsh, aggressive, and unpleasant to me and to some others here. The fact that you do not find him to be these things or see him as using weasel words in attempt to condemn that which the Church (in Her Wisdom) allows does not suggest that the rest of us are emotion driven fantasists. I think his way of delivering Church Teaching is problematic at times and that at others he attempts to make his personal dispositions and opinions synonymous with those of the Church.
Apotheoun Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) I added my postscript in order to emphasize the fact that I have no real interest in Voris or what he has to say on theological matters, and that I posted in this thread only because I noticed that some people appear to be going out of their way to be offended by his videos. There is a lot of nitpicking going on, and much of the criticism directed at this particular video was founded upon the imaginations of those who do not like Voris. The Roman Church really does come off as massively divided when people attack videos that are supposedly advocating a Latin traditionalist point of view, and ironically it is the "Vatican II" Catholics who tend to come of as intolerant in these exchanges. The fact that you do not see cause does not actually make it absent. Voris is harsh, aggressive, and unpleasant to me and to some others here. The fact that you do not find him to be these things or see him as using weasel words in attempt to condemn that which the Church (in Her Wisdom) allows does not suggest that the rest of us are emotion driven fantasists. I think his way of delivering Church Teaching is problematic at times and that at others he attempts to make his personal dispositions and opinions synonymous with those of the Church. Don't watch his videos if you don't like his style. I don't normally watch his videos. Edited February 28, 2013 by Apotheoun
Evangetholic Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 Is he a Traditionalist? I'm a Traditionalist I guess(have not read one sensible word from Vat II). If he is a Traditionalist then he is a Traditionalist who is also a pompous blowhard.
Nihil Obstat Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Postscript: I should point out that - as an Eastern Christian - I am not really that interested in Voris' videos. As a Latin Christian, I am not that interested either. :hehe: I have, over time, found more valuable people to listen to on any subject about which Mr. Voris tends to speak. Edited February 28, 2013 by Nihil Obstat
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