Catholicism

[KnightofChrist]

Touche Madame

 

She is rather level headed, and in this case, correct. Any kind of question about whether or not we can presume a individual is in hell must be answered in the negative. The Church does not have the keys to hell like she has for heaven. She cannot tell which individuals are in hell. But if your yes, was more to the point that dying in a state of mortal sin, outside the state of grace, outside the ark of salvation the Church, then yes dying in such a state can lead to the damnation of a soul. But whether or not an individual was or was not in that state at the moment of death is known only to God and we cannot presume.

[KnightofChrist]

Untrue. You've seen videos and pictures a plenty. However, I've never seen a trace of you. Perhaps it is you who truly does not exist?

 

Photoshop'ed the lot of them.

[Evangetholic]

She is rather level headed, and in this case, correct. Any kind of question about whether or not we can presume a individual is in hell must be answered in the negative. The Church does not have the keys to hell like she has for heaven. She cannot tell which individuals are in hell. But if your yes, was more to the point that dying in a state of mortal sin, outside the state of grace, outside the ark of salvation the Church, then yes dying in such a state can lead to the damnation of a soul. But whether or not an individual was or was not in that state at the moment of death is known only to God and we cannot presume.

 

I assumed OP wasn't using "presume" with precision. But yes--I do not mean to eagerly put people in Hell, I just mean to not presume that everyone (or even most/many) outside of the Church is "covered" by invincible ignorance and the like. (And I've read enough of your posts to know you'll agree.)

[homeschoolmom]

Untrue. You've seen videos and pictures a plenty. However, I've never seen a trace of you. Perhaps it is you who truly does not exist?

How do I know that those pixels are you? :|

 

And I never claimed that I exist.

[reyb]

Why you believe they existed?

 

Don’t you really know why you need to see him first?

 

The way you are laying your argument is something like this: Why  I believe that these people really exist since I do not see them? So, your argument is, why then do I need to see by my own eyes this Jesus?

 

Don’t you really know why you need to be very sure about this?

 

Okay. Suppose, I believe that Napoleon and Washington existed long time ago and then, I found out that I was deceived (by you for example) since they do not really exist. My question is this: What disaster it will bring to my soul? 

Edited March 11, 2013 by reyb

[reyb]

Do you believe George Washington or Napoleon existed?

 

 

I've never seen my grandfather. I suppose that makes him nonexistent as well.

 

I will return your compliment.

 

Do you think you can see Napoleon and Washington in the same way they (their contemporaries and friends) saw, talked, heard and touched them (Napoleon and Washington)?. To make it short, do you think you can see Napoleon or Washington that ‘same way’ too?

 

Of course, not. 

 

Now, do you think you can see your Jesus that same way too? (died and resurrected in that cross and then go to heaven).

 

Now, Why then it is written, Acts 1:10-11

 

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

 

Can you please explain this to me?

Edited March 12, 2013 by reyb

[PhuturePriest]

I will return your compliment.

 

Do you think you can see Napoleon and Washington in the same way they (their contemporaries and friends) saw, talked, heard and touched them (Napoleon and Washington)?. To make it short, do you think you can see Napoleon or Washington that ‘same way’ too?

 

Of course, not. 

 

Now, do you think you can see your Jesus that same way too? (died and resurrected in that cross and then go to heaven).

 

Now, Why then it is written, Acts 1:10-11

 

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

 

Can you please explain this to me?

 

I don't understand what the question is.

[reyb]

I don't understand what the question is.

Do you think you will see Jesus in that same they saw him? Edited March 12, 2013 by reyb

[PhuturePriest]

Do you think you will see Jesus in that same they saw him?

 

Why would I see him differently? Are you implying he might conceal a part of himself from me? I don't see what is tripping you up here.

[reyb]

Why would I see him differently? Are you implying he might conceal a part of himself from me? I don't see what is tripping you up here.

 

Let me put it this way. I started my argument by saying we will never see Washington anymore or in that same way their friends and contemporaries saw him. Of course, the reason is obvious because of time. The best anyone can claim is seeing him only through pictures or imagination. But ‘seeing thru imagination’ is not the same as ‘seeing in reality’ where his friends saw, touched and talked to him.

 

Now, there is a claim that ‘Jesus came in this world 2000 years ago and many people saw him’. Of course, Jesus friends and contemporaries must have seen him in reality. Meaning, they saw, touched, talked and heard him. My question is this:  Do you think you will see Jesus in that same way. Having the same body, saying the same words, died in the same way he died on the cross, gone into heaven in the same way he go. Do you think you will him that way?

Edited March 12, 2013 by reyb

[PhuturePriest]

Let me put it this way. I started my argument by saying we will never see Washington anymore or in that same way their friends and contemporaries saw him. Of course, the reason is obvious because of time. The best anyone can claim is seeing him only through pictures or imagination. But ‘seeing thru imagination’ is not the same as ‘seeing in reality’ where his friends saw, touched and talked to him.

 

Now, there is a claim that ‘Jesus came in this world 2000 years ago and many people saw him’. Of course, Jesus friends and contemporaries must have seen him in reality. Meaning, they saw, touched, talked and heard him. My question is this:  Do you think you will see Jesus in that same way. Having the same body, saying the same words, died in the same way he died on the cross, gone into heaven in the same way he go. Do you think you will him that way?

 

Would I have the same experiences? No. Jesus died once. He wouldn't relive his life. That would be weird and completely unbiblical. We will see him and interact with him the same way I would interact with you if I met you, though, if that answers your question.

[the171]

*angst*

[Tally Marx]

Do you think you will see Jesus in that same they saw him?

I am afraid I do not understand your argument.

Correct me if I am wrong:

You are saying that since no one alive today has personally met and shaken hands with the guy called Jesus the Galilean in many historical works, we should not believe that this person ever existed at any point in time. 

[Evangetholic]

I have been converted. I agree with Reyb. I've made up met the one of whom he speaks. His name is Josh. He can't give you Eternal Life, but he makes a mean chicken sammich.

[reyb]

That is precisely my point. So if you are one of these Galileans and then someone told all of you....'Men of Galilee,why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

 

So, what do you think the writer of Acts trying to tell you?

[reyb]

Would I have the same experiences? No. Jesus died once. He wouldn't relive his life. That would be weird and completely unbiblical. We will see him and interact with him the same way I would interact with you if I met you, though, if that answers your question.

 

 

That is precisely my point. So if you are one of these Galileans and then someone told  you....'Men of Galilee,why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

 

So, what do you think the writer of Acts trying to tell you?

Edited March 12, 2013 by reyb

[reyb]

To Tally, FuturePriest, Evang and others,

 

I know something is really and truly irregular but it is not my idea. It is your Fathers' -  (with Capital F, scholars know the difference between father and Father) -  idea.

 

In that verse, it is written, ‘This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’

 

But how can you say Jesus ‘go into heaven’ if he did not come down first?

 

Now, in what way Jesus came in this world? According to your Fathers , he was born thru a virgin girl named Mary….ah…..okay I will copy and paste my previous post.

 

 

That he was born, from a virgin girl named Mary, who is in turn betrothed to Joseph during the days of Herod, in Nazareth which is now the largest city in Israel. He grew there with his carpenter-father and a beautiful mother who is forever virgin (I do not know how it become possible even after giving birth to Jesus), learned to converse or discuss about God at a very young age, and at the age of 33 he was crucified and died for a crime he did not commit after he taught to everyone about the coming of the kingdom of God for three years (he started to teach at the age of 30).

 

Then, after 3 days He come back to life and then, after 40 days  â€˜go into heaven’. Thus, I am asking, do you think you will see this same Jesus in that same way his contemporaries and friends saw him ‘go into heaven’? If not.

 

How can you explain its message -- 'This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’

Edited March 12, 2013 by reyb

[Papist]

Don’t you really know why you need to see him first?

 

The way you are laying your argument is something like this: Why  I believe that these people really exist since I do not see them? So, your argument is, why then do I need to see by my own eyes this Jesus?

 

Don’t you really know why you need to be very sure about this?

 

Okay. Suppose, I believe that Napoleon and Washington existed long time ago and then, I found out that I was deceived (by you for example) since they do not really exist. My question is this: What disaster it will bring to my soul? 

 

Please answer my question.

[reyb]

Please answer my question.

 

 

My common sense tells me, they truly exist although I do not see them (Washington or Napoleon) with my own eyes.  With the same common sense I used in questioning your belief about this Jesus. 

[Papist]

My common sense tells me, they truly exist although I do not see them (Washington or Napoleon) with my own eyes.  With the same common sense I used in questioning your belief about this Jesus. 

 

Your common sense is a contradiction. 

 

i.e. It is what you want it to be, it is not following truth

Edited March 12, 2013 by Papist