"protestant Proofing Our Kids"?

[megamattman1]

This is in response to the thread in quotations. I made this thread so that it could be read and prayed upon without other posts to interfere for those who might need it. Also, it is somewhat of a different issue in itself so it can have it's own thread I guess.

It seems to me that you (I will use the word you in a gereral sense to anyone who is pondering what he is pondering) are trying to avoid the inevitable. That is, that your children will hear things that are not Catholic. If the Catholic Church is the Truth, then it should be able to stand its own ground irregardless of Protestant externalities. If you don't think the Church is as clear as you'd like, maybe you should reexamine your faith. Ask yourself why exactly you believe in the Church. If you like your faith, acknowledge what your faith is actually based on in a historical sense (please don't start saying it's based on Jesus the Truth etc unless you want to prove it or at least show it's probable historically) and let your child do as he may. Show him your apologetics, of course, but once he sees them, let him decide if your defense is just a defense or actually provable/probable.

You can then start things like it's the Truth if you want. But if he doesn't buy into your form of Truth, then let him be. Please don't insist and please don't start telling him how his faith is based on emotions, afterall, if you can't really prove/probable your faith, saying "it's the Truth" is itself completely emotional.*

Besides, if the kid is going to sin when he finds an alternative path but is good for now (that is if he does lead a good life on the outside because he knows no otherway) , then he probably is not in good condition at least at heart to begin with anyway.

Finally, by the very fact that you are trying to shelter your child would make him question your motives, and combined with the fact that it may not be as clear as you would like, (*and any other emotional baggage you may try to give him)he is all the more likely to leave anyway.

Edited May 26, 2004 by megamattman1

[Anna]

Um...Are you a parent?

I find that usually the best parents are people who have no children. They would do it perfectly, if they had any.

[i]Shelter[/i] our children?

Are you kidding?

This is 2004. They've seen much! It's all out there, and it's all "ok."

What we're talking about is equipping our children to recognize Christ's Truths, so that they do not fall into error.

We all fall into sin, that is unavoidable. However, we don't have to embrace heresy and error. That is totally avoidable, with proper spiritual formation and education.

Pax Christi. <><

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Anna' date='May 26 2004, 06:13 PM'] Um...Are you a parent?

I find that usually the best parents are people who have no children. They would do it perfectly, if they had any.

[i]Shelter[/i] our children?

Are you kidding?

This is 2004. They've seen much! It's all out there, and it's all "ok."

What we're talking about is equipping our children to recognize Christ's Truths, so that they do not fall into error.

We all fall into sin, that is unavoidable. However, we don't have to embrace heresy and error. That is totally avoidable, with proper spiritual formation and education.

Pax Christi. <>< [/quote]
Anna, you are so da bomb.

[Quietfire]

[quote]We all fall into sin, that is unavoidable. However, we don't have to embrace heresy and error. That is totally avoidable, with proper spiritual formation and education.[/quote]

Amen Anna
Amen Sojourner.(Anna is da bom)



Peace

Edited May 26, 2004 by Quietfire

[Anna]

[megamattman1]

[quote]I find that usually the best parents are people who have no children. They would do it perfectly, if they had any.[/quote]
So do you agree with me? If you're just being sarcastic, then maybe you could clarify. I don't see how you've responded to my post.

[quote]This is 2004. They've seen much! It's all out there, and it's all "ok."[/quote]
Besides, if the kid is going to sin when he finds an alternative path but is good for now (that is if he does lead a good life on the outside because he knows no otherway) , then he probably is not in good condition at least at heart to begin with anyway.

[quote]What we're talking about is equipping our children to recognize Christ's Truths, so that they do not fall into error. We all fall into sin, that is unavoidable. However, we don't have to embrace heresy and error. That is totally avoidable, with proper spiritual formation and education.[/quote]
If the Catholic Church is the Truth, then it should be able to stand its own ground irregardless of Protestant externalities. Show him your apologetics, of course, but once he sees them, let him decide if your defense is just a defense or actually provable/probable.

You can then start things like it's the Truth if you want. But if he doesn't buy into your form of Truth, then let him be. Please don't insist and please don't start telling him how his faith is based on emotions, afterall, if you can't really prove/probable your faith, saying "it's the Truth" is itself completely emotional.*

[Dusty Fro]

I agree with you, megamatt.

[MParedon]

I'd like to share my experiance if I could.

I wasn't Protestant-proofed. Before anyone get's angry I would like to explain.

I was not catechized properly, and there was a very poor formation in my faith. I was absolutely ripe for the picking for evangelical Protestants that target Catholics. I'm NOT saying that all Protestants target Catholics, but from my experiance one is too many for me. When I had my conversion experience about 9 months ago I got bitter. I got bitter at the Church for not equipping me correctly. I was less bitter with my parent's b/c they sorta suffered from the Mexicans in the U.S. syndrome (some of you know what I'm talking about--they want the best for their kids and are willing to let their kids to be taught the 'American way'...well anyway that's a whole nother thesis paper )

I lived in the Bible Belt of the South and it would've been so easy for me to be swayed to a Fundamentalist Southern Baptist Church [the ones that say you are not saved if you don't go to their particular church...it doesn't matter if your in the same denom, they don't care. Those churches are very common.]

There is nothing wrong with learning about other faiths. I'm not positive, but the Catholic Church teaches that also....just as long as you are properly formed in the Catholic faith.

Anyway, I think Protestants know what I'm talking about. They would want to Mormon or Jehovah Witness-proof their kids and also Atheist-proof our kids.


But I really think that the problem with the title of the other post is the way that Catholics and Protestants view it. When I first saw it, immediatly I thought it was a contructive critisizm on how the Church and parents should teach our kids. When a protestant sees it (I'm making an assumption, so I could be wrong) they see Catholics not wanting their children to associate with Protestants or even know what Protestants believe.

Anyway...I hope my post doesn't add fuel to the flames, and if it does, PLEASE disregard my post b/c it was meant in the best of ways and if it's not taken that way I would just feel awful. I always take the view that my opinions aren't worth anything if they don't help.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='megamattman1' date='May 26 2004, 07:36 PM'] It seems to me that you (I will use the word you in a gereral sense to anyone who is pondering what he is pondering) are trying to avoid the inevitable. That is, that your children will hear things that are not Catholic.
[/quote]
Hi megamattman1,

See, I think you're missing the point of that thread. We [b]know[/b] that it's nearly inevitable that our children will hear things that aren't Catholic. It's actually [b]because[/b] it's inevitable that the original thread was started. The whole purpose of the thread was to discuss ways in which our children can answer Protestant questions and refute non-Catholic objections against the Catholic Church.

[quote]If the Catholic Church is the Truth, then it should be able to stand its own ground irregardless of Protestant externalities. If you don't think the Church is as clear as you'd like, maybe you should reexamine your faith. [/quote]

I believe that the Catholic Church does indeed stand on its own; however, what good would that do for someone who knew next to nothing about what Catholicism teaches and why? Imagine this: You don't want your daughter to have premarital sex, but yet, you don't tell her that premarital sex is bad. You also don't tell her why it's bad. Obviously, the odds that she'll have premarital sex will increase significantly because of this. Likewise, if Catholic parents don't teach their kids the faith, the odds that their children could be lead astray would increase significantly. No Catholic wants that, and that's why Catholic parents need to teach their children about the Catholic Church. Yes, the arguments for the Church stand on their own, but people need to know what the Church teaches and why to make a case for it. I mean, honestly, that's common sense! How could anyone do apologetics for something they know nothing about? People won't know that the Catholic Church is the truth unless they're taught about it, and people could more likely take some other religion (e.g., Protestantism) for truth if they're not taught about Catholicism, its truth, and how to defend it. It's the job of Catholic parents to teach their children this.

[quote]Ask yourself why exactly you believe in the Church. If you like your faith, acknowledge what your faith is actually based on in a historical sense (please don't start saying it's based on Jesus the Truth etc unless you want to prove it or at least show it's probable historically) and let your child do as he may.
[/quote]

My belief in the Catholic Church is based on the Bible, Tradition, philosophy, and history. If you want to discuss these things, you should start a new thread.

[quote]Show him your apologetics, of course, but once he sees them, let him decide if your defense is just a defense or actually provable/probable.
[/quote]

Your suggestion is sort of a moot point. No one can [i]force[/i] their children to believe anything, as all people have free will. But if they're taught about the Catholic faith, the odds are that they'll accept it. If they don't, at least their parents can say that they did everything they could to prevent them from leaving the Church. At that point, it'd be out of the parents' hands. But, if their children are are under 18, parents have [b]every right[/b] to make their children attend Mass with them. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with parents forcing their children to go to school. Believe it or not, we Catholics believe that going to Mass and keeping the faith is more important than that. That being said, making children go to Mass is done with the same mentality as those who force their children to go to school. (Yes, Catholic parents also force their children to attend school. )

[quote]You can then start things like it's the Truth if you want. But if he doesn't buy into your form of Truth, then let him be. [/quote]

How many forms of truth do you think there are? I believe that there is objective truth -- that is, I reject moral relativity and subjectivity when it comes to discerning truth regarding religion and morality. If you insist that there is no one truth, and that all truth is relative, then I will simply say that stating that is a truth in and of itself. If you insist upon that absolutely, you'll be sawing off the very branch you sit on. If you deny that, you'll hold a logically inconsistent view.

[quote]Please don't insist and please don't start telling him how his faith is based on emotions, afterall, if you can't really prove/probable your faith, saying "it's the Truth" is itself completely emotional.*
[/quote]

I've never said anything like that. I believe that people must have evidence to back up their faith, and I believe I do.

[quote]Finally, by the very fact that you are trying to shelter your child would make him question your motives, and combined with the fact that it may not be as clear as you would like, (*and any other emotional baggage you may try to give him)he is all the more likely to leave anyway.[/quote]

I mean no offense, but that is a rather presumptuous statement. How on earth would you know what the children of Catholic parents would think and feel? There are certain things that parents can and should shelter their kids from. Would you let your kids watch porn? What would you say if someone criticized you for sheltering your children from porn? Parents simply should preserve the innocence of their children, and they should equip them with the knowledge and virtue they need to confront evil and adversity when the time comes for them to do so.

And how would you know that these children would be more likely to leave the Chuch? If you make a statement like that, I'd expect that you'd have some statistics to back it up, yet I see none.

God bless,

Jennifer

[jasJis]

Great post BeenaBoppa! I was going to write the same things but you saved me alot of effort. In the thread that brought this up, many of the responses were about better teaching, not '[i]sheltering[i/]'. It's about making the foundations strong.

Protestant proofing is also about teaching our kids patience and loyalty. Protestants leave churches and denominations and go start another church or denom. Catholics often do that. In my opinion, Protestant proofing is also teaching our kids to stay and correct the problems in their Church. A Christian should only change denominations when they GROW in Faith, not to just seek emotional comfort.

[Anna]

megamattman1, You seem to be misjudging our motives and have a misperception of how we rear our children.

For nine years, I homeschooled six of my school-age children. Most of the fellow homeschoolers with whom we associated were fundamentalist Christians. There were few Catholic homeschoolers at the time. Being exposed to sooooooo many fundies provided me with lots of "teachable moments" for my kids ~ Right, [i]Ice Princess[/i]?
If I sought to shelter them from anything, I suppose it might have been the liberal agenda or lukewarmness of some who call themselves "Catholic."
Ultimately, though, I did enroll the remaining children in Catholic schools.
When the first of my Catholic-schooled children graduated from junior high and had to travel to the nearest city to attend Catholic high school, only two of his classmates made that same choice. One was my son's best friend, a Mormon, and the other, a Baptist.
Never once have my kids expressed a desire to seek "Truth" outside the Catholic Church.
Because as wacky, weird, wild, and dumb blonde as I might be, my kids know one thing for certain: Mamma is mmmaaaaaaadddddddddd Catholic!!!
It would kill me if they resorted to a heretical sect.
And who wants to kill his Mamma?




No, seriously.
Hopefully, they all remain Catholic because they've learned intellectually that THIS is THE Church founded by Christ, and Christ doesn't make mistakes.
Hopefully, they have a heart for Christ, and a love for the Eucharist and for Mary, Most Holy.
With those two pillars, as St. John Bosco points out, the Church (and her faithful) can withstand all assailants.

Yes, our Church is strong enough to withstand errors and heresies, and all sorts of attacks, even those projected from the gates of hell.

But the concern wasn't whether or not our Church can withstand them, it was whether our [i]children[/i] can, and how to equip them.

My simple answer: keep them wrapped in Mary's mantle. Consecrate them to the Blessed Virgin.
Nourish them frequently on the Eucharist. Teach them to appreciate sacramentals.
Be a witness for the Truth.
Pray, pray, pray.

Pax Christi. <><

[megamattman1]

Well it coulda been a misinterpretation who knows. I read a few posts out of the original thread and what I took away from a quick run down of a few threads was the intent to shelter. But if it's just the intent to educate in a good way, that's great.

I thought I made it clear in my first post here that I was only against "sheltering" your kids.. if that's not what you meant like JasJis and the other person was saying, great. If it is what you mean, well, by golly, more power to ya. haha

Edited May 31, 2004 by megamattman1

[cmotherofpirl]

After I stopped homeschooling, my children had to go to public school. I wish to God that I had money to shelter them from all the things they were exposed to there.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote]Most of the fellow homeschoolers with whom we associated were fundamentalist Christians. There were few Catholic homeschoolers at the time. Being exposed to sooooooo many fundies provided me with lots of "teachable moments" for my kids ~ Right, Ice Princess?  [/quote]

Right.

[quote]And who wants to kill his Mamma?[/quote]

Not me.

[Anna]

Thank heavens...

Now what about the others...?