Does Anyone Know ...........

[Totally Franciscan]

An incident that happened about twenty years ago popped into my head last night as I was trying to sleep, and my mind was going round and round trying to figure this out.  So I thought I would ask you, my Carmelite experts on Phatmass.  Does anyone know of a Discalced Carmelite community in California that is not cloistered?  Twenty years ago I was at the Mission of Santa Inez for Palm Sunday Mass.  Right before Mass started, four nuns in traditional Discalced Carmelite habit entered the mission church.  One was in a wheel chair.  The church was crowded, and I was shocked that no one got up and offered these nuns their seat.  Their habits were exquisitely tailored, but I can't remember if they were French or Spanish habits.  The only two monasteries of Discalced Carmelites near there are Carmel to the North and Alhambra to the South, way too far for these nuns to travel.  This scenario has been driving me nuts.  Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

[beatitude]

Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Los Angeles. :) They're Discalced (OCD), but not cloistered - they have a ministry in healthcare. Were these the sisters?

[Totally Franciscan]

Thanks, Beatitude, but no.  They wore the traditional habit of St. Teresa and St. Therese.

[beatitude]

The only other Carmelites I know of who are non-cloistered are the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus (and their veil is not like St Teresa's), the Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm (OCarm), the Carmelite Sisters of St Therese, and the Corpus Christi Carmelites (OCarm). I am not sure if any of these have a presence in California. It will probably say on their sites.

 

Very occasionally cloistered nuns have to travel for one reason or another. It could be that you saw two sisters who were on their way between monasteries and needed to stop for Mass.

[AnneLine]

I do know the answer on this one... '20 years ago' is the key.

 

The Carmel in Long Beach was forced to move a little over 20 years ago because the neighborhood had become too violent.

They moved to Solvang, which is near Mission Santa Inez... and I know that for a while when the community relocated there they attended that mission as they didn't have a chaplain.   However, there were some problems with the construction of the building and the title (perhaps with other things?) -- and the relocation of the foundation was not successful.  My belief is that the community was supressed, and most of the sisters transferred to other monasteries.

 

If you do a search for 'Carmelite Nuns' 'Long Beach' and 'Divine Mercy' you will find a website that has a full explanation of what happened.  The website belongs to some kind of a group or community that has that appears to have some kind of Carmelite-based spirituality, but I don't know much more than that.  It sounds as if it may have sprung up out of the remains of the Carmel, but I'm not sure.

 

I can't even tell for sure which diocese they would be in, but I would think they would be part of the Los Angeles Archdiocese.  Before getting involved with them, anyone who is interested should figure out which diocese they would belong to and check with the diocese to see what their status is.  I do NOT beleive they are connected with the Discalced Carmelite Order at this time, but I could be wrong.   It is not clear to me from their website if this is a community that is currently approved by the Bishop/Church, so I don't want to link to that website. but as noted above, you can find it with a google search.

 

And.... Mission Santa Inez is near them, and they may be able to tell you what their status is, or with whom you should check.  They ARE part of a community that has no problems - the Capuchin Franciscans.

 

http://www.missionsantaines.org/home.html

 

Hope this helps....

[nikita92]

AnneLine- you are AWESOME!!;)

[Totally Franciscan]

I agree with Nikita!  AnneLine you are awesome!  Tons of info here.  I will be doing research on this, but this looks like it has answered my gnawing question of why Discalced Carmelite Nuns were at the Mission.

[AnneLine]

Thanks.  :)  I'm not sure if I am awesome, or if I am just old!   I had a friend who was discerning with the community at the time all this blew up.  :)   She told me about how odd it was to go to the Mission with them.

 

And I am pretty sure that the community was formally suppressed (which doesn't imply a problem, just that there aren't enough sisters and/or that the situation has become such that the community  just can't stay in existance any longer.   It happens a lot if two communities choose to join/amalgamate for example,  Cristo Rey in San Francisco and the Berkeley Christ the Exiled King community did this a few years ago, and the one in Berkeley was suppressed, I believe.  But they were fairly similar in how the viewed the Carmelite life, and it made sense - one very strong community rather than two marginal ones.   Happens a lot, actually.....

 

So, glad I could help!

 

And as far as the new thing -- well, we see that a lot on Phatmass VS don't we --- some are from God, some not so much... sometimes we just need to carefully discern what God is doing.....  I really don't know but I'd be sure what I was getting into if I was curious about what they are doing....

 

 

[Totally Franciscan]

Where else but on Phatmass would I find someone that actually had a friend discern with this Discalced Carmelite community when this all blew up??????  You might get a chuckle out of this, but I was thinking that perhaps these nuns might be a figment of imagination, as I just could not understand why they would be there.  For twenty years I have wondered about them, and now I can let the thing rest.  No, I am not considering entering this community.  I read the entire website, and it seems they have a community of religious and lay people (of all faiths!).  Very sad situation with the building of the monastery.  Seems to me I read where the Whitesville, Ky Passionists had a similar situation with the building of their new chapel; however, all has been rectified there.  Now, in Solvang, someone else owns the property, and the monastery sits unfinished.  Very sad all around.  If I am not mistaken, there is a Diocese of Santa Barbara, where this community is now located, but don't know for sure.  Thanks again, AnneLine!

[Chiquitunga]

There's a video on youtube about them I actually found like 4 days ago, no kidding! Search "Seeds of Mercy invitation"  They were originally in the Archdiocese of LA as a Carmel. It says on that site the remaining Sisters "petitioned Rome in their desire to ultimately found a house of Divine Mercy when God should clear the way." Who knows what happened with this though.

 

Yes, thank you AnneLine for all that info! Amazing that you would remember that from 20 years ago! 

Edited May 9, 2013 by Chiquitunga

[Totally Franciscan]

Thanks, Chiquitunga, for passing this on to us.  It pretty much sums up the entire story of these nuns.  Isn't the timing of you finding this video amazing! 

[Guest Allie]

I don't understand how this could happen.  Why didn't the Bishop or the Order help them with the legal stuff?  Doesn't Canon Law come into this somehow?  It makes me sad.

[AnneLine]

Allie,

 

I know what you mean, but get the feeling (and this is just a feeling...) there might be more to this.  We couldn't figure it out 20 years ago... and I am not going to try now.  Sometimes... stuff just happens.

 

And sometimes what looks odd to us could just be the Holy Spirit doing something new.  I remember when 4 sisters left the Nashville domincans to 'do something different' it seemed kinda odd to me.   Now they are the DSMME.  So you never know.  This sounds kindof odd, but just because it is ecumenical doesn't mean it isn't of God.  And even St. Teresa had to abandon at least one potential foundation.

 

Soooo... I'll trust the Holy Spirit knows what He's doing, even if he doesn't always trust me with the details!

[Chiquitunga]

Here they are in the bronze book (Carmel in the United States 1790 - 1990 available for $5 here :j) I didn't realize they had been a pretty long time established Carmel in Long Beach. AnneLine that's also amazing you remember from your friend exactly where they went to Mass temporarily at that Mission where TF was!! :detective:

 

 

 

 

 

[AnneLine]

Chiti, It would be very hard NOT to remember it... especially as it was the year my mom died....  

 

And...Solvang (where Misison Santa Ynes is) is a VERY unusual place!   And it's a very unusual name (at least for California!)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvang,_California

 

It's kind of a miniature Danish village, and there is just not much else there!!!!  The Pea Soup Anderson factory was there at that point....  and the mission... and the Carmelites!

 

the thought of what it would be like for the Parish when a bunch of Carmelite Nuns showed up for mass intrigued me! 

 

And, of course, I had been following my friend's journey.  She had been living in Long Beach, discerning entering, and had moved WITH the sisters to the Solvang area..... and was very much a part of what had been going on.  So yes, I do remember it very well, especially as her hopes of entering dissolved with the monastery's dissolution.   

So.... yes, I do remember it pretty well.  It was a LONG year.

 

(And before someone asks, I've lost connection with her in the last 25 years, so I don't know where God has placed her... but I am sure it is close to His Heart....)

 

Edited May 10, 2013 by AnneLine

[Totally Franciscan]

Thank you, Chiqui, for the book insert.  I will read it later today.  It is amazing all the info you and AnneLine have come up with to my inquiry.  AnneLine, are you in California?  I am in East Bay now, but spent many years in South Bay, San Jose.  We took several trips to Solvang, including the one to Mission Santa Inez for my daughter's 5th grade project, a California Mission.  That was when we saw the Carmelite nuns.  I love that area; it is just beautiful.  The Mission is amazing as well.  I am just so saddened by the turn of events for these nuns, but as you said, it is within the plan of the Almighty. 

[AnneLine]

:)   Just south of San Francisco.  

 

Slowly we are taking over the West Coast... he he he.... 

 

Edited May 10, 2013 by AnneLine

[Totally Franciscan]

I am in Walnut Creek!  We are neighbors!