The Eastern Orthodox

[qfnol31]

[quote name='voiciblanche' date='May 29 2004, 05:12 PM'] We've talked about the Catholic Faith versus other faiths and how we all share in the Truth in my theology class, and the teacher said only three churches believe in the Presence of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament - the Episcopalian, the Eastern Orthodox, and, of course, the Roman Catholic. He said that the Episcopals practice their services believing that they have the Presence of our Lord, but they don't. He then said that even though the Eastern Orthodox isn't the Roman Catholic, they still practice and hold the Presence of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Is this even true, and if it is, why? [/quote]
LoL, your Theology teacher is correct. One of the cool things about the Orthodox Church is that we can go to them if there's no way for us to make it to a Catholic Mass (or Divine Liturgy, whatever your Rite may be ) and it will count as our obligation. As was mentioned before, they do have Apostolic Succession and so are valid Masses (just as SSPX is valid). But since we're not part of their Church, and they're not under the Pope, we're not able to receive. I actually know many people at my school (Catholic) who receive from both...I believe the reason we don't is that they don't want us to.

The Episcopal (Anglican) Church broke off from the Catholic Church just so that Henry VIII could get a divorce. Since they broke away, they don't have Apostolic Succession. The Orthodox situation is a little more complicated, but thankfully, many eastern Churches are now Rites under the Pope. Go Byzantines! Anyways, since the Anglicans/Episcopals don't have valid Masses, they can't have a valid Sacrament. Divine Liturgies are valid (as I mentioned earlier), and so the Sacrament is valid. The schism between us when Rome split made the Church really confusing, so the Greek Orthodox do not believe that the Pope in Rome is the true Patriarch. They really didn't want to split, but because of confusion, we did.

Now, I mentioned SSPX. I don't know if this has been discussed much before, but they are valid Masses. However, after reading a lot about SSPX, it makes sense why they're illicit. The Bishops were wrongly Consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre (who was excommunicated). Well, anyways, they priests have Apostolic Succession, but they are not under the authority of the Pope (though they claim they are). That is an example of modern day where a Mass outside the Church can be valid.

[quote name='"voiciblanche"']1. The Church is INFALLIBLE. There isn't much chance that she will mislead her people.
2. We are called to listen to the Church AT ALL TIMES. If something wrong was taught, which is very unlikely, God has mercy on the members of the Church because they usually don't know any better, and are only trusting the Church that Christ gave to them. [/quote]

I was just going to say that this is true, however the Bishops (and Pope, just in certain circumstances) can err. Once a Pope excommunicated St. Athanasius because he denounced Arianism. I was going to say that only occassionally are people freed by ignorance. In a case where someone could know the truth, then they would be bound to follow that. This would be the case if for some reason the Bishop said that murder is okay. By Natural Law, we know better, so it would be better for people to disagree. However, I say this hesitantly because it happens very rarely, but even so, it gives good reason for all of the laity to be well-educated in matters of faith.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 1 2004, 01:53 AM'] Also I never denied that the Church taught on Invinicile ignorance, I understand that, How can a person be punished for not knowing?. [/quote]
St. Thomas Aquinas says that if you can know, but are too lazy to find out, or for reasons such as that, then you are at fault. Just wanted to make that clear to all. (Not always the case).

[quote name='MorphRC']The Church alone possesses [...] the beneficial use of the Sacraments, the efficacious instruments of divine grace. Catechism of Trent[/quote]

Are you saying that the Orthodox don't have the Sacraments?

Edited June 1, 2004 by qfnol31

[MorphRC]

[color=red][edited by dUSt: negative criticism of the current magisterium][/color]

[thicke]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='May 31 2004, 02:44 AM'] And Yes Im officially Pre-V2-Catholic Now! [/quote]
Don't you see this statement makes you non-Catholic???? Don't you see this statement makes you just as much a schismatic as the Orthodox????

Please, do not let the fact that you see contradiction where there is none push you away from your salvation. I'm praying for you.

[MorphRC]

[color=red][edited by dUSt: negative criticism of the current magisterium][/color]

[IcePrincessKRS]

I edited comments which I and others felt was negatively criticising our current Pope and Magisterium and those who adhere to what the "new" Church teaches. There are rules for this phorum and as members you agree to follow them. Break the rules and get edited. Its pretty simple, I've posted the links to the guidelines in this thread already. Read them again if you need to have your memory refreshed.

Every house has rules, PhatMass is dUSt's house and we are to follow HIS rules. I always say, if you want to say things that are against the PhatMass guidelines, go start your own forum where you can say whatever you want.


[quote]dUSt:

Everybody click on the "PHORUM GUIDELINES" link at the top of the board. See it? It's right below the login area. Read it if you wish. [b]This is basically the guidelines all the members are asked to adhere to.[/b] [b]The moderators will be doing there best to help me make sure this is carried out.[/b] Don't hate them. We're all on the same team here. Help the moderators. They're just like you, only with extra buttons to push. ha

. . .

"If obedience doesn't give you peace, it's because you're proud." - St Josemaria Escriva[/quote]

[dUSt]

I'm closing this topic because I don't have time to keep editing and warning all day.

[Winchester]

It's a shame ya'll can't behave