Dating And Discernment (from The Saints)

[FFI Griswold]

Ave Maria!

 

Letter of Saint Bruno to his friend Raoul-le-Verd:

You know very well who it is that says to us: "He who loves the world, and the things of the world, such as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and ambition, does not have the love of the Father abiding in him"; also "Friendship with the world is enmity with God".

...

So, what do you think ought to be done, dear friend? What else, but to trust in the exhortation of God himself and to believe in the truth which cannot deceive? For he calls out to everyone, saying: "Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest". Is it not, after all, a most ridiculous and fruitless labour to be swollen with lust, continually to be tortured with anxiety and worry, fear and sorrow, for the objects of your passion? Is there any heavier burden than to have one's spirit thus cast down into the abyss from the sublime peak of its natural dignity - the veritable quintessence of right order gone awry? Flee, my brother, from these unending miseries and disturbances. Leave the raging storms of this world for the secure and quiet harbour of the port.

For you know very well what wisdom in person has to say to us: "Whoever does not renounce all that he has, cannot be my disciple".

Who cannot perceive what a beautiful thing it is, how beneficial and how delightful besides, to remain in the school of Christ under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, there to learn that divine philosophy which alone shows the way to true happiness ?

So, you must consider the facts very honestly: if the love of God does not succeed in attracting you, nor considerations of self-interest spur you on in the face of such enormous rewards, at least dire necessity and the fear of chastisement ought to compel you to move in this direction.

 

 

Letter of Saint Bruno to his Carthusian Sons:

Rejoice then my brothers over the lot of overflowing happiness that has fallen to you and for the grace of God that you have received in such abundance. Rejoice that you have succeeded in escaping the countless dangers and shipwrecks of this storm-tossed world and have reached a quiet anchorage in the security of a hidden harbor. Many would like to join you — and many are those who make a considerable effort to do so — but fail in their attempt. What is more, many are shut out after having attained it, since it was not in God's plan to give them this grace.

Therefore, my brothers, count it a certitude proven time and time again: whoever has once experienced so enviable a good and subsequently lost it for whatever reasons will grieve over his loss to the end of his days, if he has any regard or concern for the salvation of his soul.

 

 

Ave Maria!

 

fra John Paul

 

[arfink]

FFI Griswold, I think you're echoing...

[beatitude]

Yes and it is great that you know this don't lose sight of it no matter what others may say (see my post above)

 

I think it's important to make a distinction between dating just for the sake of it and dating because you have met a specific person to whom you feel drawn. I would never, ever recommend that somebody go out and look for people to date just to test their vocation - that is unkind, and likely to be futile. But like Sr Marie, before I realised I was called to single life, I was in a relationship with a wonderful guy whom I met while at university. God used this relationship to help me see that single life was for me. We used to pray together almost daily, and both of us ended up with a sense that marriage was not right for me, while it was right for him. Obviously we were sad to part, but we remain good friends, and today he is still a prayer buddy and extremely supportive of my vocation. I pray for him and his vocation too. He wasn't Catholic before he met me, but he converted. Looking back, I can see that God brought good things out of our time together, for both of us.

 

But in my case I didn't really know where I was being called, and I was open to all possibilities. If I had had a strong pull towards religious or consecrated single life at this stage, I doubt I would have got involved with him as more than a friend. It's hard to see clearly if you're trying to look at two possibilities at once.

[Spem in alium]

I think it's important to make a distinction between dating just for the sake of it and dating because you have met a specific person to whom you feel drawn. I would never, ever recommend that somebody go out and look for people to date just to test their vocation - that is unkind, and likely to be futile. But like Sr Marie, before I realised I was called to single life, I was in a relationship with a wonderful guy whom I met while at university. God used this relationship to help me see that single life was for me. We used to pray together almost daily, and both of us ended up with a sense that marriage was not right for me, while it was right for him. Obviously we were sad to part, but we remain good friends, and today he is still a prayer buddy and extremely supportive of my vocation. I pray for him and his vocation too. He wasn't Catholic before he met me, but he converted. Looking back, I can see that God brought good things out of our time together, for both of us.

 

But in my case I didn't really know where I was being called, and I was open to all possibilities. If I had had a strong pull towards religious or consecrated single life at this stage, I doubt I would have got involved with him as more than a friend. It's hard to see clearly if you're trying to look at two possibilities at once.

 

It's difficult. When I started university I found myself attracted to a certain guy. At the time I was pretty naive and maybe a little insecure about the fact that I hadn't dated. Most of my friends didn't understand that I just wasn't ready to date - they just tended to assume that my "disability" (which is physical and very noticeable) prevented me from finding someone.  

I didn't know this guy personally then (so it was more like a crush) but over the years we became friends and I've ended up becoming quite close with him. My attraction to him, which was initially physical, just deepened and deepened as I got to know him better and could see his strengths and weaknesses of character. He's the only guy I've known and had strong feelings for, and I can tell he has strong feelings (probably just of friendship, as he has never mentioned otherwise) for me too. While I love who he is, I just can't really see myself dating him. Beginning discernment confirmed that for me. I know there would be something missing in our relationship if it went to that level, and I have the feeling it would be the same way with another person. I think God brought me closer to this guy for a reason, just as He has with all my friends. I'm happily trying to figure out what that reason is, but I'm fairly sure it has something to do with strengthening my faith :)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Spem in alium

[Crucesignata]

Aha!  I just happened to chance upon this today.   :smile3:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouav-eWQeQ

 

Hope this helps!

 

~Crucesignata~

[MarysLittleFlower]

Dangers? Well, maybe while you're in a seminary or a convent or some such you'd have issues doing dating, but really, there is no danger to experience that during the process of discernment. I would be very worried about a young man or woman who decided to chase a religious vocation without at least having some inkling about marriage first. Otherwise you wind up with nuns or priests who leave their vocations to go be married because they were hasty and didn't fully investigate their options.

 

I see what you mean, but what about people who always felt like they're called to religious life? I know this might happen rarely but like the Saints who made a vow of virginity at a young age. They didn't regret it.. I'm not saying this always happens, and yes people have a natural draw to marriage, and that's normal - but I'm just saying that there are exceptions so I'm not sure about making a rule about this? :)

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm sorry I don't have any quotes from the Saints, but I just wanted to say that - I've heard that it's good not to date while discerning, because it could be confusing... and from experience i'd say that yes it's confusing to "consider" a relationship while discerning (even if it never happens), so personally I'd avoid it!

Edited June 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

The dating issue is interesting for me. I'm 21 and discerning. Up till recently I considered marriage as my calling and really wanted to be a mother. These day I'm not dismissing it, but feeling more and more that religious life is my call. I've also never dated, never been kissed, etc, mainly because I didn't see the point of dating during school. I have a few male friends and have had a few crushes in the past, but nothing really happened. I don't see my lack of relationship as a real problem because I've never felt ready to date, but some people have responded to the news of my discernment with saying: "Don't you want to experience dating just once to know what it's like?" My response is: not really. I don't see the point of dating just for the sake of it, and besides I already know the perfect guy :P

 

Basically, what I'm wondering by all this is: what would you say to someone like me who is discerning and feels as though they are becoming more sure of a religious calling but has never dated? Would you advise such a person to try and experience romantic relationships regardless?

 

I'm much like you... I don't think it's good to date "just for the sake of it", and it can just confuse you, I think it's only worthwhile to date if you feel like you're called to marriage. I spoke to the vocations director of my diocese and he advised actually that it's not good to date while discerning. And he's a really orthodox priest. So I think that's a possible view to hold and it's okay. :)

 

I know there are Sisters or nuns who dated and now say that they're glad to have had the learning experience. I think there can be other cases, where a Sister/nun who has never dated or never been kissed, would be happy about this because her heart has only ever belonged to Jesus. Actually if I would be called to marriage, I would be happy to never have kissed anyone but my husband, and I would want to save this for the wedding day. I don't think we need to have certain experiences just for the sake of having them. There are times when people learn something from an experience, like discerning marriage and dating and then discerning religious life... but just for their own sake, that doesn't really make sense to me. Dating isn't about "fun", it's about discerning marriage :)

[Kateri89]

I don't know...I mean I've definitely been attracted to guys and have even thought that I would say yes if a certain one asked me out, but ultimately when I imagine being married with kids I just feel like something is missing. I really feel that I'm called to serve in a way that wouldn't be possible if I were a wife and a mother.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Spem and Sr Kateri I would say that if you do not feel drawn to dating don't do it. This can lead to a great deal of unnecessary pain and suffering later on.

 

As for me I did date a little but was never really that into it, I only seriously dated 2 people. It seems to me that Jesus was preserving me for himself in a lot of ways even when I was not yet discerning my vocation. Then I was "captured by love" and I can not imagine dating anyone else ever again.

 

I feel similarly :) back in high school I was very upset that I wasn't dating anyone, but now I'm glad.

Thanks MC. That would be my first instinct, but then I have people telling me that I need to have experience from both sides (dating and not dating) in order to make a choice. I don't really agree with that. Experience does make certain things easier, but what about Sisters who joined the convent right after they left school? They didn't have experience of the world after they finished school, so can they really have made a good choice? I say of course! It's not just about experience, it's about listening to yourself and to God. I really feel what you say in the second part of your post. Looking back on life I  do feel as though Jesus has set me apart for himself. My truest fulfillment has come from him, and I'm such a lover of being contemplative and in prayer that I can't really see myself being apart from that - as I know dating someone would push me to be something else.

 

 

These are things I do a lot too. I spend time building up my friendships, because I feel I can gain a lot from them, perhaps more so than from a significant other.

 

I think if you feel God calling you to religious life, and not to marriage, it wouldn't help to date. We're human and while dating you can become really interested in the guy, and then what? Then you'd have to sort through all these feelings instead of continuing on the discernment...... it's different if someone feels potentially called to marriage and meets someone.

 

With discerning and dating: it's like if a girl really believes she wants to marry one man, but goes out with another one "just in case"... it'll just confuse her.

I think it's important to make a distinction between dating just for the sake of it and dating because you have met a specific person to whom you feel drawn. I would never, ever recommend that somebody go out and look for people to date just to test their vocation - that is unkind, and likely to be futile. But like Sr Marie, before I realised I was called to single life, I was in a relationship with a wonderful guy whom I met while at university. God used this relationship to help me see that single life was for me. We used to pray together almost daily, and both of us ended up with a sense that marriage was not right for me, while it was right for him. Obviously we were sad to part, but we remain good friends, and today he is still a prayer buddy and extremely supportive of my vocation. I pray for him and his vocation too. He wasn't Catholic before he met me, but he converted. Looking back, I can see that God brought good things out of our time together, for both of us.

 

But in my case I didn't really know where I was being called, and I was open to all possibilities. If I had had a strong pull towards religious or consecrated single life at this stage, I doubt I would have got involved with him as more than a friend. It's hard to see clearly if you're trying to look at two possibilities at once.

 

I think there's a difference between dating cause you think you might be called to marriage, and dating even though you know you're not called. I think it's not good to date if you know you're not called to marriage. :) I agree.

Edited June 7, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[OnlySunshine]

I remember how my aunt, 2 older cousins (my aunt's daughters), and my maternal grandmother would ask me all the time in junior high and high school if I had a boyfriend.  My cousins were almost always dating someone (and lost their virginity in their teens) and wanted me to have the same experience.  Although I asked a guy out in junior high school, it didn't materialize and dating really wasn't something I was that interested in.  But my family made me feel kind of alien or something.  My sister didn't date anyone until her junior year in high school and, even then, she did not "go out" with him or anything.  I didn't date anyone until I was 19 years old but I only went on 2 dates before I broke it off with the guy because he didn't respect my moral beliefs about no premarital sex.  I just didn't feel called to have a relationship with anyone after that.  Even times where I wonder if I am called to marriage, the idea of "dating" doesn't really sit well with me.  I've had crushes just like any normal person my age but I don't want to pursue them further because I don't really want anyone except Jesus Christ.  I sometimes wonder if this means that I am called to either religious life or consecrated single life.  It's very confusing!

Edited June 7, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[Chiquitunga]

It's nice to know someone has a similar experience  :)

 

me three! :smile3:

 

I think there can be other cases, where a Sister/nun who has never dated or never been kissed, would be happy about this because her heart has only ever belonged to Jesus.

Yes! :heart:

[Spem in alium]

Aha!  I just happened to chance upon this today.   :smile3:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouav-eWQeQ

 

Hope this helps!

 

~Crucesignata~

 

Oh, I liked this a lot. Some of the things they said did seem a bit too general, but for the most part it really connected with me. Thanks for sharing it :) Hope to check out more of their videos.

 

I'm much like you... I don't think it's good to date "just for the sake of it", and it can just confuse you, I think it's only worthwhile to date if you feel like you're called to marriage. I spoke to the vocations director of my diocese and he advised actually that it's not good to date while discerning. And he's a really orthodox priest. So I think that's a possible view to hold and it's okay. :)

 

I know there are Sisters or nuns who dated and now say that they're glad to have had the learning experience. I think there can be other cases, where a Sister/nun who has never dated or never been kissed, would be happy about this because her heart has only ever belonged to Jesus. Actually if I would be called to marriage, I would be happy to never have kissed anyone but my husband, and I would want to save this for the wedding day. I don't think we need to have certain experiences just for the sake of having them. There are times when people learn something from an experience, like discerning marriage and dating and then discerning religious life... but just for their own sake, that doesn't really make sense to me. Dating isn't about "fun", it's about discerning marriage :)

 

I don't see how I could date just for the sake of it. Not only would it be confusing for me, but in my view it also seems like it would be very hurtful towards the other person. 

 

I would prop your answer so many times if I could. I totally get what you say about marriage and it's so nice to find someone who thinks the same way! If I were called to marriage, I would not want to kiss my husband until my wedding day. I've told a few people this and most didn't respond well. But I don't mind, because it's my life :) And if I am, as I think, called to religious life, then I would only ever belong to the Lord. 

 

I don't know...I mean I've definitely been attracted to guys and have even thought that I would say yes if a certain one asked me out, but ultimately when I imagine being married with kids I just feel like something is missing. I really feel that I'm called to serve in a way that wouldn't be possible if I were a wife and a mother.

 

I agree with this too. I feel as though there's so much more I can do as a Sister than I could if I were in a family.

 

 

I remember how my aunt, 2 older cousins (my aunt's daughters), and my maternal grandmother would ask me all the time in junior high and high school if I had a boyfriend.  My cousins were almost always dating someone (and lost their virginity in their teens) and wanted me to have the same experience.  Although I asked a guy out in junior high school, it didn't materialize and dating really wasn't something I was that interested in.  But my family made me feel kind of alien or something.  My sister didn't date anyone until her junior year in high school and, even then, she did not "go out" with him or anything.  I didn't date anyone until I was 19 years old but I only went on 2 dates before I broke it off with the guy because he didn't respect my moral beliefs about no premarital sex.  I just didn't feel called to have a relationship with anyone after that.  Even times where I wonder if I am called to marriage, the idea of "dating" doesn't really sit well with me.  I've had crushes just like any normal person my age but I don't want to pursue them further because I don't really want anyone except Jesus Christ.  I sometimes wonder if this means that I am called to either religious life or consecrated single life.  It's very confusing!

 

Yep, there are some people who ask me about my love life whenever I speak with them. I'm usually hesitant to tell them I'm discerning as I know they'd probably freak out - "What?! But you've never dated?! How could you go through life and never lose your virginity???!!!" Yeah, must be tough :P :) 
 

 

 

 

me three! :smile3:

 

Hurrah! Glad you're part of the squad :P

[Julie de Sales]

Well...I never really dated, but I did some things in the past out of impulse and I regret it now. I strongly believe that if someone feels the call to religious life it is better to try this path first and if it doesn't work you can then turn to guys. At some point I was upset I wasn't having a boyfriend, everyone was dating and I also felt attracted to some guys sometimes, but now I see this in a different perspective. I usually become very attached to the people that love me and can understand me at a deeper level, and letting them go would be too hard for me to do. So, if God wants me to consecrate my life to him, maybe he keeps the ,,rivals" at a certain distance.  :hehe2:

[MissScripture]

If you have healthy relationships with people of the opposite gender, I wouldn't think dating would be "necessary, as some people sometimes make it sound. I mean, if the avoidance of dating is because of a fear of some aspect of the other gender or marriage, that could be very problematic for discernment and fulfillment of any vocation. But to date for the sake of dating sounds very much like using someone, and in no way a good idea.