Why Dads Don't Take Paternity Leave

[CrossCuT]

Very interesting article from the Wall Street Journal on the social norms surrounding maternity/paternity leave.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324049504578541633708283670.html

 

 

 

 Men are reluctant to take time off for a variety of reasons, ranging from a fear of losing status at work to lingering stereotypes about a father's role in the family.
Leave is the norm for women, but men have only become a part of the discussion as traditional housewife and breadwinner roles have shifted. Countries around the world, such as Sweden and Portugal, have mandated leave for fathers, but leave in the U.S. remains stubbornly short—if it is taken at all.

 

 

 

When The Wall Street Journal's Facebook followers were asked for their thoughts on leave, there appeared to be a generational divide—young fathers see leave as more essential, while older workers say it carries a stigma at their workplaces.

 

 

[Gabriela]

I'm in academia, and this topic came up several times in an Organizational Communication class I had last semester. Apparently, at least in academia, there is a stigma also for women who take "too much" leave. It's not as bad as for fathers, but it's there. For men, it's really bad. But the policies are mostly in place and provide much better leave than those corporations mentioned in the article. (The professor of that class was planning to take an entire semester off—with pay—for his first child.)

[Winchester]

Because dads aren't chicks.

[CrossCuT]

:|

[GeorgiiMichael]

Disclaimer, the following is merely speculation.

 

In my sophomore year, I took a human geography course, where we looked at populations across the world. It was quite interesting. In that class, we looked at how in may places in Europe, the population is actually decreasing because many couples don't have any children, and if they do, they only have one child. The birth rate isn't keeping up with the death rate which, again, gives rise to population decreases. We don't have this problem in the United States, although that's primarily because of immigration. As a whole, many natural born American citizens are reproducing in the same manner as their European counterparts. 

 

Comparing this knowledge to the paid paternity leave statistics, it seems to be that the places with the most paid paternity leave are also the places with the fastest population decrease (that may not be entirely accurate, my knowledge is at least 4 years old and therefore may be completely made up in some specific instances). 

 

Certainly, the stigma on paternity leave (and even on maternity leave) are huge factors here in the United States. But it may be that we haven't started to really have a population crisis where we want to encourage people to have children.

[Basilisa Marie]

I think it's a problem.  Anyone who takes family leave, paternity or maternity, is seen as not being as committed to the company, their job, or their career.  I'd argue it's only acceptable for women to take some maternity leave because people realize women need time off for recovery...not to parent children.  The struggle to get any kind of family leave is indicative of society's hostility to families.  Career and family are seen as mutually exclusive things, competing with each other for dominance in a person's life. If we want people to have larger families, we have to change the way we see jobs and families.  

 

I think it'd also be beneficial to encourage young dads.  It seems like there is a strong generational divide.  Older dads felt that being a good father meant spending a lot of time advancing their careers, to provide as much as they could.  Younger dads seem to focus more on spending time with their children.   That's not to say older fathers don't want to spend time with their children or that younger dads don't care about their careers.  But the existence of a strong daddy blog community wouldn't have been thinkable a generation ago, and not just because blogging wasn't a thing.  

[Winchester]

Disclaimer, the following is merely speculation.

 

In my sophomore year, I took a human geography course, where we looked at populations across the world. It was quite interesting. In that class, we looked at how in may places in Europe, the population is actually decreasing because many couples don't have any children, and if they do, they only have one child. The birth rate isn't keeping up with the death rate which, again, gives rise to population decreases. We don't have this problem in the United States, although that's primarily because of immigration. As a whole, many natural born American citizens are reproducing in the same manner as their European counterparts. 

 

Comparing this knowledge to the paid paternity leave statistics, it seems to be that the places with the most paid paternity leave are also the places with the fastest population decrease (that may not be entirely accurate, my knowledge is at least 4 years old and therefore may be completely made up in some specific instances). 

 

Certainly, the stigma on paternity leave (and even on maternity leave) are huge factors here in the United States. But it may be that we haven't started to really have a population crisis where we want to encourage people to have children.

 

I've made a careful study of human geography. Quite fascinating.

[Brother Adam]

I took 80% of my vacation time when my 4th was born in December to help at home.

[God the Father]

If men start routinely taking paid time off of work, we're going to get our salaries reduced, just like women do.

[Basilisa Marie]

If men start routinely taking paid time off of work, we're going to get our salaries reduced, just like women do.

 

No, I don't think so.  Because the idea that women get paid less because they have children is a myth.  When people study the pay gap, they account for all factors.  Age, experience, education, etc.  Men and women who are identical on paper still get different salaries.  And it's illegal to discriminate against an employee because she is or may become pregnant, by paying her a different salary.  Some people say that women get lower salaries for other factors, one of them being that women aren't as aggressive in negotiations for things like salary as men, because women aren't supposed to be as confrontational as men are.  

[PhuturePriest]

No, I don't think so.  Because the idea that women get paid less because they have children is a myth.  When people study the pay gap, they account for all factors.  Age, experience, education, etc.  Men and women who are identical on paper still get different salaries.  And it's illegal to discriminate against an employee because she is or may become pregnant, by paying her a different salary.  Some people say that women get lower salaries for other factors, one of them being that women aren't as aggressive in negotiations for things like salary as men, because women aren't supposed to be as confrontational as men are.  

 

Studies show that men make more money when they have families. You can work the same job, but the moment you are a father you suddenly get more money (It just doesn't seem like it because kids are giant black holes that suck up your money). I wonder if this is the case for women?

[Slappo]

Both fathers and mothers are covered under FMLA which allows up to 90 days of leave for a medical purpose. All a father has to do to take paid/unpaid leave for the birth of a child is claim FMLA... I don't get that map that only shows 3 states.

[Ice_nine]

Why dad's dont take paternity leave? I figure it's because they don't have to deal with the physical trauma of pushing a watermelon sized human being out of their bodies :shrug:.

[brianthephysicist]

Stigma or not, if God chooses to bless Missy and I with a child (this assuming He blesses us with marriage first lol), I'm going to do what it takes to get paid leave for at least a few weeks.

[CrossCuT]

Why dad's dont take paternity leave? I figure it's because they don't have to deal with the physical trauma of pushing a watermelon sized human being out of their bodies :shrug:.

 

Well of course. Men do not go through the physical requirements that accompany child birth. However I dont feel like that means they CANT take paid leave to spend time with their baby (whether its the first or the second or the 20th). There is no reason the father cant be around for support while the mother is recovering. A new baby, from what Ive been told, is usually a bit of work.  :hehe2:

I dont think the father should lose out on the early days of care, time, and bonding just because he is a dude. 

Up until this article, I thought paternity leave was the bees knees! Seemed logical and fair to me that a father gets time off as well!! However I hadnt realized the stigma that surrounds it.

Now do I think they need 3 months off? (or whatever the typical amount of time a women gets) Probably not. But SOME time? Absolutely. 

 

Man up, men! Go take some paid leave with your new baby!

[Lil Red]

For my two living children, I was working for the Church. I received 3 weeks off from the diocese. I had to take the rest of my accumulated vacation/leave time for the remainder of the time I had off. For the child I miscarried (while I was working for the Church), I received no time off, had to chaperone teens at a work camp the next week, and after the conference was over, was hassled about taking time off - like I didn't deserve it. the Church at a local and diocesan level is at times worse than the secular world about taking time off and supporting families. 

[CrossCuT]

For my two living children, I was working for the Church. I received 3 weeks off from the diocese. I had to take the rest of my accumulated vacation/leave time for the remainder of the time I had off. For the child I miscarried (while I was working for the Church), I received no time off, had to chaperone teens at a work camp the next week, and after the conference was over, was hassled about taking time off - like I didn't deserve it. the Church at a local and diocesan level is at times worse than the secular world about taking time off and supporting families. 

 3 weeks? Oh wow. That doesnt seem like very much, but then again I dont really know what the average amount of time is. The company I work for gives mothers 3 months maternity leave. I dont think they have to take all of it, but thats what they are offered.

I also think its terrible that you were not given time off for a miscarriage; to mourn, spend time with family, or even to just recover physically. :(

[ardillacid]

Somebody's gotta work. 

[PhuturePriest]

Why dad's dont take paternity leave? I figure it's because they don't have to deal with the physical trauma of pushing a watermelon sized human being out of their bodies :shrug:.

 

What CrossCut said. Also, the base of a watermelon is wider than a newborn baby. I'm not downplaying childbirth, but I'm not sure if it's actually possible to give birth to a baby that is as wide as a watermelon.

[morostheos]

At my job men and women have the same provisions for time off for having a baby - there is no set amount of paid time off, but you are allowed to use your sick time. This is probably less than ideal, but we have a generous sick time accural so it works out to be not too bad. Of course you can always take more time off as unpaid under FMLA.