Clothing, And What Is Worn Before It.

[Kayte Postle]

Something I've found interesting is that the TOR's don't receive the habit until they make their first vows. For postulantcy they wear a black skirt and white shirt, and for the novitiate they wear a short white veil, white shirt, and a jumper. You can see all three in the pic below:

 

Edited July 18, 2013 by Kayte Postle

[BarbTherese]

Something I've found interesting is that the TOR's don't receive the habit until they make their first vows. For postulantcy they wear a black skirt and white shirt, and for the novitiate they wear a short white veil, white shirt, and a jumper. You can see all three in the pic below:

 

 

Good concept, I thought - since many that do leave, leave during their noviciate years.  The noviciate is when the really difficult work of religious life often begins in earnest.  The first three years of temporary vows is an ideal time to receive the formal habit I think.   The sister on the left, I notice she does not have a cincture and is dressed differently, and she is wearing the TOR cross while the others are wearing a crucifix.  Although, the postulant could be wearing the TOR as well.  Are they all from the same Order?

The second novice from the left doesn't seem to be a youngie.

Edited July 18, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[Kayte Postle]

Good concept, I thought - since many that do leave, leave during their noviciate years.  The noviciate is when the really difficult work of religious life often begins in earnest.  The first three years of temporary vows is an ideal time to receive the formal habit I think.   The sister on the left, I notice she does not have a cincture and is dressed differently, and she is wearing the TOR cross while the others are wearing a crucifix.  Although, the postulant could be wearing the TOR as well.  Are they all from the same Order?

The second novice from the left doesn't seem to be a youngie.

 

The sister on the left is the novice, and the ones in the middle are professed sisters, with the postulant on the right. I should have clarified that, in my first post, woops!

[BarbTherese]

My bad...... :blush:........I saw the white veils and took it for granted they were novices. But you had stated that they don't receive the habit until first profession, so the conclusion SHOULD have been very obvious to me.

[Lumiere]

Missionary Sisters of the Holy Family

[Anselm]

Monks in the Solesmes Congregation are actually clothed in the full habit for postulancy, but that then lasts for a whole year before the novitiate.

[maximillion]

Wow. I didn't know that.

[OnlySunshine]

Nvm.  I don't want to post this.

Edited July 18, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[OnlySunshine]

See above.  :blush:

Edited July 18, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[graciandelamadrededios]

 

Discalced Carmelite Nun sitting on a chair without back rest - she let her scapular hung at the back instead of sitting on them:

 

• 

Discalced Carmelite Nun sitting on the choir stall- she placed the back portion of her scapular on the side:

 

• 

 

Photos are from Loretto Carmel's website

 

 

I received additional answers from Prioresses in USA, UK and Australia:

 

One Prioress said they cannot avoid sitting on their scapulars but they avoid kneeling on them

 

Another Prioress said they can kneel and sit on the scapular and that she has not seen any other Carmels (the Carmels she visited and where is from) folding the scapulars in order to avoid kneeling them. 

 

Also, one Prioress said they do not kneel on the scapulars and apparently, can sit on them before Vatican II.  After Vatican II, since the material of the habit is now thinner, it creases easily so they put them aside in order not to create it and they still do not kneel on the scapular.

 

Whether to kneel/sit on the scapular or not was not legislated by the Discalced Carmelite Nuns, hence, the custom differs from Carmel to Carmel.

[Chiquitunga]

I received additional answers from Prioresses in USA, UK and Australia:

 

One Prioress said they cannot avoid sitting on their scapulars but they avoid kneeling on them

 

Another Prioress said they can kneel and sit on the scapular and that she has not seen any other Carmels (the Carmels she visited and where is from) folding the scapulars in order to avoid kneeling them. 

 

Also, one Prioress said they do not kneel on the scapulars and apparently, can sit on them before Vatican II.  After Vatican II, since the material of the habit is now thinner, it creases easily so they put them aside in order not to create it and they still do not kneel on the scapular.

 

Whether to kneel/sit on the scapular or not was not legislated by the Discalced Carmelite Nuns, hence, the custom differs from Carmel to Carmel.

 

Thank you for sharing that with us! Very interesting!

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Since this wasn't specifically a Carmelite thread...the Dominican Order does NOT sit on the scapular because the scapular IS the habit. It was given to the Order by our Lady when she gave it to Bl. Reginald. After that, the Order wore the scapular. This is before Simon Stock, by the way. :saint2:  The scapular is the only part of the habit that is blessed. Well, the nuns' veil is blessed but that was never considered part of the habit. Giving the veil wasn't part of the clothing ceremony until the 1600's because all women wore some sort of veil and it was just considered part of what one wore. When the veil/coif became not the norm than the nun's started having is as part of the clothing ceremony.

 

Actually, the Carmelites got a lot of things from the Dominicans because the Dominicans were asked to help them when they went from hermits to friars. They used the OP constitutions as their guide.

 

The scapular is kissed at various times. There have never been any uniform customs. But an indulgence was always attached to the kissing of the scapular. So, we kiss it if we make a mistake in choir or if we pass by a crucifix or image of Our Lady. Some monasteries do it when asking the permission of the prioress to leave a community gathering early, like the refectory. We used to but we could never get the attention of the prioress!

 

Other Orders have beautiful and holy customs...they just might not be as well known or talked about as much. In the end, it is the living the life that matters, not the little customs that have grown up alongside the charism. They help the life but they are not essential and over time some customs probably needed to go because they no longer had the meaning they had.

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

The Discalced Carmelite Nuns also kisses their scapulars and the scapulars of the presider and of Mother Prioress.  This custom can be found in Ceremonial, Regular Customs, and Paper of Exaction (documents published before Vatican II)

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

Since this wasn't specifically a Carmelite thread...the Dominican Order does NOT sit on the scapular because the scapular IS the habit. It was given to the Order by our Lady when she gave it to Bl. Reginald. After that, the Order wore the scapular. This is before Simon Stock, by the way. :saint2:  The scapular is the only part of the habit that is blessed. Well, the nuns' veil is blessed but that was never considered part of the habit. Giving the veil wasn't part of the clothing ceremony until the 1600's because all women wore some sort of veil and it was just considered part of what one wore. When the veil/coif became not the norm than the nun's started having is as part of the clothing ceremony.

 

Actually, the Carmelites got a lot of things from the Dominicans because the Dominicans were asked to help them when they went from hermits to friars. They used the OP constitutions as their guide.

 

The scapular is kissed at various times. There have never been any uniform customs. But an indulgence was always attached to the kissing of the scapular. So, we kiss it if we make a mistake in choir or if we pass by a crucifix or image of Our Lady. Some monasteries do it when asking the permission of the prioress to leave a community gathering early, like the refectory. We used to but we could never get the attention of the prioress!

 

Other Orders have beautiful and holy customs...they just might not be as well known or talked about as much. In the end, it is the living the life that matters, not the little customs that have grown up alongside the charism. They help the life but they are not essential and over time some customs probably needed to go because they no longer had the meaning they had.

 

Very interesting! Thank you for sharing your thoughts here! & I didn't know that about the Dominican scapular :smile3:

[graciandelamadrededios]

Discalced Carmelite Nun kneeling on her cell - before Vatican II

(take note on how the scapular is placed away from her knees)

 

 

 

[Alberto Guimaraes]

The Poor Sisters of St. Clare changed their postulant dress to be less like a habit. When they were the Franciscan Sisters Minor, this was their habit (sorry for the huge picture).

 

And the postulant dress was very much like it just without the veil and a belt instead of the cord.

 

In the interest of poverty, they kept the two postulants in the old style dress, but postulants now wear a jumper with a white shirt under. I suppose they had the same opinion as you of the habit making a bigger impression with the postulant dress being dissimilar. 

 

 

Peace and Good!

I follow thinking going barefoot is sublime!

Jesus, Mary and Francis be with you all!

Br. Alberto Guimaraes OFS

Braga - Portugal

 

[manymarys]

I haven't read all of the posts, but a Dominican and a Sister of Life told me that they don't sit on their scapulars because they are blessed.  If you've ever seen the Nashville/Ann Arbor/SOL in church you'll notice they whisk the scapular to the side before sitting. 

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

Perhaps the wearing of the jumper for a aspirant/candidate/postulant is their first act of "dying to themselves and living only for Christ."

[Gabriela]

Perhaps the wearing of the jumper for a aspirant/candidate/postulant is their first act of "dying to themselves and living only for Christ."

 

A jumper is certainly a penance, if that's what you mean. ;-)

[Mary+Immaculate<3]

A jumper is certainly a penance, if that's what you mean. ;-)

That is exactly what I mean xD
Heck, we might as well go denim and be like the homeschool moms of yesteryear lol