Pope Francis' Comments On Gay Priests

[Era Might]

There was a quote from a movie where Jack Lemon played a priest who was mentoring a seminarian. Someone said what difference does it make if you give up women or men to become a priest.

If they are truly willing to be celibate, I don't have a problem. If they are entering the priesthood as a way to hide from their true selves, as a way to have authority and access to prey, I have a big problem.

 

Yeah, that's the Pope's point as I see it. They're Christians, they're priests. Treat them as you would any other priest...if a priest has struggles, then help him. Reminds me of the whiskey priest in "The Power and the Glory"...priests aren't supermen, they're human beings.

[Apotheoun]

You didn't, I did. If you don't want me to say something that you didn't address, then stop addressing things that I didn't say.

I see. Then there was no real need to quote my original post, and your comment was just a remark thrown out to state your position. 

[Era Might]

I see. Then there was no real need to quote my original post, and your comment was just a remark thrown out to state your position. 

 

I quoted your post because you quoted mine and responded with something that had nothing to do with what I said.

[Apotheoun]

I quoted your post because you quoted mine and responded with something that had nothing to do with what I said.

And I quoted your post because you seemed to be implying that the Traditional Catholic viewpoint calls for a witch-hunt, which is utter nonsense. I also pointed out that the Vatican document on seminarians did say that men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, while simultaneously reminding people that same-sex attraction is an objective disorder.

 

The final part of what you said also appeared rather unnecessary, since the laity should always help their pastors to be good pastors.

[Era Might]

And I quoted your post because you seemed to be implying that the Traditional Catholic viewpoint calls for a witch-hunt, which is utter nonsense. I also pointed out that the Vatican document on seminarians did say that men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, while simultaneously reminding people that same-sex attraction is an objective disorder.

 

The final part of what you said also appeared rather unnecessary, since the laity should always help their pastors to be good pastors.

 

There is no "Traditional Catholic viewpoint" that priests with homosexual attractions must be hunted down and thrown out of the priesthood.

[Apotheoun]

There is no "Traditional Catholic viewpoint" that priests with homosexual attractions must be hunted down and thrown out of the priesthood.

On that we agree. Now if only you had said that from the beginning. 

[Era Might]

On that we agree. Now if only you had said that from the beginning. 

 

I did say that from the beginning:

 

"What he said is common sense...what is he going to do, go on a witchhunt for priests who have homosexual attractions? Pope Benedict would not have done that either. They're priests, help them be good priests, like any other priest."

 

But you felt the need make a point about seminarians, suggesting that I said anything about seminarians.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

I did say that from the beginning:

 

"What he said is common sense...what is he going to do, go on a witchhunt for priests who have homosexual attractions? Pope Benedict would not have done that either. They're priests, help them be good priests, like any other priest."

 

But you felt the need make a point about seminarians, suggesting that I said anything about seminarians.

I read your post after re-reading the referenced Vatican document which does say that men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be ordained. That colored my take on what you said, which seemed to imply that it was somehow a witch-hunt. If that was not your intention you have my apologies. But you can't blame me for reading you that way, seeing that you tend to be wishy washy on Catholic moral doctrine.

[Era Might]

I read your post after re-reading the referenced Vatican document which does say that men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be ordained. That colored my take on what you said, which seemed to imply that it was somehow a witch-hunt. If that was not your intention you have my apologies. But you can't blame me for reading you that way, seeing that you tend to be wishy washy on Catholic moral doctrine.

 

You don't know me so shut the eff up and mind your business about what I supposedly believe about Catholic moral doctrine and get a life and stop parading around how supposedly smart and pure you are.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

You don't know me so shut the eff up and mind your business about what I supposedly believe about Catholic moral doctrine and get a life and stop parading around how supposedly smart and pure you are.

I'm sorry. I didn't know that you supported the Church's doctrine on this particular issue, that is, that homosexual acts are always gravely immoral and that the homosexual condition, although it is not a sin, is an objective disorder that involves a more or less strong tendency oriented toward an intrinsic moral evil. My apologies.

[Apotheoun]

You don't know me so shut the eff up and mind your business about what I supposedly believe about Catholic moral doctrine and get a life and stop parading around how supposedly smart and pure you are.

I don't remember ever claiming to be "smart" or "pure." I am a sinner like every other human being, and as a sinner I struggle every day to live life as God demands in the commandments and the holy Gospel.

[Era Might]

You don't know me so shut the eff up and mind your business about what I supposedly believe about Catholic moral doctrine and get a life and stop parading around how supposedly smart and pure you are.

 

This was mean, so I'm sorry.

 

Thread continue around original topic.

[dUSt]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-pope-gays-idUSBRE96S0DX20130729

 

This article seems fair:

 

 

In response to a question about reports of a "gay lobby" in the Vatican, after it suffered a string of scandals over pedophile priests and corruption in the administration of the Holy See, Francis said:

"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?

"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worst problem," he said.

"You see a lot written about the gay lobby. I still have not seen anyone in the Vatican with an identity card saying they are gay," he joked.

Francis defended all gays from discrimination but also referred to the Catholic Church's universal Catechism, which says that while homosexual orientation is not sinful, homosexual acts are.

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society," he said, speaking in Italian and using the word "gay", instead of "homosexual" which previous pontiffs mainly used.

 

[BG45]

Thanks Dust, just sent that Reuters piece to a friend who had asked about the Pope's comments.  

 

 

[Basilisa Marie]

I saw somebody write that it's different from Benedict's opinion, which was that any man with homosexual tendencies should never become a priest.  Does anyone know anything about that? 

[HisChildForever]

I saw somebody write that it's different from Benedict's opinion, which was that any man with homosexual tendencies should never become a priest.  Does anyone know anything about that? 

 

I'm not sure, but if Benedict did say that, and Francis has a different opinion - it's not like this is [i]ex cathedra[/i] stuff, so imo there's no need for people to get worked up over it. (Just a general comment.)

[Apotheoun]

I saw somebody write that it's different from Benedict's opinion, which was that any man with homosexual tendencies should never become a priest.  Does anyone know anything about that? 

The Vatican Congregation that oversees Catholic seminary education released the following instruction - approved by Pope Benedict XVI - a few years ago:

 

". . . [T]his Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practice homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called 'gay culture'. 

 

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies. 

 

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate."

[LouisvilleFan]

I saw somebody write that it's different from Benedict's opinion, which was that any man with homosexual tendencies should never become a priest.  Does anyone know anything about that? 

 

He did make a statement that men with a "deep-seeded" homosexuality are not fit candidates for priesthood.

 

Benedict never gave an unqualified statement about all homosexuals and priesthood, only that "deep-seeded" homosexuals are not fit. I don't think the he ever explained what that means, exactly, but I guess we could discuss that here...

[Apotheoun]

He did make a statement that men with a "deep-seeded" homosexuality are not fit candidates for priesthood.

 

Benedict never gave an unqualified statement about all homosexuals and priesthood, only that "deep-seeded" homosexuals are not fit. I don't think the he ever explained what that means, exactly, but I guess we could discuss that here...

Actually Pope Benedict didn't just make a comment about not ordaining (or allowing in seminary) men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies; instead, by his direct order the Congregation for Catholic Education, which is charged with overseeing the seminary education process worldwide, issued an official instruction on the matter (n.b., I quoted a portion of that instruction in my previous post).

[jazzytakara]

I didn't even know he was referring to homosexual priests and potential priests. Every media source and social media source I have come across are telling the story that he has struck down all of the Catholic Church's views on homosexuality. So this is news to me..Looking into it now, many who realize this is only regarding priests are complaining it is still wrong as priests are already forced/have chosen (depending on your source) to be celibate. If not that then they are complaining about another example of the Church being 'anti-women'. Sigh, can't trust the media at all these days for a reliable, accurate, and truthful report...its all filled with bias (and whatever is needed to promote that bias, via misrepresentation, lies, and hype). 
 

In my opinion, he didn't say anything outside of the norm when it comes to Catholic teaching. He wasn't speaking about recognizing equal marriage rights, he was speaking about treating everyone equaling, not judging, not hating, and welcoming all to the Catholic Church. A lot of people claim they are following God by reiterating the Bible in regards to homosexuality, but really they are being hateful, judgmental, and far from welcoming. He still expects Catholics to 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. And he never spoke against the Catholic teaching that homosexuals are called to celibacy. Since priests are all called to celibacy, this reiterates that he wasn't speaking about equal marriage rights, striking down the Church's views in regards to homosexuality, he is speaking about equal treatment and acceptance.