Is Religion On A Downward Slippery Slope

[Maggyie]

So what about Sunni and Shia. They fight over who where's the biggest hat. One side believes that the top bigwig should be elected and the other believe that the top bigwig is a true descendant of Muhammad.

 

Religion doesn't create war you say? Well considering how big the Euroasian-Indonesian belt is I'm surprised you can't see that truth

 

Sunni and Shia are a great example. Do you really believe that sectarian violence in say, Iraq is driven by theology? I believe my theology is better than yours therefore I must blow myself up near your mosque? This is a fabricated Western paradigm, most people who accept it are either Westerners or Middle Eastern political opportunists...

 

"One side believes that the top bigwig should be elected and the other believe that the top bigwig is a true descendant of Muhammad" describes WHY the 2 groups exist. It does NOT describe why they fight and kill each other.

 

Look at the Troubles in Ireland. On the face of it, it's a Catholic-Protestant conflict... but you can't go back and say "this conflict has its roots in the Reformation. The Catholics believe the pope should be the bigwig, while the Protestants think the king should be the bigwig or that there should be a committee of bigwigs."

 

yes that describes the difference between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, but not why they fought. Religion is just a marker used to identify the two sides...The roots of the conflict lie completely outside religion. Ultimately the Irish tragedy had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with English colonialism, Irish self-determination, land, political power... the same is really true for Shia and Sunni factions.

[Quinn]

Sunni and Shia are a great example. Do you really believe that sectarian violence in say, Iraq is driven by theology? I believe my theology is better than yours therefore I must blow myself up near your mosque? This is a fabricated Western paradigm, most people who accept it are either Westerners or Middle Eastern political opportunists...

 

"One side believes that the top bigwig should be elected and the other believe that the top bigwig is a true descendant of Muhammad" describes WHY the 2 groups exist. It does NOT describe why they fight and kill each other.

 

Look at the Troubles in Ireland. On the face of it, it's a Catholic-Protestant conflict... but you can't go back and say "this conflict has its roots in the Reformation. The Catholics believe the pope should be the bigwig, while the Protestants think the king should be the bigwig or that there should be a committee of bigwigs."

 

yes that describes the difference between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, but not why they fought. Religion is just a marker used to identify the two sides...The roots of the conflict lie completely outside religion. Ultimately the Irish tragedy had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with English colonialism, Irish self-determination, land, political power... the same is really true for Shia and Sunni factions

The majority of Shia and Sunni are killing each other. FACT. And the jews are looking on and rubbing their hands in glee OPINION

 

When you see two groups with different beliefs siding with their brothers and sisters and killing the other side then you can only put it down to religion. Sure land and politics and resources play a massive part but their main difference is Religion. In the case of Sunni and Shia it is without any doubt their belief that divides them.

[Quinn]

This is straight out of wiki....

 

Sunni and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. The demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that 80–90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10–20% are Shia,^[1][2] with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between several other groups.^[1]

Sunnis are a majority in most Muslim communities: in South East Asia, China, South Asia, Africa, and some of the Arab world. Shia make up the majority of the citizen population in Iran, Iraq and Bahrain, as well as being a politically significant minority in Lebanon. Azerbaijan is predominantly Shia, however practicing adherents are much lower.^[3] Pakistan has the second-largest Shia Muslim (Twelver) population in the world.

The historic background of the Sunni–Shia split lies in the schism that occurred when the Islamic prophet Muhammad died in the year 632, leading to a dispute over succession to Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community spread across various parts of the world which led to the Battle of Siffin. The dispute intensified greatly after the Battle of Karbala, in which Hussein ibn Ali and his household were killed by the ruling Sunni Caliph Yazid I, and the outcry for his revenge divided the early Islamic community. Today there are differences in religious practice, traditions and customs, often related to jurisprudence. Although all Muslim groups consider the Quran to be divine, Sunni and Shia have different opinions on hadith.

Over the years, Sunni–Shia relations have been marked by both cooperation and conflict. Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East.^[4][5] Tensions between communities have intensified during power struggles, such as the Bahraini uprising, the Iraq War, and most recently the Syrian civil war.^[6][7][8]

[Era Might]

Have you ever read political comments online? Some of the most vicious, hateful things you will ever read come from secularists, often against religious people.

[Maggyie]

This is straight out of wiki....

 

Sunni and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. The demographic breakdown between the two denominations is difficult to assess and varies by source, but a good approximation is that 80–90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10–20% are Shia,^[1][2] with most Shias belonging to the Twelver tradition and the rest divided between several other groups.^[1]

Sunnis are a majority in most Muslim communities: in South East Asia, China, South Asia, Africa, and some of the Arab world. Shia make up the majority of the citizen population in Iran, Iraq and Bahrain, as well as being a politically significant minority in Lebanon. Azerbaijan is predominantly Shia, however practicing adherents are much lower.^[3] Pakistan has the second-largest Shia Muslim (Twelver) population in the world.

The historic background of the Sunni–Shia split lies in the schism that occurred when the Islamic prophet Muhammad died in the year 632, leading to a dispute over succession to Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community spread across various parts of the world which led to the Battle of Siffin. The dispute intensified greatly after the Battle of Karbala, in which Hussein ibn Ali and his household were killed by the ruling Sunni Caliph Yazid I, and the outcry for his revenge divided the early Islamic community. Today there are differences in religious practice, traditions and customs, often related to jurisprudence. Although all Muslim groups consider the Quran to be divine, Sunni and Shia have different opinions on hadith.

Over the years, Sunni–Shia relations have been marked by both cooperation and conflict. Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East.^[4][5] Tensions between communities have intensified during power struggles, such as the Bahraini uprising, the Iraq War, and most recently the Syrian civil war.^[6][7][8]

 

First of all wiki is never a good source, always better to cite legit scholarship. But I know it's not always easy to find a paper on the Internet let alone dig through it to get the right quotes.

 

But even this wiki entry doesn't go into the modern causes of conflict. The reason the two groups exist as separate entities is because of a conflict that occurred in 632. But what makes you believe that this conflict is what is driving violence a thousand years later? Isn't it more likely that the long ago division between these groups has been subsumed into what wiki glosses over as "power struggles."? Read more about the Syrian civil war, the role of the Alawites etc. Is it about religion or is it about identity politics, about how majorities fear minorities and vice versa? 

 

"It's religion causing it" is honestly a very superficial analysis. It's inadequate analysis such as this that leads to obstacles in resolving these conflicts - luckily those involved in diplomacy and statecraft do not often over-simplify this way.

[Quinn]

lmao really... But all written material is ONLINE right? and all political comments in the real world end up online but they're just far more direct and to the point.

 

The internet is a mirror for the real world we live in.

 

Have you read the old testament. It's the main influence behind the New Testament. There's far less hate in the "pink fluffy" version but it's still hate all the same.

 

You can read the bibles online ;)

[MithLuin]

You can read a lot of things online.

 

 

For instance, I'd like to address point #3 in your list above.

 

Clearly, you're not watching the right films and TV shows.

 

Some examples (neither Disney nor CG to keep inline with your restrictions):

 

1) Dogma

 

God is played by Alanis Morrissette.

 

2) The Ten Commandments

 

True, it's only a voice.  But God in this film is voiced by Charlton Heston (with sound effects).

 

3)  Monty Python's Holy Grail

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhLDo09D68

 

Okay, okay, so I suppose that's animation...sorta...but it ain't CGI, and it's not Disney.

 

4) Joan of Arcadia

 

In which God is played by a whole host of actors, changing each episode, mostly.

 

5)  Bruce Almighty

 

 

Morgan Freeman as God.  Who wouldn't trust what this guy says?

 

 

 

And, of course, there's a wiki page for this.  No, really.  Check it out:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrayals_of_God_in_popular_media

 

[HisChildForever]

Q: Is religion on a downward slippery slope?

 

A: Not as long as there's gents like you willing to perpetuate conversation on religion.

[Quinn]

Maggie

Newspapers are the worst source of information to be honest. They're all owned by the same corporation, even Al Jazeera. The only true journalism is investigative journalism and thanks to the internet it's on the rise. It's on the rise very quickly indeed. Woohoo. The internet is now the best source of information but only if you research over and over again and sift through the BS. I have looked at hundreds of sources of information and they all share wikis' view. In fact, the whole idea of wiki is to share ideas. It's technically a closed think tank. Think tanks normally drive to the real truth that newspapers have skewed and hidden from the general public..

 

I've also acquired a bit of knowledge through my career. First in publications, then as a voluntary cameraman and then when I worked alongside the 16th air assault here in the U.K. All my friends share my views and it's not hard to find out what's really going on when you look in the right places and talk to the right people.

 

Wiki has hit the nail on the head with that and if you don't believe me then look at the links further. It's real history not the mad ramblings of a bored 12 year old internet troll.

 

ps. I've found the bold button :)

 

Hischildforever

lol ok then......Shh

 

[Quinn]

Maggie

Newspapers are the worst source of information to be honest. They're all owned by the same corporation, even Al Jazeera. The only true journalism is investigative journalism and thanks to the internet it's on the rise. It's on the rise very quickly indeed. Woohoo. The internet is now the best source of information but only if you research over and over again and sift through the BS. I have looked at hundreds of sources of information and they all share wikis' view. In fact, the whole idea of wiki is to share ideas. It's technically a closed think tank. Think tanks normally drive to the real truth that newspapers have skewed and hidden from the general public..

 

I've also acquired a bit of knowledge through my career. First in publications, then as a voluntary cameraman and then when I worked alongside the 16th air assault here in the U.K. All my friends share my views and it's not hard to find out what's really going on when you look in the right places and talk to the right people.

 

Wiki has hit the nail on the head with that and if you don't believe me then look at the links further. It's real history not the mad ramblings of a bored 12 year old internet troll.

 

ps. I've found the bold button :)

 

Hischildforever

lol ok then......Shh

 

[Quinn]

Maggie

Newspapers are the worst source of information to be honest. They're all owned by the same corporation, even Al Jazeera. The only true journalism is investigative journalism and thanks to the internet it's on the rise. It's on the rise very quickly indeed. Woohoo. The internet is now the best source of information but only if you research over and over again and sift through the BS. I have looked at hundreds of sources of information and they all share wikis' view. In fact, the whole idea of wiki is to share ideas. It's technically a closed think tank. Think tanks normally drive to the real truth that newspapers have skewed and hidden from the general public..

 

I've also acquired a bit of knowledge through my career. First in publications, then as a voluntary cameraman and then when I worked alongside the 16th air assault here in the U.K. All my friends share my views and it's not hard to find out what's really going on when you look in the right places and talk to the right people.

 

Wiki has hit the nail on the head with that and if you don't believe me then look at the links further. It's real history not the mad ramblings of a bored 12 year old internet troll.

 

ps. I've found the bold button :)

 

Hischildforever

lol ok then......Shh

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The biblical definition of religion is to minister the widow and orphan, feed and clothe the poor. Whats wrong with that quinn? And as far as i'm aware most christians are also interested in science to some degree, it is a compulsory subject in catholic schools of Australia. But the media i do not like when it proclaims a scientific discovery as a scientific proof when it is only in it's testing phase and not proven to be 100% fact. There are many so called scientific truths sold as facts that are scientific theory,there is a difference, even evolution of man from an ape still has to many missing links and can't be proven without a doubt, yet many believe it to be fact. But i guess everyone needs something to believe in, even athiests. 

 

 

Onwards christian souls.

Jesus is Lord.

 

JC "seek and you will find."

 

P.s. I'm not against science and i'm a christian catholic, science is always seeking the origin of things, the truth about many things, i just don't like theory being sold as the truth before it is proven.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Quinn]

How can theory be sold as truth when it's theory. Look up the definition of theory. I do get what your saying though but he or she would be a very poor scientist if they call a theory a fact. If a scientist puts forward a theory then says this is the Truth, period, then he or she is normally ridiculed.

 

You mention Australia. Yeh, that covers the whole population then does it? lmao

 

As for the biblical definition of Religion. Are you talking for all religion. Even Islam?

 

Have you heard about those ancient Byzantine codices that were found hidden in the vaults of st catherine's mount sinai. The British library held a discussion that they go a long way to prove that Christianity, Judaism and Islam is all of the same religion.

[Quinn]

 Before you ask me to go hunting for you, look for yourself. It's a British library pod cast

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The media does the selling and the people be doing the believing. So you believe in science, this is ok, nothing intrinsically wrong with that. What else do you believe in ? Do you believe in faithfulness between family,friends and/or partner, do you believe in hope, and do you believe in love(even if you just love the sunset or the stars.) ? 

[Quinn]

I believe in being honest with oneself, and also with kith and kin. Nothing to do with being religious.

 

I believe science ( not theory) 100% whereas you very likely believe and trust in science to bring you your weather reports. To keep you entertained. To keep you and your family healthy. To bring down the price of your food. To keep you driving your car. To improve the standard of your living. To take you to foreign lands. To enable you to see things the micro and macro.

 

Problem in ALL you theist trust in science everyday in everything you do but when it comes to the existence of god then science can go burn in hell.

 

Kind of childish, warped and hypocritical don't you think?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

ok believing in honesty is a good thing. One thing I've learnt personally, is that honesty doesn't always make me right, even though i practice honesty.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Quinn]

Going back to the OP it is very hard to figure out if religion will survive. But I do know the internet will always be around and it seems to me that wherever you look online religion is bashed and ridiculed and exposed. Logic will prevail and hopefully organised religion will fade away to nothing more than a group of old men sitting in a cave, warming their hands around a camp fire, trying to figure out what went wrong.

[Winchester]

The internet will not always be around.

 

I thought you supported science.

[Lil Red]

The strongest religion in the world is currently Statism. I think it will survive many years.

 

props.