Calibacy For Priests - Vatican Secretary Of State

[Aloysius]

Give up Era, give in to the world. At that's left is a puny idea for you, and hasn't the world already demonstrated that it's false? What confidence do you have in the Bible? What certainty that the Christ you have in your mind was the historical Christ? There is no meaning to this life, so just give in, and eventually you will realize the meaninglessness of it is also meaningless.

woah, come on now Wormwood, didn't Screwtape teach you better than to be so direct and transparent? 

[Apotheoun]

. . . some people just can't seem to see that forest for the clowns.

There is still a parish in my area that has a "clown ministry."

[Aloysius]

when I ask if you can see the forest for the clowns, I am acknowledging the existence of the clowns, but there are many other good and growing trees in the forest too.

[Apotheoun]

when I ask if you can see the forest for the clowns, I am acknowledging the existence of the clowns, but there are many other good and growing trees in the forest too.

I know. I was just pointing out that a parish that is a ten minute drive from my house still has clown masses. I - of course - have avoided that parish like the plague after its pastor many years ago gave a homily where he said adultery was not always wrong. So I do not get to personally experience the clown ministry.

[Apotheoun]

I also avoid another parish in my general area that blesses "homosexual friendships." Strangely enough when Bishop Vigneron was reassigned several years ago Rome made the pastor of that parish the administrator of the diocese until the new bishop was chosen and installed a few months later.

[Era Might]

Did he become a fornicator? Did he become an idolater? It is like when St. Paul said that all men sinned, well Christ was a man and He didn't sin. I think St. Paul would agree that he did not become a liar or a thief for all men in order to win them for Christ.   :evil:

 

There has never been an agreed upon way of living together as Christians in the world. It has always been an experiment filled with tension, sin, ambition, purification, re-considering, etc. For any kind of new Christian civilization to be born, it won't happen by trying to resurrect old narratives all over again.

[Apotheoun]

There has never been an agreed upon way of living together as Christians in the world. It has always been an experiment filled with tension, sin, ambition, purification, re-considering, etc. For any kind of new Christian civilization to be born, it won't happen by trying to resurrect old narratives all over again.

I don't agree. Scripture is clear about the things that should be avoided in living the Christian life, and the things that Christians should do, and which make Christians unique as the people of God. It seems that we approach being Christian differently, because I approach the faith theologically while you appear to approach it sociologically. 

[Era Might]

I don't agree. Scripture is clear about the things that should be avoided in living the Christian life, and the things that Christians should do, and which make Christians unique as the people of God. It seems that we approach being Christian differently, because I approach the faith theologically while you appear to approach it sociologically. 

 

Yes, I have a nasty vice of not being able to abandon my mind, and the damnable heresy of using it.

[Apotheoun]

Yes, I have a nasty vice of not being able to abandon my mind, and the damnable heresy of using it.

Well, you need to experience kenosis, which does involve abandoning your mind for the mind of Christ.

[Era Might]

Well, you need to experience kenosis, which does involve abandoning your mind for the mind of Christ.

 

I have no quarrel with the mind of Christ. The minds of men, on the other hand, get no special courtesy.

[Apotheoun]

I have no quarrel with the mind of Christ. The minds of men, on the other hand, get no special courtesy.

And yet you seem incapable of agreeing that there is any specific way of being Christian, even though scripture and tradition give us the way of life, as opposed to the way of death, which the world provides.

[Era Might]

And yet you seem incapable of agreeing that there is any specific way of being Christian, even though scripture and tradition give us the way of life, as opposed to the way of death, which the world provides.

 

There is one way, and that is Christ, who lives in every stranger.

[Apteka]

And yet you seem incapable of agreeing that there is any specific way of being Christian, even though scripture and tradition give us the way of life, as opposed to the way of death, which the world provides.

 

Everything is relative, there is no "right" way

[Apotheoun]

There is one way, and that is Christ, who lives in every stranger.

And this one way in Orthodoxy is known by holding fast to the liturgy of the Church, which even has primacy over the hierarchy of the Church, for the bishops are merely the servants of Christ and the worship of God that He initiated at the Last Supper and brought to completion upon the altar of the Cross. How do I know what must be done or what must be avoided? I know it because the Church hymns the way of life during her worship. Do I find this one way by doing what I desire? No, I find it by holding fast to the living Body of Christ, which pre-existed my own pitiful being, and which provides me with God's deifying energy through the celebration of the holy mysteries. I must be conformed to Christ, and that can only happen by emptying myself in adoration of the divine glory, and by becoming one with the Church in worship. 

Edited September 14, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Era Might]

And this one way in Orthodoxy is known by holding fast to the liturgy of the Church, which even has primacy over the hierarchy of the Church, for the bishops are merely the servants of Christ and the worship of God that He initiated at the Last Supper and brought to completion upon the altar of the Cross. How do I know what must be done or what must be avoided? I know it because the Church hymns the way of life during her worship. Do I find this one way by doing what I desire? No, I find it by holding fast to the living Body of Christ, which pre-existed my own pitiful being, and which provides me with God's deifying energy through the celebration of the holy mysteries. I must be conformed to Christ, and that can only happen by emptying myself in adoration of the divine glory, and by becoming one with the Church in worship. 

 

That's the Orthodox experience, but I am not Orthodox and have no plans to become Orthodox. And I do not believe I need to become Orthodox to know the mind of Christ.