Our Freedom

[Julie de Sales]

I found this idea interesting: God lets you choose your husband if you are ment to get married but He's the one who chooses for you a certain congregation/religious community if you are called to religious life. Maybe some of you have different opinions that I would like to hear :) Before, I used to think that somewhere in this world God had picked up a spouse for us and we that have to trust He will put him in our way when the time comes. It's a little bit romantic to believe this and if I'm not mistaken Sheiscatholic once made a video where she supported this point of view. However, I heard other people/priests say that the one you are supposed to marry is the one that you choose for yourself, after a time of discernment, of course. That in marriage the goal is not to find "the one" or "the perfect husband/wife" and that there isn't such a thing. 

 

On the other hand, religious life is the place where God has to approve our choice. We may like a certain community, want to be part of a congregation that we prefer, but always the question "but is it God's will also?" emerges. Perhaps we don't feel as free in joining a religious community than in choosing a husband. And God seems to have very clear ideas as to where He wants us. I remember reading that St Faustina, after entering in her congregation, wanted to leave and find another one where sisters would pray more, but then Jesus appeared to her covered by wounds and when St Faustina asked what had caused them, He said that she will be the cause of His suffering if she would leave that community. So, not much freedom in that...

 

Of course, we may say that the will of God is what brings us true peace and this it's just an apparent obligation/lack of freedom. But wouldn't be much more easy to say "I like this community and I will join it, without asking myself a hundred questions and trying to hear the voice of God who sometimes  speaks too softly to understand and asking who knows how many signs of agreement?" To know that whatever we choose God would still approve...

 

 

[EmilyAnn]

I would argue that there is not a "The One" in religious communities any more than there is in marriage. You make a choice to enter a certain religious community just as you make a choice to marry a certain person. Just as there are multiple people you could have a happy marriage with, for those with a religious vocation I have no doubt there are multiple communities one could be happy in.

 

In a marriage, it's not just you making a decision, there are two people involved. In religious life, it's not just you and God. The choice is made by you and by the community. I think some people forget that religious life is not perfect. There are fallible, imperfect human beings involved. It's not a case of "okay, I think God is calling me here" and the community goes "yup, come on in". Those people involved in the choice can make mistakes and make bad decisions. 

 

People (especially women, let's face it) are drawn to the romantic idea of "The One". Those discerning religious life are not except from the draw of romance - so a religious community becomes "The One" rather than another person. While romance is not in and of itself a bad thing, it is easy (especially with religious life) to get caught up in it. 

[freedomreigns]

It seems that the will of God in the question, :"Should I marry this particular person?" would be important to the Christian seeking to do His Will in all things.  As Christians we shouldn't just make individual choices without first discerning them according to God's Will.  The rules for discernment of spirits of St. Ignatius operate on the principle that we can seek the will of God for specific decisions.

[Fr. Antony Maria OSB]

I actually struggled with this a lot (in a slightly different manner than you laid out) in my own discernment of religious life. When I was studying abroad in college, I had the opportunity to go to Subiaco (where St. Benedict lived as a hermit for three years and where one of his earliest monasteries was after he stopped being a hermit). For a while, I had been going back and forth between the Marians of the Immaculate Conception and the Benedictines, and when I was praying in Sacro Speco (the cave St. Benedict lived in), I had this overwhelming sense of peace, followed by the thought, 'I am not called to be a Benedictine.' Freedomreigns mentioned Ignatius' rules of discernment: one of the things Ignatius talks about (if my memory serves me correctly), is that peace is a sign of the working of the Holy Spirit. As such, when I experienced that peace followed by that thought, my reaction was, 'well, that about does it, then! Benedictine life is not for me!' (Perhaps a bit rushed, especially considering how things worked out, haha). Fast forward two-ish years, and I'm in the summer going into my senior year of college. I'm still struggling with the Marian vs. Benedictine dilemma. I loved everything about the Benedictines, but I had that experience in Subiaco, and something just didn't sit right with the Marians (don't get me wrong: a GREAT order! Just didn't seem right for me). I went to see a movie one night (Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon :) ), and afterwards I was praying about this, and it hit me: what had I been striving to do since I started my discernment? Seek God and help others do the same. What does the Abbot ask the postulant during the ceremony which begins the novitiate? "What do you seek?" What does the novice reply? "I seek God and fellowship in this community." That's when it hit me: I was not called to be a Benedictine, because, ultimately, what I was/am called to do is to seek God and, by extension, help others do the same. Where I do that is secondary. If that means being a Benedictine, go for it. If that means being a Marian, go for it. If that means being married, go for it. If that means being x, y, or z, go for it. Seek God first: that is how one becomes holy. The road we take to holiness is secondary.

 

So I'd say we definitely have freedom. On a very practical level, one of the important factors in making vows is that the person NEEDS to make them of their own free will, and were not coerced into them in any way: it's part of the vow chart that one reads during the vow ceremony (for both simple and solemn vows!). Sometimes I wonder why I didn't discern more thoroughly with the Discalced Carmelites, but I made the decision not to follow through with them, for no particular reason: there was no lightening bolt moment there: I just did not follow through. Now I'm a Benedictine seminarian (who should be studying for classes tomorrow.......)

 

One last point; I completely agree with what Emilyann said about the community also discerns whether or not the candidate is a good fit for them. It's always a two way street: as Catholics, we never do anything separated from the Mystical Body of Christ (not even hermits!) We are truly united with one another and the Communion of Saints: it is truly a beautiful thing.

 

God bless!

Br. Antony

[maximillion]

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

Without wishing to be contentious, I have difficulty with your opening statement Julie...'God lets you chose a husband.......... but He's the one who chooses a religious community if you are called to religious life'

 

What an interesting notion,

 

God lets us make all our own choices - otherwise that is not freedom!

We are free to choose what He wants of us - whatever our vocation, free to choose X or Y potential husband, free to choose X or Y community.

The notion that God is somehow more 'directive' in relation to someone pursuing a vocation to the life in religion than He is with someone who is getting married is IMO a mis-statement of the case. I am sure there are as many stories of people experiencing God's hand in their choice of marriage partner as there are of people experiencing His Hand in their choice of community, in fact if an awareness of the working of the Spirit was not present in BOTH cases I would be a little perturbed.

 

 

[Julie de Sales]

Maybe I went too far in my reasoning...however, it seems to me that people are not as concerned in knowing the will of God when it comes to choosing a husband/wife than they are in entering a certain religious community. 

[AccountDeleted]

Maybe I went too far in my reasoning...however, it seems to me that people are not as concerned in knowing the will of God when it comes to choosing a husband/wife than they are in entering a certain religious community. 

 

 

Actually you have a point there. And if you get engaged but then break it off, you probably don't get people telling you that you aren't following the will of God, but your own will :p

[maximillion]

Ah, yes, that I can relate too!!!

 

People thought it incumbent upon them to say the most extraordinary things to me when I left the convent, more so since I had made Vows and been there a long time.

 

Just goes to show what reaches the secularisation of society has, that people do not consider how important is His Will in their vocation as a married person and you are right Julie, It is of equal importance.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Fr Cappie once said something like this ( and these are not his exact words except the bit "the will of God is simply that you trust him.") He said something along these lines and i agree, " People are forever searching,which career,which football team etc as being the will of God for them, but the will of God is simply that you trust him."

I would add to that that when you do trust him then his plan for your life unfolds. I think some people may get the will of God and the Plan of God confused. You need both but the trust must come first, but simply what i discerned from what fr cappie said is that when you do the will of God it means you trust God and then overtime he will unveil his plan. This is probably a poor discernment of a one liner of fr cappie and if somone can reveal the exact homily he gave this in then you all can read the whole lot.

 

Hope that helps.

 

God bless.

Jesus iz Lord.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye