Abandoned Churches Are Still Beautiful

[Nunsense]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/abandoned-churches_n_3954972.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

 

Here is just a sample (more on the link)

 

An abandoned church in Pennsylvania is filled with construction detritus below the graceful arches.

 

 

Though the stained glass still shines brightly, this Pennsylvania church is in a sad state of disrepair.

 

An abandoned Catholic school in France

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

wonderful, hopefully someone rich renovates them and uses them as a hall,museum,art house or something.

[Quietfire]

They're closing churches around here too.

So sad.

[arfink]

Do you have sources on these images? I want more. ^_^

[Aloysius]

they're on the huffington post article, and there are more there.

[Apotheoun]

They're closing churches around here too.

So sad.

Don't be sad, this is just one of the enormous fruits of the post-Conciliar era.

[arfink]

Don't be sad, this is just one of the enormous fruits of the post-Conciliar era.

 

And certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that many rural areas in the US (and probably abroad) are becoming completely destitute. Nope. Nothing at all.

 

EDIT: The huffpo article doesn't give more details. That makes me sad.

Edited September 29, 2013 by arfink

[AnneLine]

Article does give states and countries, and a few cities, but not much more than that.

 

Around here EVERY closed church becomes a new venue for the Academy of Art College.... I guess they can use the display space and public venues, but sheesh it makes me sad...

 

Most of our churches closed NOT because of changed demographics, but because of the reality of living in an earthquake zone; after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, archdiocese ordered ALL of the churches to either retrofit or abandon the buildings.  Some of our most beautiful churches were locked because they lacked reinforcement to their masonry... My parish was spared ONLY because we were able to raise $8 million (and it ended up closer to $11 million with inflation... and then they found out about the $10 million we'd need for window and roof repair. 

 

Sigh. 

 

Buildings are like people... around age 80, they need some major joint work.....

 

 

 

[Apotheoun]

And certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that many rural areas in the US (and probably abroad) are becoming completely destitute. Nope. Nothing at all.

 

EDIT: The huffpo article doesn't give more details. That makes me sad.

No, I guess it doesn't, which is why lots of Churches have closed in San Francisco and other urban and suburban areas.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Sadly, a lot of the Churches pictured in the article are a lot prettier than the Churches that have remained open in the Diocese of Oakland.

[AnneLine]

Apotheon, respectfully, I don't think you are exactly playing fair.   I know you aren't enamoured of the Oakland diocese (to say the least!) but it isn't OK to act like all the parishes in Oakland are disaster areas, either!   Some parishes have closed, some of the churches are ugly... but I bet that is true the world over!   I saw some churches in Rome that really horrified me!

 

I can't speak for the Oakland diocese on this, but I do know what is going on in the San Francisco archdiocese regarding combining/closing/leaving open various parishes.  The churches that were closed and merged in San Francisco had largely to do with either the demographics having moved around such that there were Churches with congregations of 100 or less persons just a few blocks from others that were viable.  Often the buildings the were abandoned (St. Joseph, St. Brigid, Sacred Heart in San Francisco) were unreinforced masonry structures (UMS) that were deemed UNSAFE unless earthquake retrofitted.  (and that danger wasn't just a myth, btw... St. Dominic's tower fell into a busy street and part of its roof crashed in in Loma Prieta...it was closed for MONTHS and nearly was demolished)  Parishes that could NOT afford to do that couldn't keep the buildings open.  There were people who weren't happy with that decision, but that was the reality.  There were several other parishes that kept their beautiful, older, UMS buildings, but the price tag was about $8-$10 MILLION to fix each one.  St. Paul (the Church used in Sister Act), St. Dominic and I believe St. Vincent de Paul all had to have that kind of retrofitting.   St. Mary's Cathedral SF in my mind is ugly, but it was built after the old one burned down on my birthday in 1963.  The archbishop at that time liked Japanese architecture, and wanted a Cathedral that would withstand earthquakes... so he based the new plans on St. Mary's in Kyoto Japan.  I don't like the building, but it is a beautiful building if you like modern architecture, and a very respectful place in which to worship.  In much the same way, I may think that St. Thomas More is one of the ugliest churches I have ever seen... but the parish is vigorous, and the location is excellent.  It serves not only the usual Roman parish, but also is a hub for the Burmese Catholics, the Arab Catholics, and as the Newman Center for SF State University.  It's also right next to a huge retirement place, and has a ton of parking.  It made more sense to have this building kept, even if it is ugly.  (I would be the first to suggest donating them a few million so they could build a prettier Church!!!!)

 

St. Francis de Sales Cathedral in Oakland had to be demolished due to 1989 earthquake damage.   A lot of the older Church buildings are still being used there, but the city is one of the poorest in the country, and it doesn't surprise me if churches/parishes are being combined and closed.  I know of a friend who attends a beautiful old Church within that city.  It is poor, and the congregation is VERY poor... but God is loved in that building, and it shows.  

 

I will also give you that their new cathedral is super-ugly... as is the one in LA. 

 

Not all new Church architecture is inspired!

[AnneLine]

Interesting article about several SF Churches (Catholic and other denominations) with this problem....

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/assignment_7&id=8832147&pt=print

 

and check out the video in the same article through this link:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8832146&pid=8832147

 

Edited September 29, 2013 by AnneLine

[Apotheoun]

Apotheon, respectfully, I don't think you are exactly playing fair.   I know you aren't enamoured of the Oakland diocese (to say the least!) but it isn't OK to act like all the parishes in Oakland are disaster areas, either!   Some parishes have closed, some of the churches are ugly... but I bet that is true the world over!   I saw some churches in Rome that really horrified me!

 

The vast majority are quite ugly, and I say this as a person who has actually visited some 30 parish in the diocese over the 25 years that I have been Catholic. Are there a some nice ones? Yes, St. Catherine of Sienna parish in Martinez is rather lovely looking, but it is not representative of the majority of parishes.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Interesting article about several SF Churches (Catholic and other denominations) with this problem....

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/assignment_7&id=8832147&pt=print

 

and check out the video in the same article through this link:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8832146&pid=8832147

The Archdiocese of San Francisco, unlike the Diocese of Oakland, still has a large number of magnificent Churches, and I have a attended liturgy at many of them (St. Cecilia's, St. Dominic's, Star of the Sea, the parish of St. Charles Borromeo, St. Patrick's, Notre Dame de Victoire, St. Ignatius', the historic parish of Mission Dolores, the Convent of Cristo Rey, etc.). Sadly, many of the Churches in the Oakland Diocese have been built since Vatican II, and the older parishes - probably the vast majority of them - have been remodeled over the course of the last 40 years.

[Apotheoun]

The parish closest to my house looks - since it was remodeled a few years ago - a lot like the Walnut Creek United Methodist Church of my youth.

[Apotheoun]

Most of our churches closed NOT because of changed demographics, but because of the reality of living in an earthquake zone; after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, archdiocese ordered ALL of the churches to either retrofit or abandon the buildings.  Some of our most beautiful churches were locked because they lacked reinforcement to their masonry... My parish was spared ONLY because we were able to raise $8 million (and it ended up closer to $11 million with inflation... and then they found out about the $10 million we'd need for window and roof repair. 

Not because of demographics? I disagree. I have attended parishes in the San Francisco area for decades and attendance is down compared to the late 1980s. Did the earthquake bring about the closure of some Churches? Yes. But I would not describe the Catholic Church in San Francisco as healthy. Is it healthier than the Diocese of Oakland? Yes, but Mass attendance today is not what it was in the 80s.

[AnneLine]

I understand what you are saying.  

 

Many of the parishes within the Diocese of Oakland have been built in the suburbs in the 70's and 80's and 90's... and that is NOT an era well known for beautiful church architecture....   :console:  I actually like some of the buildings from the VERY early 1960's, but not much beyond that....

 

BUT the important thing is that God dwells there, yes?  And His People worship Him there?

 

And you are blessed to be able to go to the Dominican House of Studies, St. Albert's, which has a beautiful Church and services?

 

If you want a traditional liturgy, St. Margaret Mary's?

 

I'm sure there are good buildings and good liturgies if you look for them.  :)

 

~~~~ + ~~~~~

 

Actually the demographics of San Francisco HAVE changed, and the numbers of people in SF have dropped a lot in the last few years (not as much as in other large cities, but it still is a factor).  AND there are no longer any reasons to keep the French, German and Italian parishioners in separate parishes any longer... Archbishop Alemany in the 1800's had no choices, because the groups were at each other's throats... simply would NOT worship with each other, even when the services were in Latin.  ;) 

 

Mass attendance may not be what it was in the 1980s in some parishes, but the parish in which I am registered, St. Dominic's, has grown by leaps and bounds.  And the same with many of the parishes I frequent.   What has happened is that people are now encouraged to register at the parish that is not necessarily their geographical parish, but the one that helps them to worship best.  The parishes that have a strong liturgical base do well... especially if they combine it with solid formation and a good outreach to the poor or similar ministry.   The parishes that are super-poor are often supported by some of the richer parishes... enabling those with poor numbers but still a strong parish community to continue to exist when one might not expect they could do so.  And in a few places, closing and consolidating congregations has given the parishioners a new and thriving parish.  When St. Joseph's closed (the one highlighted in the video, btw...) they merged it with St. Patrick's about a mile away and only one block over.  They did it the right way, including having a big procession and carrying the beloved statues from St. Joseph's to their new home at St. Patrick's!

 

St. Patrick's had originally been built and paid for by Irish immigrants (might have guessed that!) but now it is almost exclusively a Filipino parish and parish utilized during the week by the working Catholic who work in the nearby downtown area.  It might look abandoned and unfilled on a weekend... but I can tell you it can be standing room only in there on major feast days.....during the work week.  And the masses are pretty full during the work week as well.  Sometimes you just don't see a parish unless you really attend it day-in-day out for a while....

 

~~~~ + ~~~~~

 

And speaking of good liturgies.. I am going to have to leave the computer soon to start traveling to Church!!!  Because of having to walk and then use 3 modes of transport to GET to St. Dominic's from here, I have to start a few hours before Mass.   It's worth it to me to go to a parish that has adoration, a good liturgy, and general is a good parish all around!

 

Will pray for you, Apo... and all of you!!!!

 

 

 

[Apotheoun]

Part of the reason for the merger of parishes in San Francisco is that the number of Catholics in the city has dropped by about 75,000 since 1990. I pray that the decline stops, but as a person born and raised in the SF Bay Area I know that the Church has an uphill battle in this bastion of political liberalism and religious indifferentism.

[Apotheoun]

And speaking of good liturgies.. I am going to have to leave the computer soon to start traveling to Church!!!  Because of having to walk and then use 3 modes of transport to GET to St. Dominic's from here, I have to start a few hours before Mass.   It's worth it to me to go to a parish that has adoration, a good liturgy, and general is a good parish all around!

I used to go to St. Dominic's all the time, because they had confessions on Sunday mornings. I also met Fr. Malady, who at the time was giving talks on Mariology at that parish in the 1990s.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Will pray for you, Apo... and all of you!!!!

Thanks! I will remember you in my prayers also. God bless.