Us Gov "shutdown" Appears Imminent

[KnightofChrist]

Obama is playing a game with us people, trying to scare us and play with our emotions.

 

Military Priests Face Arrest for Celebrating Mass in Defiance of Shutdown

 

Our Government is out of control.

 

First, it was the World War II veterans who had to break down barriers to see the open air, un-attended memorial erected in their honor.  A memorial which is on public land but is supported – including the National Park Service fee – with private funds. This week there was more security surrounding this memorial — just to keep elderly veterans out — than there was at our embassy in Benghazi the night it was attacked.

And for what? To inflict as much pain as possible through this government shutdown. It’s called Washington Monument Syndrome, and it’s pure political theater.

 

But now there’s a story just coming to light that takes things even further. According the Archdiocese for Military Services, GS and contract priests (who are paid by the federal government as independent contractors in places where there aren’t enough active-duty priests to meet the needs of Catholics in military service) are being forbidden from celebrating Mass, even on a volunteer basis.

If they violate this restriction, they face possible arrest. FOR CELEBRATING MASS. 

 

From John Schlageter, General Counsel for the Archdiocese:

 

This shutdown impacts Catholics in the military worldwide. In the DC-metro area, it specifically impacts bases like Quantico. On the Facebook page for the Archdiocese, Catholic military members commenting on the story are not happy. Comments include:

There is a chronic shortage of active duty Catholic chaplains. While roughly 25% of the military is Catholic, Catholic priests make up only about 8% of the chaplain corps. That means approximately 275,000 men and women in uniform, and their families, are served by only 234 active-duty priests.  The temporary solution to this shortage is to provide GS and contract priests.   These men are employed by the government to ensure that a priest is available when an active duty Catholic Chaplain is not present.  With the government shutdown, GS and contract priests who minister to Catholics on military bases worldwide are not permitted to work – not even to volunteer.  During the shutdown, it is illegal for them to minister on base and they risk being arrested if they attempt to do so.

 

As an example, if a Catholic family has a Baptism scheduled at the base chapel at Langley AFB this weekend, unless they can locate a priest who is not a GS or contract priest, they should consider it cancelled.   Likewise, a Marine who attends Sunday Mass at the Quantico Chapel will have to go elsewhere this weekend.  If you are a Catholic stationed in Japan or Korea and are served by a Contract or GS priest, unless you speak Korean or Japanese and can find a church nearby, then you have no choice but to go without Mass this weekend.  Until the Federal Government resumes normal operations, or an exemption is granted to contract or GS priests, Catholic services are indefinitely suspended at those worldwide installations served by contract and GS priests.

 

At a time when the military is considering alternative sources of funding for sporting events at the service academies, no one seems to be looking for funding to ensure the Free Exercise rights of Catholics in uniform. Why not?

 

“This is outrageous!!! Especially threatening them with arrest to voluntarily do their job.”

“Unbelievable! I was worried about this because our priest is contracted as well. It is bad enough to be furloughed but to not have a Mass to attend, is a real downer,”

“Just one example, a couple is getting married tomorrow at a large Air Force Base that is staffed by a Contract priest. That priest did all of their marriage prep, and has gotten to know the couple very well over the past few months. But with the shutdown, he cannot perform their wedding. Instead of the priest that the couple has come to know and love, an active duty priest has to be sent in to perform the wedding of two people who are strangers to him and he to them.”

” Is anyone up there going to start a protest?! A rosary ?!?!? A nice Catholic riot maybe?! PLEEEAAASSEEE?! SOMEONE?! ANYONE?! Any real Carholics out there?!!!!???!”

This is outrageous. It is a violation of the First Amendment. It is a prohibition of the free exercise of religion to order priests under penalty of arrest that they cannot volunteer their time to offer Mass to the faithful on base. This cannot be allowed to stand.

As of this writing, I have not yet received a response to my inquiry to the Archdiocese for Military Services as to what specific action steps we can take to get this problem addressed. Until we have a path to resolution, please share this story as widely as possible. Make people aware that Catholics serving our country are being forcibly denied access to the sacraments. These are the lengths the administration and the Democrats in Congress are willing to go to in order to continue inflicting as much pain as possible on the American people during the shutdown.

 

UPDATE – 10/4/2013 @ 12:34PM: I received a response from the Military Archdiocese. Mr. Schlageter writes with a correction and additional information from the original release:

There will be Mass at Quantico because of the terms of service of the contract for the priest at Quantico.  Nonetheless, 3 Masses have been cancelled at local Fort Belvoir.  I have been told but cannot confirm that Mass has been cancelled at the Navy yard.  In one situation a couple that is to be married at an Air Force Base this Saturday and did all of their preparation with a GS priest will now be married by an active duty priest who is being taken in from somewhere else.  This means that the priest that the couple got to know over the past few months will not be able to witness their marriage.  One priest in Virginia Beach will be celebrating Mass in a local park off base.

We are also learning that some chapel musicians will not be able to play at Sunday Mass during the furlough.

I think that the best thing people can do is to get the message out.  I would suggest that they contact their local members of Congress, but in those cases where parishes are located next to a military base that will not have Sunday Mass, that people be kind and welcoming to their military brothers and sisters and their families.

Please do contact your local member of Congress and welcome our service members into your parishes. And continue to spread the message about these restrictions.

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[CrossCuT]

When the government shuts down, it cuts out the low cost actions that don't involve killing people. All the killy parts of the government are still open. They will still blow your wife's head off if you cut a shotgun down below the magical permitted length. They will still burn children alive to save them from cults. They will still execute 16 year old boys who had a dad who was a terrorist.

 

But government is here to protect us.

 

Right.

 

Thats one of the most ignoramus, numskull thing Ive ever heard.

 

rotfl

[Winchester]

Thats one of the most ignoramus, numskull thing Ive ever heard.

 

rotfl

 

I wasn't aware the Federal government stopped the wars and its prohibition activities during the "shutdown".

 

Or perhaps you didn't recognize the references:

 

1. Ruby Ridge. An unarmed woman (well, she had an infant in her arms, but was well outside projectile vomiting range) was murdered by an FBI  sniper. Because her husband cut a shotgun down to an unapproved length.

 

2. A cult leader had unapproved firearms. The Government chose to attack the compound. In their assault, the building caught fire and the besieged children died. Collateral damage.

 

3. A 16 year old citizen of the United States was looking for his father. He was executed by drone missile.

[CrossCuT]

Makes total sense Winchester. 

A few stupid actions by stupid people justifies a broad sweeping juvenile analysis that our entire government likes to shoot mothers with babies in their hands. 

 

:winner:

[Nihil Obstat]

Makes total sense Winchester. 

A few stupid actions by stupid people justifies a broad sweeping juvenile analysis that our entire government likes to shoot mothers with babies in their hands. 

 

:winner:

Interesting. I did not know that all of the warfare carried out today and in the history of the US constitutes "a few stupid actions by stupid people". I figured that fits more within the criterion of actions representative of a completely morally corrupt group of oligarchs who claim to represent the entire United States.

[KnightofChrist]

PRUDEN: The cheap tricks of the game

 

The games politicians play: Barack Obama is having a lot of fun using the government shutdown to squeeze the public in imaginative ways. The point of the shutdown game is to see who can squeeze hardest, make the most pious speech and listen for the applause. It’s a variation on the grade-school ritual of “you show me yours, and I’ll show you mine.”

 

President Obama is not a bad poker player, but the man with all the chips always starts with the advantage (and he gets all the aces). He has closed Washington down as tight as he dares, emphasizing the trivial and the petty in making life as inconvenient as he can for the greatest number. It’s all in a noble cause, of course. Access to most of the memorials is limited, and often in curious ways. The Lincoln Memorial is easy to reach, with the streets around it remaining open. But the Martin Luther King Memorial is made difficult to reach, relegating it, you might say, to the back of the bus. Not very nice.

 

The Park Service appears to be closing streets on mere whim and caprice. The rangers even closed the parking lot at Mount Vernon, where the plantation home of George Washington is a favorite tourist destination. That was after they barred the new World War II Memorial on the Mall to veterans of World War II. But the government does not own Mount Vernon; it is privately owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies' Association. The ladies bought it years ago to preserve it as a national memorial. The feds closed access to the parking lots this week, even though the lots are jointly owned with the Mount Vernon ladies. The rangers are from the government, and they’re only here to help.

 

“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/pruden-the-cheap-tricks-of-the-game/#ixzz2gmKoTUH3
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[CrossCuT]

He cited 3 specific incidents (of which I can only trust are true since he offered no external links) so how does that justify the argument that the entire government is a corrupt institution that likes to burn children and shoot mothers??

 

I dont even know why we are putting these situations up as evidence. Its nonsensical. 

[Nihil Obstat]

He cited 3 specific incidents (of which I can only trust are true since he offered no external links) so how does that justify the argument that the entire government is a corrupt institution that likes to burn children and shoot mothers??

 

I dont even know why we are putting these situations up as evidence. Its nonsensical. 

All you want is more examples? We can do that. Off the top of my head, My Lai, Kent State, Waco. Wait, did he mention Waco? HIroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Berlin, Kobe, Osaka, No Gun Ri, etc..

[Winchester]

Makes total sense Winchester. 

A few stupid actions by stupid people justifies a broad sweeping juvenile analysis that our entire government likes to shoot mothers with babies in their hands. 

 

:winner:

Which prison did the murderer go to?

 

And the point was that the government will not shut down the operations that consist of violence. Parks? Yes. Kill machine? No. Speaks volumes to me about the nature of the State.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Winchester

[havok579257]

 

PRUDEN: The cheap tricks of the game

 

The games politicians play: Barack Obama is having a lot of fun using the government shutdown to squeeze the public in imaginative ways. The point of the shutdown game is to see who can squeeze hardest, make the most pious speech and listen for the applause. It’s a variation on the grade-school ritual of “you show me yours, and I’ll show you mine.”

 

President Obama is not a bad poker player, but the man with all the chips always starts with the advantage (and he gets all the aces). He has closed Washington down as tight as he dares, emphasizing the trivial and the petty in making life as inconvenient as he can for the greatest number. It’s all in a noble cause, of course. Access to most of the memorials is limited, and often in curious ways. The Lincoln Memorial is easy to reach, with the streets around it remaining open. But the Martin Luther King Memorial is made difficult to reach, relegating it, you might say, to the back of the bus. Not very nice.

 

The Park Service appears to be closing streets on mere whim and caprice. The rangers even closed the parking lot at Mount Vernon, where the plantation home of George Washington is a favorite tourist destination. That was after they barred the new World War II Memorial on the Mall to veterans of World War II. But the government does not own Mount Vernon; it is privately owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies' Association. The ladies bought it years ago to preserve it as a national memorial. The feds closed access to the parking lots this week, even though the lots are jointly owned with the Mount Vernon ladies. The rangers are from the government, and they’re only here to help.

 

“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/pruden-the-cheap-tricks-of-the-game/#ixzz2gmKoTUH3
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

 

 

 

Here is the thing about the way things are done right now with the shut down.  Your for republicans using this tactic of government shutdown to get what they believe is the moral thing.  So would you also be ok with democrats using this same tactic 5 years from now to get sweeping gun control?  Not saying you support gun control but you would be supporting democrats ability to use this tactic to get sweeping gun control.  If your not for them using this same tactic for things they believe is morally right, then its hypocritical of you.  If your in full support of democrats using this same tactic for sweeping gun control in 5 years, then your not being hypocritical.  So do you support democrats using this same shutdown tactic to pass something they believe is morally right?

[havok579257]

Which prison did the murderer go to?

 

And the point was that the government will not shut down the operations that consist of violence. Parks? Yes. Kill machine? No. Speaks volumes to me about the nature of the State.

 

 

Lets not derail this topic with more arguments for anarchy capitalism ok.  If you don't like the current form of government either move away or run for congress and get the government changed to what you believe is moral.  Although either way, let's not derail this topic, ok?

[KnightofChrist]

Here is the thing about the way things are done right now with the shut down.  Your for republicans using this tactic of government shutdown to get what they believe is the moral thing.  So would you also be ok with democrats using this same tactic 5 years from now to get sweeping gun control?  Not saying you support gun control but you would be supporting democrats ability to use this tactic to get sweeping gun control.  If your not for them using this same tactic for things they believe is morally right, then its hypocritical of you.  If your in full support of democrats using this same tactic for sweeping gun control in 5 years, then your not being hypocritical.  So do you support democrats using this same shutdown tactic to pass something they believe is morally right?

 

I would not support the same tactic to be used for sweeping gun control, only because I do not support sweeping gun control. But I would agree that Congress, both houses, would still have the Constitutional power of the purse. If the Democrats wanted to defund or delay a pro-gun law they could, but I wouldn't support it. I also do not see how the same tactic would work for them, there are no pro-gun laws that are comparable to Obamacare. I don't see any law that forces citizens by the mere fact that they exist to buy a gun.

Edited October 4, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Winchester]

Lets not derail this topic with more arguments for anarchy capitalism ok.  If you don't like the current form of government either move away or run for congress and get the government changed to what you believe is moral.  Although either way, let's not derail this topic, ok?

This is an excellent time to point out the nature of our government. I didn't call for anarchism, I just pointed out the nature of the criminal syndicate.

[Winchester]

I would not support the same tactic to be used for sweeping gun control, only because I do not support sweeping gun control. But I would agree that Congress, both houses, would still have the Constitutional power of the purse. If the Democrats wanted to defund or delay a pro-gun law they could, but I wouldn't support it. I also do not see how the same tactic would work for them, there are no pro-gun laws that are comparable to Obamacare. I don't see any law that forces citizens by the mere fact that they exist to buy a gun.

 

 

They don't really force you to buy insurance (from a private company, no less. The Democrats hate corporations so much that they exact revenge if you don't buy stuff from them), they just threaten you with punishment if you don't.

 

 

Nothing like common thugs. No. Not at all.

[BG45]

Boehner has signaled he will look for a broader deal and cease his focus on the health care law.  Meanwhile, the Presidential portrait is apparently essential business, because President Obama is having it done today, on day three of the government shutdown.

 

CC, thanks for the kind words.  You hit what I was trying to get at with suffering and death and I just failed to be as clear I guess!  My fear is that this thread ends up becoming what every political thread on PM eventually boils down to...the same arguments (on both sides) by the same pholks about abortion, the legitimacy of the state, etc. with maybe something else thrown in like same sex marriage somehow.

 

When the government shuts down, it cuts out the low cost actions that don't involve killing people. All the killy parts of the government are still open. They will still blow your wife's head off if you cut a shotgun down below the magical permitted length. They will still burn children alive to save them from cults. They will still execute 16 year old boys who had a dad who was a terrorist.

 

But government is here to protect us.

 

Right.

 

Don't seem to think I mentioned anything about protecting us?  The "security"/armed portions of government are very much still open for business.  The NASA SWAT team, for instance, is one of the few groups of people there who are part of the 3% of 'essential' personnel.  The active duty military personnel, also still being paid as essential (unlike National Guard and Reserves).  It's almost as if Congress is smart enough to realize what happens to empires whose military goes unpaid...

 

Point One: That is good. But you're not going to support fighting the unjust law now and in the way it is being fought now. So how would you support getting rid of the law later? I don't see any way that would not lead to yet another shutdown, or some other crisis. The left are not going to give up without a bitter fight. They are not going to buckle at the knees. So when and how, what's the better plan and how can you be assured that he left will not just cause another shutdown or some similar crisis when that plan is attempted. To be frank I don't think you can. I don't think there is any way to avoid this kind of crisis, no matter what plan is used. I think what would happen is the same thing that is happening now, people on our side will cave and give in and the left will win yet again.

 
 

Point Two:  That will not be happening this month, WIC has been funded (thankfully) through the rest of the month.
 

If both sides would work together and piecemeal fund these programs this wouldn't be happening. One side wants to fund them, the other side refuses. Hopefully both sides will agree to fund Head Start.
 
 

Point Three:  Again the House tried to send funding, the Senate refused to do so. Other than Harry Reid, who you want the House to surrender to, I'm not sure whom exactly you're referring to about whining.
 

Point Four:  So if it wasn't for the shutdown this poor lady would not have tried to ram her car into the White House barriers, and the Capital? I hope you are not saying that. I want these programs to be funded. I do not want people to suffer. But again there is only one side that refuses to comprise. Yet most of the blame (by the media and those that still trust it) is being put on the House. The House has compromised, even with itself going from a total defunding of Obamacare to a delay. The Senate and the White House have rejected any real compromise and demand the House surrender completely.

Point One:  Yes, I am aware I am a Catholic first instead of a Republican or a democrat.  I owe my allegiance to Christ and His Church, not the Republicans or the Democrats.  This means that I don't have all the answers when it comes to matters of faith and how to handle the crises of life and governance.  I can pray, I can listen to my conscience, but in the end, the ruling class are going to do what the ruling class and their corporate owners decide to do.  I agree that the GOP has failed to repeal the law time and again, but this move on their part will not be successful either.  Harry Reid was stubborn enough to not vote on the repeal-"compromise" that was offered directly before the shutdown, which secularly, would have given him far more "high ground" by showing the Senate was unafraid to vote.  Instead he denied that vote and now appears weak and stubborn alongside Boehner, both Reid and Boehner are doing a wonderful job at showing their disdain for the common American, being unwilling to listen to one another's points even, at least in my opinion.

 

Point Two:  I'm very glad to hear that!!  Starving out people isn't going to help anyone, including the unborn who are incapable of defending themselves.  Agreed on hoping both sides fund Head Start.  As for Reid being unwilling to listen, when passed legislation for single items like WIC, or the NIH child cancer treatment, he's a bit busy sounding like a supervillain and asking why he should care about that one type of suffering in particular, while Senator Schumer stands behind him with a mixed "deer in the headlights" and "did you seriously just say you don't care about children with cancer" look on his face.

 

Point Three:  I already went off on Reid channeling his inner supervillain, so I won't again for the sake of space lol.  I was actually referring to a poster who said, "just drop it because meanwhile people are sick and hungry waaah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah".

 

Point Four:  No I was saying that it only highlighted the need for more funding for mental health related issues.  And that those responsible for providing it, are in part furloughed as non-essential.  I don't think this woman would have been stopped if the government wasn't shut down.  Sometimes one can't stop a person, no matter what.  

 

Also on the military Mass thing, shared to FB.

 

Edit:  Added 3 words.

[4588686]

Obamacare doesn't fund abortions.

[havok579257]

This is an excellent time to point out the nature of our government. I didn't call for anarchism, I just pointed out the nature of the criminal syndicate.

 

 

I think we all know the true nature of our government.  Start a new topic if you want to talk about this but let's not derail this topic into something that this topic is not about.

[havok579257]

I would not support the same tactic to be used for sweeping gun control, only because I do not support sweeping gun control. But I would agree that Congress, both houses, would still have the Constitutional power of the purse. If the Democrats wanted to defund or delay a pro-gun law they could, but I wouldn't support it. I also do not see how the same tactic would work for them, there are no pro-gun laws that are comparable to Obamacare. I don't see any law that forces citizens by the mere fact that they exist to buy a gun.

 

 

I didn't say you would support their goal of gun control.  I said you would support the tactic of shutting down the government to get what they believe is morally right.  To support one part doing this and not the other is being a hypocrite plan and simple.

 

The same tactic would work because they believe it is morally right for the government to have records for universal background checks and according to polls the vast majority of americans agree with them.  Weather its morally right to you or not, they believe it is and so do the majority of americans.  So this tactic could easily work for them if the roles were reversed.

[God the Father]

 

Point Three:  I already went off on Reid channeling his inner supervillain, so I won't again for the sake of space lol.  I was actually referring to a poster who said, "just drop it because meanwhile people are sick and hungry waaah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah".

 

Yeah but you used a one-sentence emotional appeal that disregarded the reality of our present economic situation, so it wasn't really convincing for me. Welfare is still a vote-buying program funded by the middle class, a facet of government's overarching goal of superseding faith, family, and local autonomy, the desired end state being virtually total dependence.

[Winchester]

let's not derail this topic into something that this topic is not about.

You of all people know better than to say that to me. My God, man, it's like waving an ice cream sandwich in front of Oprah.