Woman Cardinals.

[add]

the Pope has no power to ordain women because it is simply not possible to confer holy orders upon them. (CCC 1577).

 

 this is not  a sleight to women-the Church is not misogynistic. To the contrary, the late Pope John Paul II in a 1988 apostolic letter entitled On the Dignity of Women sets forth a profoundly beautiful exposition on the unique and irreplaceable role of women and issues a call for a new and true feminism.

 

feminism or as my dear grandmother called it Womanhood.

 

This is why Mary is always pointed to as the greatest example of the absolutely indispensable role of women in the plan of salvation and the ongoing work of the Church. When God chose to come among us, he chose a woman.

Edited November 10, 2013 by add

[Maggyie]

the Pope has no power to ordain women because it is simply not possible to confer holy orders upon them. (CCC 1577).

 

 this is not  a sleight to women-the Church is not misogynistic. To the contrary, the late Pope John Paul II in a 1988 apostolic letter entitled On the Dignity of Women sets forth a profoundly beautiful exposition on the unique and irreplaceable role of women and issues a call for a new and true feminism.

 

feminism or as my dear grandmother called it Womanhood.

 

This is why Mary is always pointed to as the greatest example of the absolutely indispensable role of women in the plan of salvation and the ongoing work of the Church. When God chose to come among us, he chose a woman.

 

Yes, I don't think anyone on the thread would disagree, the Church has no power to ordain women. But what does that have to do with women Cardinals?

[add]

The pope does have the authority to appoint women as cardinals. Cardinal is not a unique rank of Holy Orders. Rather, it denotes a role of service in the Church which is hypothetically open to the lay faithful, including women. The practice has been for sometime to select cardinals from among the Order of Bishops.

 

Cardinals have been chosen from among the Order of Bishops for a very long time and it will not change according to the reports out of the Vatican.

[An Historian]

why is it AN historian? Do you not pronounce the voiceless glottal fricative?

 

Because I do not speak American English and no I do not pronounce the 'h'.

[An Historian]

The pope does have the authority to appoint women as cardinals. Cardinal is not a unique rank of Holy Orders. Rather, it denotes a role of service in the Church which is hypothetically open to the lay faithful, including women. The practice has been for sometime to select cardinals from among the Order of Bishops.

 

Cardinals have been chosen from among the Order of Bishops for a very long time and it will not change according to the reports out of the Vatican.

 

I am not sure that it is theoretically possible.  Every single cardinal in Church history has been a member of the clergy, whether in minor or major orders.  And women cannot be ordained to either the minor or the major orders.

[mortify ii]

Regardless of how power is structured, any type of power structure needs advisory structures. The laity is not a mass of illiterate serfs anymore...eventually, there is probably going to be some development of new structures to allow for that fact. And there is ancient precedence for democratic structures in the church...the bureaucratic model is not the only one, though, granted, merely adding lay representation doesn't necessarily imply that the bureaucratic model is being abolished.

 

Do cardinals speak "for the church" or for other Catholic men? No, they speak for themselves as men who are valued for their advisory role to the Pope. The addition of women, or laity, in some kind of advisory structure, would be the same thing.

 

Era, I would agree with you in general if we were talking about a secular institution but the Church is a spiritual society that is by Divine institution a monarchy. Sole authority rests in the Pope as Vicar of Christ, he may deem it prudent to appoint lay men and women as Cardinals, or he may scrap the entire cardinalate electoral process and simply appoint his successor as St Peter did. How our Shepherd chooses to take care of his flock is totally up to him, and there is nothing necessarily wrong with outside assistance or advise. I will say so that that such advisory committee's already exist in local parishes where lay men and women participate. I can't speak for the whole Church, however let's just say having lay contribution didn't drive droves of parishioners into soup kitchens or create stellar CCD classes, in fact it seems to be the exact opposite. Being that most really don't practice the faith, nurture the poor, or believe in the fundamentals, I'm really not sure opening everything to a popular vote would be the most prudent move, in fact in such a case restricting it to the pious few would be more reasonable.

[Nihil Obstat]

Nobody ever responded to my post. :sad2:

[add]

MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN

 

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

[Basilisa Marie]

MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN

 

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

 

That's nice, but it's just a starting point. 

[Semper Catholic]

MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

DIGNITY AND VOCATION OF WOMEN

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

Ya know all those promises Obama makes every election? yeah that's worth about the same.

[Maggyie]

Ya know all those promises Obama makes every election? yeah that's worth about the same.

 

Did you read it? it's a landmark feminist piece.
 

Edited November 11, 2013 by Maggie

[Ice_nine]

Because I do not speak American English and no I do not pronounce the 'h'.

 

oh your scottish. That's cute. So long as you know your place.

 

USA IS #1

[An Historian]

oh your scottish. That's cute. So long as you know your place.

 

USA IS #1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Americans

 

Quite now child.

[add]

Ya know all those promises Obama makes every election? yeah that's worth about the same.

Pope John Paul and Obama are the same, just like two peas in a pod

[Semper Catholic]

Pope John Paul and Obama are the same, just like two peas in a pod

Words without action behind them are just words.

[PhuturePriest]

PRO's: You get helpful insight from ya'know roughly 50% of the people that make up the Church

 

CON's: Those dang kids won't get off your lawn, and now they stole your dentures.

 

Yeah there really isn't any reason not to have a female Cardinal, except for the fact the Church risks losing power to a minority that may not fall in with the company line.

 

P.S. There are more women in the Church than the men. This is how it's always been. The minority is in charge, not the majority.

[Semper Catholic]

P.S. There are more women in the Church than the men. This is how it's always been. The minority is in charge, not the majority.

No women are a minority regardless of numbers.

[PhuturePriest]

No women are a minority regardless of numbers.

 

Your math skills are puzzling me.

[Ed Normile]

Wow, this has been entertaining. I only made it through three pages though, it was getting repetitive watching those with feminist views bash those with traditional catholic views. I seen one hilarious post saying catholic schools are traditionally run by women. I went through catholic grade school and high school as did my kids and we traveled regularly for my fathers contracting work, I have never seen one catholic school ran by a woman usually a priest runs the school and delegates responsibilities to those who work under him. 

 

I can't help but feel articles like this one are not only tools of the devil, but a venue of enjoyment for him. The church is under attack these days and misinformation like this just adds to general views about the church, its old views are outdated in this modern world. I believe that if Jesus wanted a female priest or apostle he would have anointed one. I can not believe Jesus was so short sighted that he could not foresee feminists views, he just refused to entertain them. Maybe he thought a woman being the mother of God would be the greatest honor, superseding even the priesthood, that any mortal could achieve.  

 

I once went to a mass that the presiding priest during the Eucharistic prayer would say, God our most merciful Father, mother.... He actually would ad lib mother ! I am glad he did not have a twitty account or else the headline might have read " Vatican to announce God is actually a woman !"

 

ed

[CrossCuT]

Wow, this has been entertaining. I only made it through three pages though, it was getting repetitive watching those with feminist views bash those with traditional catholic views. I seen one hilarious post saying catholic schools are traditionally run by women. I went through catholic grade school and high school as did my kids and we traveled regularly for my fathers contracting work, I have never seen one catholic school ran by a woman usually a priest runs the school and delegates responsibilities to those who work under him. 

 

I can't help but feel articles like this one are not only tools of the devil, but a venue of enjoyment for him. The church is under attack these days and misinformation like this just adds to general views about the church, its old views are outdated in this modern world. I believe that if Jesus wanted a female priest or apostle he would have anointed one. I can not believe Jesus was so short sighted that he could not foresee feminists views, he just refused to entertain them. Maybe he thought a woman being the mother of God would be the greatest honor, superseding even the priesthood, that any mortal could achieve.  

 

I once went to a mass that the presiding priest during the Eucharistic prayer would say, God our most merciful Father, mother.... He actually would ad lib mother ! I am glad he did not have a twitty account or else the headline might have read " Vatican to announce God is actually a woman !"

 

ed

 

Heh, typical for people to dismiss viewpoints as "feminism". 

 

Also tool of the devil? You obviously havent been reading close enough.

 

 

I spoke with my older brother about this topic (who is probably one of the best Catholics I know and has  spent many years in the seminary as he feels called to the priesthood) and his basic opinion was that Women cardinals seems like an awesome idea! He was very much in favor of it and thought it was great. However he doesnt feel like it is something that will happen anytime soon. He felt that in the grand scheme of things going on in the church this was a much smaller issue.