Feeling Pushed By A Community

[Julie de Sales]

Has this ever happend to you? That in the process of discerning with a particular religious community you feel rushed, or they try to convince you that it's there your vocation, or they want to keep contact with you (letters, phone) even when you don't want it that much. I don't know where is the line between caring about a persons vocation and trying to help her discover it as a vocation director/novice mistress for example and limiting one's freedom in making a decision. 

 

And another question: how often should a discerner update the specific religious community about his discernment? It should come naturally or it's common sense not to let pass a long period of time without letting them know where you are in your discernment?

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

As a vocation director perhaps I could share the "other side" of the coin. First if you feel pressured or rushed by a director you need to let her know. Discernment goes both ways and if you have expressed a desire to discern with a community, to get to know them more than the directress will assume you mean that and want to get to know you more, to share the life, etc. It is a relationship.

A directress is just trying to help you make a decision. If you don't want to discern with a community just drop her an email and say something like, "Thank you for the information you have shared about your community. I want to take some time to think and pray about it. Should I have any questions or decide to discern more with your community I'll be in touch!"

It's that simple. She can't know that you don't want to be in contact with her if you don't tell her.

Personally, if someone expresses serious interest in my monastery and we exchange emails and phone conversations I (perhaps naively) assume that she wants to discern with us and if I don't hear from her for awhile I do get concerned about her.  We religious are a bit old fashioned in that we aren't quite up to understanding the different levels of engagement with social media, etc. today.

I can assure you that what we really want is that you find where God wants you to be and you follow his call! If discerning with my monastery helps you to realize that you are called to a different way of life or a different monastery that is OK!

[NotreDame]

That in the process of discerning with a particular religious community you feel rushed, or they try to convince you that it's there your vocation

 

>>> That in the process of discerning with a particular religious community you feel rushed

 

Feeling pressured or rushed isn't good, but it could always just be the personality of whomever you are corresponding with.

 

>>> they try to convince you that it's there your vocation

 

If what you are trying to say is "they are trying to convince you that you have a vocation there", then this is problematic on a number of levels.  Is this a new group and/or does the group have any other issues you are aware of?  

 

>>> I don't know where is the line between caring about a persons vocation and trying to help her discover it as a vocation director/novice mistress for example and limiting one's freedom in making a decision.

 

Yes, there is a line and a difference between helping someone to discern and interfering with one's freedom of conscience.  There are some groups that do interfere.  It's not OK. 

Edited December 3, 2013 by NotreDame

[maximillion]

If there are no signs or you have no information that would lead you to think this community needs your presence (rather than the Holy Spirit guiding you there), then it could just be someone is being enthusiastic or a little impatient.

 

For me, if this is a relatively new community, or they have no new vocations recently (in the last five years or so), I would proceed with caution. However, proceeding with caution in this circumstance is still proceeding........

[Mary's Child]

I have been there and it was not fun, because of some disturbing things I saw on this retreat I did tell them I did not feel drawn to their community. I still get emails from them but I just ignore them. :/

[NotreDame]

For me, if this is a relatively new community, or they have no new vocations recently (in the last five years or so), I would proceed with caution. However, proceeding with caution in this circumstance is still proceeding........

 

Actually, this kind of pressure is usually more frequent in groups that do have plenty of 'vocations.'  After all, they pressure people for a reason: it works.  Look at the congregations and consecrated single groups that have been investigated and accused of this kind of stuff.  None of them were short on headcount.

[Spem in alium]

I have experienced a little bit of pressure in my discernment, but it didn't actually make me too uncomfortable. I think it pushed me to get to know the particular congregation more, and I'm so happy I did. It was hard to tell them that at this stage I'm not really interested in them vocationally, and they did say they were disappointed, but I think that's natural.

[OnlySunshine]

Has this ever happend to you? That in the process of discerning with a particular religious community you feel rushed, or they try to convince you that it's there your vocation, or they want to keep contact with you (letters, phone) even when you don't want it that much. I don't know where is the line between caring about a persons vocation and trying to help her discover it as a vocation director/novice mistress for example and limiting one's freedom in making a decision. 

 

And another question: how often should a discerner update the specific religious community about his discernment? It should come naturally or it's common sense not to let pass a long period of time without letting them know where you are in your discernment?

 

Unfortunately, this has happened to me.  Early in my discernment, I was in contact with a Carmelite monastery that was dwindling in numbers.  The Prioress was nice and helped me through a rough patch in my discernment when I was given a harsh response by another monastery (which turned out to be schismatic, which I didn't know until later on).  After a few emails, she tried to convince me that I was called to her monastery.  And I'm not saying that she was like, "You need to visit here," but it was more like, "We want you to enter here."  I'd never visited and I was still not in a place where I was ready to enter.  I was very new to discernment.  At the time, it was exciting because I thought that she actually wanted me to join because I had a real vocation.  However, when I told her that I wanted to visit other convents, she was adamant that I only visit the ones on a list she had.  Their monastery belonged to an association and she only wanted me to visit the other monasteries that were on it as well.  However, I was interested in one that was not and I told her that I was probably going to visit it but that I was still interested in visiting her monastery, as well.  Well, the email I got was unnerving in a sense that she was trying to persuade me away from that convent.  I started to be concerned.  I emailed her about another one as an experiment and got the same response.  That's when I realized we needed to part ways.  I was not going to join just any community.  I emailed her a few weeks later and explained that I was no longer interested in the monastery and that she please not contact me further.  The reason for the last bit was that she was emailing me forwards and chain emails.  I blocked her email address, too, because I wanted a clean break.  I recently found out that she is no longer prioress and transferred to another monastery.

[krissylou]

Well, oftentimes you (not YOU you, but the general "you") have essentially moved on but haven't actually come out and said it because that's awkward.  Then Sister Mary Catherine is exactly right and you need to be more direct.  How else would she know?

 

Sometimes people just misread each other a bit and you are reading her as being pushier than she is trying to be.  This can especially happen when most of your communication is over email.  This gets filed under "being human."

 

Sometimes it is entirely appropriate for a VD to say "you've been perpetually discerning a loooooong time, to the point where it isn't good for anyone.  Fish or cut bait."  But VDs are also human beings and may judge the timing and situations of this a bit wrong.  This also gets filed under "being human" and is not a serious problem. 

 

Sometimes people can get overly pushy in ways that are not okay.  For instance, I remember reading in Be Thou My Light that Mother Teresa's first community was very supportive of her call to found the Missionaries of Charity -- until a bunch of Mother Teresa's former students started joining her as the first other MCs.  Waitaminnit.  Those girls went to our schools.  They were supposed to be OUR vocations!  And that was the end of support.  I am guessing that at the time their Vocation Director was not overly delighted to see people discerning elsewhere.  Now that was a long time ago and understandings have changed, but still.  Sometimes people do things badly.  Sometimes very badly.

 

What specifically is happening in your situation?  I have no idea.

[Freedom]

If I feel pushed, it's a good way to push my off button.  One community called me twice and was really pressuring me into meeting up and because of this I began to make myself seem less appealing; she stopped calling ;)

[arfink]

I've seen VDs use tactics which are underhanded and inappropriate. Such tactics got used on me as well. I'd back off a bit from this community if I was you, but of course I have a bias.

[Julie de Sales]

I have had two experiences.

 

The first community is in my area and I went there for a retreat time a year and a half ago. I also mentioned to the sisters that I was interested in the religious life. I had a few talks with the VD and she gave me her email when I left. A few weeks later she contacted me and from there on started a relationship that I would describe as spiritual accompaniment. She didn't pressured me in any way. When I asked to do a live-in and I was accepted, the "discernment part" became more serious. After a while, I realized that I wasn't called there because of their charism that I wasn't feeling as my own. But, as someone here said, I didn't had the courage to tell them that I have moved on. I vaguely mentioned something. A reason for this was also that I wasn't sure about "giving up" on their monastery and that particular vocation, I thought that maybe I was still called there, and I didn't want to regret later that I had cut off with them. I'm still in contact with this monastery and I visit regulary with another friends of mine. But recently the NM asked me: "Why are you coming here?" I felt so bad when she asked me this question, because I had the feeling that I had deceived them. Then I told her that I wasn't felling called to their charism and she somehow tried to make me see that my spiritual ideal could be lived also in their charism.

 

The second community is really where I feel called to. I'm not 100% sure, but pretty sure. I have visited them in april this year, but the sisters are in another country. It was a very short visit and when I went I said that I was interested in their charism and that I wanted to meet them. I was exceptionally received in the cloister, even if I didn't asked it, because the sisters thought it would be easier for me to get to know their life in so little time. At some point in my talk with the VD, when I told her that I had been touched by the writings of their foundress and it's was that what brought me there, she said: "Then this is it"-like: this is your vocation. At that time I wasn't so convinced. When I left, I told them that maybe I will return for a visit during summer holiday. But it wasn't possible. The fact is I haven't written to them since april, since my visit. One reason is that I wasn't able to do anything concrete (to visit for example) and also because I have had a lot of doubts and problems regarding my vocation/spiritual life and I was so confused that I didn't knew what I could have said to them.

 

Two days ago a friend of mine who is in touch with the sisters told me that they were wondering if I was still interested in their community because they didn't heard from me anymore. And I felt guilty for not writing to them, especially now when I really feel called to their congregation.

 

In conclusion, I can't say I was much pressured in my discernment, but I felt however the "obligation" to keep in touch or to justify myself for the decisions I made regarding my vocation. But it was also my fault for not being sufficiently honest and direct and I don't want to repeat that.

[TheresaThoma]

Be honest with the community, it may be difficult but it sounds like this is just a matter of all parties involved needing a bit more communication. I'm sure the Sisters of the community that you feel called to will understand that you needed to take some time away from discernment to sort out your spiritual life.