Love The Sinner...

[reyb]

 I do find it hard to believe that there is any church that agrees with your private revelations and understanding of scripture though. Are you a member of some cult? I don't mean to be rude, but everything that you write seems to contradict what Jesus taught. And to support your arguments you try to pit St Paul against Jesus. It's just plain old weird theology IMO. If you are a member of some legitimate Christian denomination, would you share the name with us so we can refer to your sources in discussion? When we use ours, you try to invalidate them without using anything that can be verified.
 

Since you said ‘..... everything that you write seems to contradict what Jesus taught’.

 

I will show you another conflicting stories you have. I know that you believe in original sin hence you have baptism for infants using Romans 5:12 as a proof of its truthfulness.

 

Now, where is your proof (of this teaching) in reference to Jesus' parable saying ‘"The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. (Matt 13:37-38).

 

This time you used the letter of Paul while setting aside the parable of Jesus. Are you now following Paul more than Jesus? Of course, I hear you that Jesus is greater than Paul but, can you explain where is original sin in that parable? 

Edited January 15, 2014 by reyb

[Pliny]

I can't look my gay brother in the eye anymore and say "I love the sinner but hate the sin." I can't keep drawing circles in the sand.

I thought I just needed to try harder. Maybe I needed to focus more on loving the sinner, and less on protesting the sin. But even if I was able to fully live up to that "ideal," I'd still be wrong. I'd still be viewing him as something other, something different.

Not human. Not friend. Not Christian. Not brother.

Sinner.

 

And despite all my theological disclaimers about how I'm just as much a sinner too, it's not the same. We don't use that phrase for everybody else. Only them. Only "the gays." That's the only place where we make "sinner" the all-encompassing identity.

 

 

 

It's not a sin to be gay.  It's a sin to commit homosexual acts.

 

When did it happen that this slogan now applies only to gays?  That's news to me.  I thought it also applied to adulterers, fornicators, masturbaters, thieves, etc.

 

A homosexual act is an evil act.  It does nobody any good, especially the homosexual, to ignore that, or worry that it's going to hurt someone's feelings to protest the sin.

 

The same goes for all the other serious sexual sins.

We're all sinners, but isn't it a different category to be in a state of mortal sin, and why would we not want to hate that kind of sin above all else?   I'm a sinner, but I can't say I'm "just as much" a sinner as the adulterer, the fornicator, or the practicing homosexual. If I were, then I couldn't be receiving Communion.

 

The OP has built a straw man.  Practicing gays are not the "only sinners" and committing the only sins we should hate.

 

 

[reyb]

It's not a sin to be gay.  It's a sin to commit homosexual acts.

 

When did it happen that this slogan now applies only to gays?  That's news to me.  I thought it also applied to adulterers, fornicators, masturbaters, thieves, etc.

 

A homosexual act is an evil act.  It does nobody any good, especially the homosexual, to ignore that, or worry that it's going to hurt someone's feelings to protest the sin.

 

The same goes for all the other serious sexual sins.

We're all sinners, but isn't it a different category to be in a state of mortal sin, and why would we not want to hate that kind of sin above all else?   I'm a sinner, but I can't say I'm "just as much" a sinner as the adulterer, the fornicator, or the practicing homosexual. If I were, then I couldn't be receiving Communion.

 

The OP has built a straw man.  Practicing gays are not the "only sinners" and committing the only sins we should hate.

Are you saying, gays should not enjoy their sexual life ? (this is exclusively for straight people only ).  

Edited February 13, 2014 by reyb

[Pliny]

I'm saying that nobody should have sexual relations outside of a valid marriage.

 

The OP should be looking at his "gay brother" in the eye and tell him for his own sake that he needs to find a way out of doing what he is doing, just as he should to the straight adulterer.  

 

Love the sinner and hate the sin.  That's a GOOD strategy and by no means is exclusive to homosexual sins.

[reyb]

I'm saying that nobody should have sexual relations outside of a valid marriage.

 

The OP should be looking at his "gay brother" in the eye and tell him for his own sake that he needs to find a way out of doing what he is doing, just as he should to the straight adulterer.  

 

Love the sinner and hate the sin.  That's a GOOD strategy and by no means is exclusive to homosexual sins.

 

This is what I got from your previous statement.  -- To be gay is not a sin per se as long as he (or she for lesbian) is not doing this ‘homosexual’ act. Am I correct?

Edited February 14, 2014 by reyb

[Pliny]

Yes, that's what I meant and I'm surprised and perplexed that a Catholic could make that first post.

[reyb]

Yes, that's what I meant and I'm surprised and perplexed that a Catholic could make that first post.

 

The way I looked at them, they are gays not because of this ‘homosexual acts’ alone. What I am saying is this. I am a straight man and being as such, I act, think and move, and learn to love a straight woman not because of  ‘sex’.  Sex follows after she loved me too, and I did it because I loved her.

 

Now, do you think gay’s affection toward their lover is not ‘true love as a gay’? 

[reyb]

It's not a sin to be gay.  It's a sin to commit homosexual acts.

 

 

It is written in Heb 4:12-13 ‘For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.’

 

Now, why do you condemn ‘homosexual act’ while leaving behind ‘the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’ of gay people (since you said, ‘it is not a sin to be gay’)? My point is this: if you are really condemning homosexuality (I am here referring  to your own definition of homosexuality) then, you must condemn too ‘the thoughts and attitudes of the heart’ of gay people. Otherwise, you are just playing with your words in a subtle hypocritic manner.   

 

So again I asked...

 

 

Do you think gay’s affection toward their lover is not 'love' but just a mere 'lust'? 

Edited February 15, 2014 by reyb

[reyb]

Since you are too silent, I assumed you see my point that this is not about ‘un-normal sex’ anymore. It is  about God’s righteousness, and Apostle Paul is not referring to your definition and understanding of  â€˜sexual immorality’ because,  this kind ‘does not occur even among pagans’(1 Cor 5:1-2).

 

It is clear, Apostle Paul is not referring to your kind of ‘sexually immoral’ people because, obviously there are ‘idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offender, thieves, greedy, drunkards,  slanderers and swindlers (1 Cor 6:9)’ among pagans that is, if we will used your own definition of ‘sexual immorality’ .

 

He even said previous to that statement (1 Cor 6:18-20)

 

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

 

Therefore, this sexual immorality has something to do with the kind of Spirit to whom you give your body. Meaning, if you give yourself to another Jesus – different from the Jesus all witnesses are preaching – then, you are actually a ‘sexually immoral’ person. 

[CrossCuT]