Discussing Abortion W/ Potential Significant Others

[blazeingstar]

You get what you fish for.  If you go to a bar, than it's likely you will find a woman who has all sorts of odd moral beliefs.

 

For me, I attended Catholic groups and went online to find my (future) spouse.  All of the things (do you believe in xyz) were out there.  For a couple of bad dates I had previous to my fiancee, it was clear that they were not truthful, however, I knew very soon that I could trust my fiancee.

 

I would recommend that for men that if your "woman picker" is broken you take some serious counseling to get to the bottom of why.  While the first date doesn't need to be an interview, it's usually easy to see by how a person reacts to things, what they say, what their real beliefs are. 

 

If your having a real problem with this in the dating world I would suggest 1) stop looking where you are looking and 2) at the same time perhaps get some advice of a professional, priest or religious on picking up cues.

[Socrates]

Didn't have to bring it up. We met on Ave Maria Singles, and you have to answer that question on your profile.

 

Ditto.  That venue has the advantage of letting you know beforehand where the person stands on a number of key moral and religious issues.  (Although I've seen reported that some people apparently were dishonest in filling out their profile, saying they agreed with the Church because they figured it was the "pc" thing on that site, when in fact they did not - though I personally hadn't run across that problem with the girls I met.)

 

I also had attended an orthodox Catholic college where everyone was pro-life, so abortion was never an issue on that scene, either,  Realize most people aren't in such circumstances, though.

 

 

As to the OP, I know that a woman being pro-abortion/"pro-choice" would have been a definite deal-breaker with regards to serious dating and marriage.  I don't regard the issue of abortion and the right to life as just another political issue, but as a fundamental value.  Thinking that killing an unborn child is an acceptable choice is completely contrary to my most basic moral beliefs - as well as those taught by the Church.

 

I was pretty straightforward regarding my religious and political views when dating.  (Not that I'd spend the entire date talking politics or anything.)  May not have made me the smoothest lady's man on the block, and a few did reject me because of my social-political views.  But if deeply held religious or moral beliefs are going to be a deal-breaker for either party, it's better that it be dealt with early in dating, rather than shortly before the wedding - or after you're already married.

 

It's also foolish and naive to presume that your beloved will necessarily convert to your way of thinking after you're hitched.

 

Things could get extremely ugly if you found yourselves with a pregnancy in very difficult circumstances (unexpected severe financial problems, baby with severe defects, serious health issues, etc.) and your spouse believed abortion was an acceptable option.

 

Or even if neither of you would ever consider personally getting an abortion, there's the issue of raising your children.  It's harder to instill good Catholic pro-life values in your kids if Daddy says abortion is murder and always very wrong, while Mommy says its a perfectly legitimate choice and a woman's right (or vice-versa).

 

The Church generally frowns upon mixed marriages for the issue of raising children in the Faith, and marrying a pro-abortion person can have similar, even more serious issues.  A "pro-choice" stance on abortion is clearly incompatible with Catholic belief.

 

 

There are good Catholic guys and gals out there.  You just might happen to look a little deeper to find them than hanging out at your local bar or club.

[Socrates]

  most people, even politically pro-choice people excepting the extreme wacko radicals, still don't prefer people to choose abortions as long as they feel it can be avoided.

 

Still, there's over a million abortions a year in America alone, and statistically over one in four American women has at least one abortion by the end of their fertile years.

 

So, while most people don't see abortion as being a desirable thing in itself, the reality of abortion is not confined to the wacko fringe.  There are many real circumstances in which life is not the easy choice.

 

So while not every "pro-choicer" will be want to have an abortion, I think it's best to be on the safe side and date those who share your moral views.

 

Also, contraception will be a real issue you have to decide in marriage.  If you take the Church's teachings on contraception seriously, and your spouse does not, or disagrees with them, there will be real problems.  I think it goes without saying that anyone okay with abortion will also be okay with contraception, and probably expect to use it.

[Socrates]

Be careful in using this term loosely. 

 

I'd say anybody okay with abortion would fall under that category.

[Norseman82]

Also, contraception will be a real issue you have to decide in marriage.  If you take the Church's teachings on contraception seriously, and your spouse does not, or disagrees with them, there will be real problems.  I think it goes without saying that anyone okay with abortion will also be okay with contraception, and probably expect to use it.

 

True story:  one lady I met at a National Catholic Singles Conference mentioned she was a pharmacist at a major chain.  Now, in Illinois (and I'm sure other states) there is a requirement that pharmacists distribute such abortifacients as the morning after pill.  When I asked her about that, I think her justification was along the lines of "it's just part of my job" (it was a long time ago, so I only remember the generalities and not the minute details).  I decided not to pursue her since I knew at some point I would tell her that if we were to get married, she would have to find another job or line of work since I regarded her paycheck as "blood money".   

 

Two other issues that have also become major moral issues these days: 

 

1)  The rising use of IVF to achieve pregnancy. 

2)  Same-sex marriage.  Will you and your spouse stand together when you need to refuse to attend a same-sex ceremony for a close relative or acquaintance, even if iy causes one of those rifts wiithin relationships that Jesus predicted (see Matthew 10:34-36).  (Please note:  this also applies to invalid heterosexual marriages as well).

[Semper Catholic]

True story: one lady I met at a National Catholic Singles Conference mentioned she was a pharmacist at a major chain. Now, in Illinois (and I'm sure other states) there is a requirement that pharmacists distribute such abortifacients as the morning after pill. When I asked her about that, I think her justification was along the lines of "it's just part of my job" (it was a long time ago, so I only remember the generalities and not the minute details). I decided not to pursue her since I knew at some point I would tell her that if we were to get married, she would have to find another job or line of work since I regarded her paycheck as "blood money".

Two other issues that have also become major moral issues these days:

1) The rising use of IVF to achieve pregnancy.
2) Same-sex marriage. Will you and your spouse stand together when you need to refuse to attend a same-sex ceremony for a close relative or acquaintance, even if iy causes one of those rifts wiithin relationships that Jesus predicted (see Matthew 10:34-36). (Please note: this also applies to invalid heterosexual marriages as well).

I let my pharmacist know he's a murderer next time I see him lol

Always find it ironic that the people with the least amount of experience with personal relationships tend to be the same ones giving out the advice.

[Nihil Obstat]

Always find it ironic that the people with the least amount of experience with personal relationships tend to be the same ones giving out the advice.

Why do you keep weighing in on moral issues then?

[Semper Catholic]

Why do you keep weighing in on moral issues then?

Morality is relative.

[Nihil Obstat]

Morality is relative.

Your screen name is ironic then. :)

[NotreDame]

Morality is relative.

 

I gathered you felt that way from reading your posts.  What I don't understand is why you seem so shocked at Catholics when they express catholic morality on a Catholic forum. 

 

I get how you could disagree - and maybe I'm reading something into your posts that isn't there - but you seem to have a shocked, almost derisive reaction to those type of posts. 

 

Given that it's a catholic board with lots of catholics, I'm surprised that this would shock anyone.

[Aloysius]

Still, there's over a million abortions a year in America alone, and statistically over one in four American women has at least one abortion by the end of their fertile years.

 

So, while most people don't see abortion as being a desirable thing in itself, the reality of abortion is not confined to the wacko fringe.  There are many real circumstances in which life is not the easy choice.

 

So while not every "pro-choicer" will be want to have an abortion, I think it's best to be on the safe side and date those who share your moral views.

 

Also, contraception will be a real issue you have to decide in marriage.  If you take the Church's teachings on contraception seriously, and your spouse does not, or disagrees with them, there will be real problems.  I think it goes without saying that anyone okay with abortion will also be okay with contraception, and probably expect to use it.

fair point, of course.  I guess I had in mind people I know in my family who basically have DPLS--democratic-party-loyalty-syndrome (a condition closely related to RPLS ;) :P :smokey:) whose pro-choice positions clearly begin and end with what they think the laws should be and do not in any way extend to personal values.  sure, that's a hypocritical position, but there are people out there who do really and truly fall into that category which is why I'd not be so quick to disqualify someone on that basis.  anyway, fair point that I was coming across as way over-estimating what percentage of pro-choice ppl that would be.

[NotreDame]

I was watching the March of Life on TV today and thought if you wanted to find a nice Pro-Life girl that might be the kind of event you want to attend and get involved with.  Certainly seemed to be a number of eligible and attractive ladies in attendance and there's at least one conversation you'd have out of the way. 

[add]

Morality is relative.

Your Mom is (a) relative

[polskieserce]

I was watching the March of Life on TV today and thought if you wanted to find a nice Pro-Life girl that might be the kind of event you want to attend and get involved with.  Certainly seemed to be a number of eligible and attractive ladies in attendance and there's at least one conversation you'd have out of the way. 

 

That sounds like a good idea.  I have always wanted to go to a rally like that.  I have been busy with a lot of stuff in my personal life, but I do want to make time for that eventually.  Could be an interesting place to meet people.

[add]

The thing that still an still find hard to believe is the argument the life does not begin at conception.
Rather according to woman's right activist life begins at 40 forty weeks
It's law in this country that you can end a pregnancy by abortion right up to the day before birth

How can that be?

If this lie is true then it would not be wrong to terminate a premature infant ???




Each year, nearly 500,000 babies are premature, or preemies. That's 1 of every 8 infants born in the United States. A premature birth is when a baby is born before 37 completed weeks of pregnancy. A full-term pregnancy is 40 weeks.

Important growth and development occur throughout pregnancy - especially in the final months and weeks. Because they are born too early, preemies weigh much less than full-term babies. They may have health problems because their organs did not have enough time to develop. Preemies need special medical care in a neonatal intensive care unit, or NICU. They stay there until their organ systems can work on their own.

[Lil Red]

i don't know how you approach this personally, and i'm sure you're most likely looking for a GCG, but if you ever need pointers on talking to people about abortion without religious overtones, look up Secular Pro-Life, they have great resources from a non-religious POV. :) 

[oremus1]

It depends on the particular beliefs. Abortion is a big enough hot-button issue that I see how it might make two people incompatible if they believe opposite things about it. It's easier to handle if the pro-life person is the woman, as it doesn't matter what the husband thinks about having a baby, he can't literally force you to have an abortion. However, I wouldn't be able to marry a woman who is pro-choice, because I couldn't risk her aborting a child. However, it would depend on if she was one of the people that doesn't agree with it personally but doesn't think she should impose her beliefs on others, or if she literally would have no problem having an abortion herself. In the former, if I loved her and was truly serious about her, I would make it work. In the latter, I wouldn't be able to risk it. Just my opinion on the matter.

 

Futurepriest, is that really you in your avatar pic?

 

in general i strongly suggest bringing up prematital relations, contraception, and abortion at the soonest reasonable chance. because most young catholics do these things, sadly, and for many, it IS a dealbreaker - for both parties. plus, you know if premarital relations is not on the cards, you are both looking for a potential marital partner with marriage in the next year or two. so you are on the same page, and not just being make out buddies

[polskieserce]

Futurepriest, is that really you in your avatar pic?

 

in general i strongly suggest bringing up prematital relations, contraception, and abortion at the soonest reasonable chance. because most young catholics do these things, sadly, and for many, it IS a dealbreaker - for both parties. plus, you know if premarital relations is not on the cards, you are both looking for a potential marital partner with marriage in the next year or two. so you are on the same page, and not just being make out buddies

 

Thanks for the input.  I agree that there are many catholic youth who do those things regardless.  It's not enough to ask if someone is catholic because they could say yes, while being a fake catholic in reality.  I will definitely discuss the issue as soon as possible so I'm not wasting time with anyone.