Why Is My Everything...topic Locked?

[PhuturePriest]

Julian isn't as fun as I thought he would be in real life.

 

[blazeingstar]

No, there were no darker times. Modernism is the Greatest of all heresies, Apostasy is the greatest ever. Schismatic (Modernists) are more numerous than ever. So in this way God is calling them all back through Valtorta.

Modern confusion need the clarity of the Gospels explained in a more personal, vivid, and detailed description. All modern questions and confusions are clarified by Valtorta.

Even St. John said

John 21:25

But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

So God reserves the right to clarify if He wishes the Gospels as He did with Ven. Mary of Agreda and now in a more profound way with Valtorta.

 

 

How does John's words suggest that there should be more books?  Wouldn't it be wise of God to give us such books from the beginning.  Considering God had 4 books written it really wouldn't of hurt to write one more.

 

And Mary of Agreda wrote about the life of Mary, not Jesus.  Saints have been inspired devinly to write about many of our blessed and beloved like St. Anne and Jocam and even St. Paul.  However, there has NEVER been an approved book or writing that was about the actions and words of Jesus that is not in the bible.

[Julian]

Perhaps you should read this again:

 

Quote

 

I even made the key word in big, bolded, underlined letters for you.

 

Condemned. Just like the Arian heresy. If your Bishop was an Arian, would you be one, too, simply because he was?

 

It is not condemned. It was condemned. Bishops approved it.

 

1966: Pope Paul VI abrogates the Index of Forbidden Books, effectively liberating the first edition of the Poem from the Holy Office’s censure.

June, 1966: Cardinal Ottaviani authors a letter declaring that “the Index retains its moral force, inasmuch as it warns the Christian conscience to be on guard, as the natural law itself requires, against those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals” [14] ¹⁴

[14] This statement by Cardinal Ottaviani seems to have been widely circulated by critics of Valtorta, who use it to effectively reinstate the Index. A few points should be noted; 1) The proper understanding of “moral force” is defined in the very next sentence, i.e., to be “on guard”. It is no longer a blanket act of condemnation -- It cannot be, since Saint Faustina’s diary was never removed from the Index, and yet we now celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday because of it. 2) The statement is further restricted to "those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals". Not every book on the Index fell into this category. The Poem itself was placed on the Index due to a legal principle--the lack of an Imprimatur--not because it was deemed to "endanger faith or good morals". No Bishop or Cardinal, in print, has ever found a single doctrincal error in the Poem. 3) If "moral force" really meant what critics of the Poem interpret it as, then one would expect the Vatican to make the Index readily available to the faithful to help protect souls from harm (and also discourage seeing such plays as Les Miserable, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.). However, the Vatican has all but buried the Index--releasing its archives only to historians in 1998--and does not publically list its contents. 4) It should also be recalled that the first edition of the Poem was placed on the Index, whereas the second [substantially revised] edition was granted verbal permission to publish in 1962, according to the testimony of Fr. Berti.

[arfink]

Just read a few pages and then you'll know if it is from Christ and if it is about His Life.
 

 

Copy and paste. Use it. I know you can.

[blazeingstar]

I don't tell anyone what to do. I just posted links, testimonies and facts. I have a right to self defence and defense of Valtorta. If you think you are special and can post whatever you like and I can't post my proofs that is your special problem.

 

 

1) Phatmass has had incredible patience with you.  If you were on Catholic Answers or any other Christian message board you would of been banned by now.

 

2) By inferring that we, as (mostly) practing Catholics are liars and evildooers you ARE telling us what to do.  You are telling us we are sinning and must repent in our ways.

 

3) If you'd spent more than 10 minutes here before you spammed the heck out of a thread you yourself started, you'd notice how things go.  You make a thread, you state 2-3 facts then we get back to you with our questions

 

4) There are other people who have been around for a while who act like you do.  They generally post when drunk and say that all media is a sin.  They have "proof" too.  However, much like Catherine's Husband their proof is something that's logical only to them.  Correlation dosn't equil causition.

[PhuturePriest]

It is not condemned. It was condemned. Bishops approved it.

 

1966: Pope Paul VI abrogates the Index of Forbidden Books, effectively liberating the first edition of the Poem from the Holy Office’s censure.

June, 1966: Cardinal Ottaviani authors a letter declaring that “the Index retains its moral force, inasmuch as it warns the Christian conscience to be on guard, as the natural law itself requires, against those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals” [14] ¹⁴

[14] This statement by Cardinal Ottaviani seems to have been widely circulated by critics of Valtorta, who use it to effectively reinstate the Index. A few points should be noted; 1) The proper understanding of “moral force” is defined in the very next sentence, i.e., to be “on guard”. It is no longer a blanket act of condemnation -- It cannot be, since Saint Faustina’s diary was never removed from the Index, and yet we now celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday because of it. 2) The statement is further restricted to "those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals". Not every book on the Index fell into this category. The Poem itself was placed on the Index due to a legal principle--the lack of an Imprimatur--not because it was deemed to "endanger faith or good morals". No Bishop or Cardinal, in print, has ever found a single doctrincal error in the Poem. 3) If "moral force" really meant what critics of the Poem interpret it as, then one would expect the Vatican to make the Index readily available to the faithful to help protect souls from harm (and also discourage seeing such plays as Les Miserable, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.). However, the Vatican has all but buried the Index--releasing its archives only to historians in 1998--and does not publically list its contents. 4) It should also be recalled that the first edition of the Poem was placed on the Index, whereas the second [substantially revised] edition was granted verbal permission to publish in 1962, according to the testimony of Fr. Berti.

 

Bishops can't un-condemn something the Pope condemned. The Church is not a democracy. #Fact

[NotreDame]

I don't tell anyone what to do. I just posted links, testimonies and facts. I have a right to self defence and defense of Valtorta. If you think you are special and can post whatever you like and I can't post my proofs that is your special problem.

 

No, you don't have a right to defend Valtorta as inspired if the Church has said it is not so.  Doing so (which I believe you are doing) is disobedient. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Blech, it doesn't even matter. The 8 bishops are just people who are writing thank you letters after someone sent them a letter about the thing. Anyone can do it, and almost everyone gets a thank you letter back. It's not a serious endorsement. 

[Julian]

Julian, which is more important: the writings of Valtora, or the traditional liturgies of the Church?

 

Well obviously, the Traditional liturgies of the Church but it has been destroyed by the modernists. Jesus is condeming modernists in Valtorta's writtings.

 

Just to conclude, got to go. Give to each one his due!
 

[blazeingstar]

It is not condemned. It was condemned. Bishops approved it.

 

1966: Pope Paul VI abrogates the Index of Forbidden Books, effectively liberating the first edition of the Poem from the Holy Office’s censure.

June, 1966: Cardinal Ottaviani authors a letter declaring that “the Index retains its moral force, inasmuch as it warns the Christian conscience to be on guard, as the natural law itself requires, against those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals” [14] ¹⁴

[14] This statement by Cardinal Ottaviani seems to have been widely circulated by critics of Valtorta, who use it to effectively reinstate the Index. A few points should be noted; 1) The proper understanding of “moral force” is defined in the very next sentence, i.e., to be “on guard”. It is no longer a blanket act of condemnation -- It cannot be, since Saint Faustina’s diary was never removed from the Index, and yet we now celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday because of it. 2) The statement is further restricted to "those writings which can endanger the faith or good morals". Not every book on the Index fell into this category. The Poem itself was placed on the Index due to a legal principle--the lack of an Imprimatur--not because it was deemed to "endanger faith or good morals". No Bishop or Cardinal, in print, has ever found a single doctrincal error in the Poem. 3) If "moral force" really meant what critics of the Poem interpret it as, then one would expect the Vatican to make the Index readily available to the faithful to help protect souls from harm (and also discourage seeing such plays as Les Miserable, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.). However, the Vatican has all but buried the Index--releasing its archives only to historians in 1998--and does not publically list its contents. 4) It should also be recalled that the first edition of the Poem was placed on the Index, whereas the second [substantially revised] edition was granted verbal permission to publish in 1962, according to the testimony of Fr. Berti.

 

But those are strawmen.  It's like saying that because one priest was falsely accused of sexual abuse all priests who are accused are falsely accused when we know well and good that there are MANY abusive priests.

 

Just beucase there are good writings that have been condemned (and were never removed) does not mean that all writing that was condemned fall into that category.  This argment builds its case on the fact that there were some cases that were unfair or harsh, but no where does it give an argument besides the word of "Fr. Berti" that the poem was allowed to be published.  

 

Being published, however, still dosn't give approval of it's message, only that the church did not pass judgment on it at that time.

[Julian]

1) Phatmass has had incredible patience with you.  If you were on Catholic Answers or any other Christian message board you would of been banned by now.

 

2) By inferring that we, as (mostly) practing Catholics are liars and evildooers you ARE telling us what to do.  You are telling us we are sinning and must repent in our ways.

 

3) If you'd spent more than 10 minutes here before you spammed the heck out of a thread you yourself started, you'd notice how things go.  You make a thread, you state 2-3 facts then we get back to you with our questions

 

4) There are other people who have been around for a while who act like you do.  They generally post when drunk and say that all media is a sin.  They have "proof" too.  However, much like Catherine's Husband their proof is something that's logical only to them.  Correlation dosn't equil causition.

 

It is good you are not in charge, pheeeew

Your justice is too severe. Who would survive?
 

[PhuturePriest]

Well obviously, the Traditional liturgies of the Church but it has been destroyed by the modernists. Jesus is condeming modernists in Valtorta's writtings.

 

Just to conclude, got to go. Give to each one his due!
 

 

Just in case you missed my previous post.

 

Bishops can't un-condemn something the Pope condemned. The Church is not a democracy. #Fact

[Nihil Obstat]

Well obviously, the Traditional liturgies of the Church but it has been destroyed by the modernists. Jesus is condeming modernists in Valtorta's writtings.

Just to conclude, got to go. Give to each one his due!

Do you agree then that the law of belief flows from and exists in service to the law of worship?
Where, then, can we find the doctrines of this Poem of the Man God in the traditional worship of the Holy Church?

[blazeingstar]

It is good you are not in charge, pheeeew

Your justice is too severe. Who would survive?
 

 

In a previous incarnation I was asked to be a Mod but chose not to for personal reasons.  However, even if I was, DuST would still have suspend/ban power.

 

We don't straight out ban people here because we like to hear them out.  However, we do ask that they play by certain rules, such as being kind and not calling us liars.

[blazeingstar]

Well obviously, the Traditional liturgies of the Church but it has been destroyed by the modernists. Jesus is condeming modernists in Valtorta's writtings.

 

Just to conclude, got to go. Give to each one his due!
 

 

Heavens almighty!!!  Are you going to turn this into a "my 1960 mass is the only vaild one" and claim that Vat II ruined the church?  

 

You do know that the Mass has undergone many changes to get to 1960...some that were considered wildy modern and horribly inconvientet....like weekly reception of the Eucharist and even, get this, pews.

[Nihil Obstat]

Heavens almighty!!! Are you going to turn this into a "my 1960 mass is the only vaild one" and claim that Vat II ruined the church?

You do know that the Mass has undergone many changes to get to 1960...some that were considered wildy modern and horribly inconvientet....like weekly reception of the Eucharist and even, get this, pews.

Do not detail my discussion with Julian please.

[cmaD2006]

Julian (and for other newbies on PM):

Normally on phatmass when a topic is locked, opening a new topic on the same theme is a no-no. Right now all mods have not weighed in as to whether the topic should stay locked.

I am (for now) leaving this one open, BUT I am moving it to debate table.

If we decide to keep the other thread closed we may also decide to close this one as well.

[Winchester]

Because it was utter lunacy.

 

I think you're a treasure.

[BG45]

On the positive side, that's the first time I've seen Cardinal Ottaviani's name used in a context that was not a Traditional Latin Mass vs. Novus Ordo debate.

[blazeingstar]

Do not detail my discussion with Julian please.

 

Its a free world.