Study And Discernment.

[Spem in alium]

Is anyone in this position at the moment - studying, with a few years left to go, yet discerning religious life?

 

I spoke to the vocations director of the order I'm interested in about it. It's been a long time since they've had a young person enter from my country, let alone one who is studying, so I don't know if they know how to take it.

 

I have a greater sense that I am called to religious life, and I really want to take my involvement with the Sisters to the next step, but I have to face the realities of my situation: I'm still studying and have a pile of debt I need to pay off. I will probably have less opportunities to visit, but I don't want to put my discernment on the back-burner - it's too much of a joy and reality for me to let go of.

 

How do you nurture your discernment without stopping altogether or compromising study? 

[Blue.Rose]

I'm studying until the end of the year but I deliberately chose a course that I could afford without going into debt and that also could be useful in the order I'm interested in.
I don't think you should quit studying because it will cost you and probably much better in the long term to have that qualification.
I've heard of communities helping pay off debts or helping people raise money to pay them off.

Can it work for you to finish study and pay it off and then enter? It will give plenty of discernment time to make sure Religious life is for you.

[Spem in alium]

When I started studying I wasn't discerning, so I didn't really think much about student loans or the fact that my university is private and fees are higher. In the end, though, the university I'm going to has been a true blessing and help in my discernment. 

I'm not considering quitting study and am this year a scholarship recipient (which should help with the debt), and I'm not sure how the Sisters could help with paying it off - is this something I should consider asking? To be honest they haven't given me much info about the debt and entering (the student loans here are quite different from the US), so I've been feeling a little lost.

 

That is ultimately my plan - finish study (which will end in 2016) and enter, but there is an opportunity for me to enter while I am still studying. I was originally hoping to enter sometime this year, but then I found out debt was an issue. 

 

Do you find that you still keep an active relationship  with your order while you are studying? 

[OnlySunshine]

When I started studying I wasn't discerning, so I didn't really think much about student loans or the fact that my university is private and fees are higher. In the end, though, the university I'm going to has been a true blessing and help in my discernment. 

I'm not considering quitting study and am this year a scholarship recipient (which should help with the debt), and I'm not sure how the Sisters could help with paying it off - is this something I should consider asking? To be honest they haven't given me much info about the debt and entering (the student loans here are quite different from the US), so I've been feeling a little lost.

 

That is ultimately my plan - finish study (which will end in 2016) and enter, but there is an opportunity for me to enter while I am still studying. I was originally hoping to enter sometime this year, but then I found out debt was an issue. 

 

Do you find that you still keep an active relationship  with your order while you are studying? 

 

My friend was accepted to enter her current order while she was still finishing college.  She didn't graduate until May 2009 and then entered the following September.  She was accepted in November 2007 so it was quite a trial for her to stay focused on her studies since she wanted to enter sooner.  However, since she wasn't accumulating any debt thanks to scholarships and grants, the Provincial Superior asked that she complete her degree before she entered since it was something she could use in religious life.  She graduated with a Bachelor's in Theology with a minor in Spanish.

 

She visited the community as often as she could afford to and not have it interfere with her studies.  She went once every 3 months and then had to space it out for every 6 months as the airfare price went up.  I remember how she would tell me that she would cry a puddle of tears every time she had to leave because she would leave her heart at the convent.  She dearly loved her Sisters and she was so thrilled to finally enter (she left because of health problems and then re-entered in June 2012).  She is on the verge of making first vows on July 1st, 2014.  Unfortunately, it looks as though I won't be able to attend because of financial issues but I am so thrilled for her.

 

I think the best thing for you to do is discuss with the Superior how you should handle the debt you accumulated.  Check with your local Knights of Columbus (they LOVE helping with seminarian and religious life vocations).  Also, check whether or not Mater Ecclesiae Fund for Vocations will accept people outside the US.  It doesn't say anything on their website about only allowing American applicants.

 

http://fundforvocations.org/Eligibility

[Spem in alium]

My friend was accepted to enter her current order while she was still finishing college.  She didn't graduate until May 2009 and then entered the following September.  She was accepted in November 2007 so it was quite a trial for her to stay focused on her studies since she wanted to enter sooner.  However, since she wasn't accumulating any debt thanks to scholarships and grants, the Provincial Superior asked that she complete her degree before she entered since it was something she could use in religious life.  She graduated with a Bachelor's in Theology with a minor in Spanish.

 

She visited the community as often as she could afford to and not have it interfere with her studies.  She went once every 3 months and then had to space it out for every 6 months as the airfare price went up.  I remember how she would tell me that she would cry a puddle of tears every time she had to leave because she would leave her heart at the convent.  She dearly loved her Sisters and she was so thrilled to finally enter (she left because of health problems and then re-entered in June 2012).  She is on the verge of making first vows on July 1st, 2014.  Unfortunately, it looks as though I won't be able to attend because of financial issues but I am so thrilled for her.

 

I think the best thing for you to do is discuss with the Superior how you should handle the debt you accumulated.  Check with your local Knights of Columbus (they LOVE helping with seminarian and religious life vocations).  Also, check whether or not Mater Ecclesiae Fund for Vocations will accept people outside the US.  It doesn't say anything on their website about only allowing American applicants.

 

http://fundforvocations.org/Eligibility

Thanks Mater. I can relate to your friend's feelings - it has been hard for me at times to focus as I just want to be free to enter. I know I could enter while I still have some study left - if I didn't have a loan, I could even begin Affliancy now with three years of study to go. The way things are going I feel as though this particular order is where I am being called, but at this stage, the only thing really holding me back is my loan. Thankfully, my scholarship should help pay off part of it.

 

I've given the Superior some information about my loan. The way it works is that I don't need to begin paying it back until I earn over a certain amount, but it's unlikely I'd be exceeding the threshold with the stipend I would receive as a religious. It's not been easy discussing my loan with them as I'm not really sure they know how to approach it themselves, and sometimes I worry that they actually don't want me to enter with them. I'll try talking to her again and I'll check out the Knights of Columbus (here I think they are the Knights of the Southern Cross). Do you know how exactly they help with loans?

[Carla]

I'm also in similar situation.I will finish my collage till summer.At the moment i'm in my last semester and my plan is to enter in the fall.

 

And yes becuse of discernment for me it is harder to focus my self to studing.Only i'm in better sitation because studing in my country is free.So i have no debt in that way.

[Spem in alium]

I'm also in similar situation.I will finish my collage till summer.At the moment i'm in my last semester and my plan is to enter in the fall.

 

And yes becuse of discernment for me it is harder to focus my self to studing.Only i'm in better sitation because studing in my country is free.So i have no debt in that way.

 

That is wonderful! Have you found it fairly easy to visit your Sisters while studying, or have you had to visit less?

 

Yesterday when I was speaking with the Vocations Director I got the sense that she thought I wanted to put my discernment "on hold" for the next three years because I'm studying. This is the last thing I want to do - I'm still working on seeking a balance between them, or at least a way in which I can still make progress in discernment while studying effectively.
 

[Carla]

That is wonderful! Have you found it fairly easy to visit your Sisters while studying, or have you had to visit less?

 

Yesterday when I was speaking with the Vocations Director I got the sense that she thought I wanted to put my discernment "on hold" for the next three years because I'm studying. This is the last thing I want to do - I'm still working on seeking a balance between them, or at least a way in which I can still make progress in discernment while studying effectively.
 

 

No i found time in any way possible to visit Sisters:)Of course when you are studing it take you a lot of time for all the work around that.But for my discernment i found time becuse it is most important thing in my life in last year.Do not get me wrong but it is not bad think to put your discernment on "hold".

It is not the way to give up from it just change the priorities at the moment.And you will have plenty of time to work on your Vocation.My advisor tell me the same if you have vocation time is not important!

I have learn in my Vocation that i need to work on my spirutal work and my faith and rest will just came to me.

[Spem in alium]

No i found time in any way possible to visit Sisters:)Of course when you are studing it take you a lot of time for all the work around that.But for my discernment i found time becuse it is most important thing in my life in last year.Do not get me wrong but it is not bad think to put your discernment on "hold".

It is not the way to give up from it just change the priorities at the moment.And you will have plenty of time to work on your Vocation.My advisor tell me the same if you have vocation time is not important!

I have learn in my Vocation that i need to work on my spirutal work and my faith and rest will just came to me.

That's great :) I really love visiting my Sisters. I haven't yet had a live-in with them, only weekend stays, so I'm hoping to spend a week assisting in the parishes or at the aged care facility they run - though it will be hard coordinating that around my study, work and volunteer commitments. I try to remind myself that the Lord will provide, and that with Him I can do it,

 

My relationship with Jesus is probably the most important thing in my life at the moment. I'm finding that as it develops, other areas of my life are also nurtured. I do worry about putting my discernment "on hold" because I fear that if I do that, I won't progress. 

 

That's true - if you have a vocation, time is not important. I trust Jesus will call me to choose my path when he thinks I am ready, and in the meantime I'm travelling down the road I believe leads me to him.

[Janet Ng]

I'm working and discerning at the moment and may end up working, studying and discerning in September for two years. Not entirely sure how wise that is but unless you're very certain that religious life is for you, you won't want your academics/career to be hampered? I started discerning last year after Easter and just started working for a few months. While I feel very drawn to religious life for a few reasons I cannot enter any time soon and definitely not until a convent takes me, and whatever I do now I think as long as I keep close with Jesus and meet my vocations director on a regular basis I don't have to put my discernment on hold.

[marigold]

Well, by 'discerning' do you mean 'spending as much time with the community as possible'? If so, then yes that probably will have to take a backseat at certain times in the next couple of years. But if you mean generally living out your faith day to day and listening for what God's will is in the moment, then I don't see what you would have to wait for :) Part of that will probably include developing your relationship with the sisters, but not exclusively. That's how it should be. Don't worry that you won't progress!

 

I'm glad to read your posts because you seem to be level-headed about both of these things that have your attention right now. You sound happy but not stressed or wishing time would go quicker. It's really refreshing :)

[Spem in alium]

I'm working and discerning at the moment and may end up working, studying and discerning in September for two years. Not entirely sure how wise that is but unless you're very certain that religious life is for you, you won't want your academics/career to be hampered? I started discerning last year after Easter and just started working for a few months. While I feel very drawn to religious life for a few reasons I cannot enter any time soon and definitely not until a convent takes me, and whatever I do now I think as long as I keep close with Jesus and meet my vocations director on a regular basis I don't have to put my discernment on hold.

Thank you :) I agree with you. I want to see my study through to the end and I see it as a good venture. Plus, if I enter religious life and then have to leave for some reason, I will have something to fall back on. I think the vocations director was a bit surprised by me doing more study, as I've told her I'm pretty serious about her congregation. I definitely don't want to make them think I'm not interested, so I'm going to try and spend as much time with them as I can.

[Spem in alium]

Well, by 'discerning' do you mean 'spending as much time with the community as possible'? If so, then yes that probably will have to take a backseat at certain times in the next couple of years. But if you mean generally living out your faith day to day and listening for what God's will is in the moment, then I don't see what you would have to wait for :) Part of that will probably include developing your relationship with the sisters, but not exclusively. That's how it should be. Don't worry that you won't progress!

 

I'm glad to read your posts because you seem to be level-headed about both of these things that have your attention right now. You sound happy but not stressed or wishing time would go quicker. It's really refreshing :)

Yes, that's what I mean - spending time with the community :) I don't see them nearly as often as I would like, but each time I visit is a true blessing and I feel very "at home" and peaceful in their presence - so I take that as a good sign and I keep going back.
That's lovely to hear; thank you for your kindness. I really don't feel all that level-headed, but I'm definitely happy and patient. I just trust that all will be done with God's help. :) 

I do have another issue: I'm in touch with two orders. I'm seeing the one I feel very good about maybe once every couple of months, and am having monthly spiritual direction, discernment reflections and visits with the other (I've told my director and another Sister that I don't feel as strongly about them). Being in contact with more than one order has been so beneficial and eye-opening, but I worry about confusing them sometimes. Ideally I would like to spend more time with the Sisters I'm discerning with, but I don't want to limit my contact with the other Sisters. In my chat with the Vocations Director on Saturday, she sounded a little unsure of how to progress with me given that I'm studying and having accompaniment with this other order. None of the Sisters is pressuring me directly, but sometimes I feel quite lost and unsure of how to move. Would anyone have any ideas of what I could do? I'm thinking I could talk with my Spiritual Director, but not sure if that would be appropriate.

[chrysostom]

I am in a similar situation, as I have roughly 2.5 years before I could see myself entering a community at the earliest, because I'm currently working and need to finish out university after that.  When all is said and done I shouldn't have any debt.  The place I dearly wish to join requires young men to finish some kind of course of studies before entering their community.  I need those years for discernment anyways - it hasn't been long since I have felt the call.  Unfortunately it is probably going to be the summer of 2015 before I could visit due to it being overseas, but I do hope to spent a solid month there.

 

I don't anticipate study interfering with my discernment, because I find that the more I pray the more productive I become.  Well, at least I hope that's how it will continue to work out.

[littlesister]

See if your community has a ministry in which you could be an employee - live-in if possible - until you've managed to pay off the debt.  A number of our young sisters have been able to do that, and it was an advantage in every way.  The loan was cleared, and they were able to stay in contact and consideration of the life in a way that would not have been possible in an outside and probably secular position.

 

For those in the U.S., the Laboure Society has a program for discerners who are hampered by loans, which has become a common problem today.  There may be something similar where you are.

 

Blessings and best wishes to all.  The road to religious life can seem endless at times, but looking back it will have been worth it.

[Spem in alium]

I am in a similar situation, as I have roughly 2.5 years before I could see myself entering a community at the earliest, because I'm currently working and need to finish out university after that.  When all is said and done I shouldn't have any debt.  The place I dearly wish to join requires young men to finish some kind of course of studies before entering their community.  I need those years for discernment anyways - it hasn't been long since I have felt the call.  Unfortunately it is probably going to be the summer of 2015 before I could visit due to it being overseas, but I do hope to spent a solid month there.

 

I don't anticipate study interfering with my discernment, because I find that the more I pray the more productive I become.  Well, at least I hope that's how it will continue to work out.

I'm glad you won't be left with debt. It's a pesky thing. And the time sounds like it will work well for you, though it must be hard not being able to visit often. 

I'm similar - prayer and productivity seem to go hand-in-hand for me.
 

[Spem in alium]

See if your community has a ministry in which you could be an employee - live-in if possible - until you've managed to pay off the debt.  A number of our young sisters have been able to do that, and it was an advantage in every way.  The loan was cleared, and they were able to stay in contact and consideration of the life in a way that would not have been possible in an outside and probably secular position.

 

For those in the U.S., the Laboure Society has a program for discerners who are hampered by loans, which has become a common problem today.  There may be something similar where you are.

 

Blessings and best wishes to all.  The road to religious life can seem endless at times, but looking back it will have been worth it.

Oh wow, this is a great idea - thank you! One of their ministries is the running of an aged care facility. I'm doing some pastoral care training at the moment, and when I mentioned this to the vocations director she said it would be really useful for them if I ever wanted to help there (though I think she was meaning a volunteer capacity). I will hopefully be going for a week-long stay sometime in the next few months, and was planning to ask the Superior if she has any suggestions as to how I could pay off my debt. 

I'm not really sure if there's an equivalent to the Laboure Society, but can have a look. Here there's not really a generous attitude towards religious vocations, unfortunately.

 

 

[chrysostom]

I should add that my time off now will help me pay for college, but if for some reason I still have outstanding debt when I graduate (and by then I'm assuming I'll be making plans to join my community for postulancy), I will simply work my butt off as soon as I graduate until it's paid off, which would hopefully take no more than an extra year - for my May 2016 graduation that means roughly 3 years from now.  The community I hope to join simply can't take on any debt.  The ideal spirit to do this is in would emulate Jacob labouring joyfully for Rachel.  Hopefully I won't have to wait, though, but that's what's on the table should financial circumstances worsen.

[EmilyAnn]

Thanks Mater. I can relate to your friend's feelings - it has been hard for me at times to focus as I just want to be free to enter. I know I could enter while I still have some study left - if I didn't have a loan, I could even begin Affliancy now with three years of study to go. The way things are going I feel as though this particular order is where I am being called, but at this stage, the only thing really holding me back is my loan. Thankfully, my scholarship should help pay off part of it.

 

I've given the Superior some information about my loan. The way it works is that I don't need to begin paying it back until I earn over a certain amount, but it's unlikely I'd be exceeding the threshold with the stipend I would receive as a religious. It's not been easy discussing my loan with them as I'm not really sure they know how to approach it themselves, and sometimes I worry that they actually don't want me to enter with them. I'll try talking to her again and I'll check out the Knights of Columbus (here I think they are the Knights of the Southern Cross). Do you know how exactly they help with loans?

 

It sounds like the system of loans for you is similar (or possibly the same) as in the UK. When I was discerning religious life, I was in a very similar situation - I was still at university, and had some student loans as a result.  When I talked to the community I was planning to enter, I was told that my student loans would not be an obstacle because I would never earn over the threshold for repayment - I was going to enter right after I finished university. If the Australian system is as you describe, loans may not even be an issue for you. Talk to them, and maybe other religious you know and see. :)

[Spem in alium]

I should add that my time off now will help me pay for college, but if for some reason I still have outstanding debt when I graduate (and by then I'm assuming I'll be making plans to join my community for postulancy), I will simply work my butt off as soon as I graduate until it's paid off, which would hopefully take no more than an extra year - for my May 2016 graduation that means roughly 3 years from now.  The community I hope to join simply can't take on any debt.  The ideal spirit to do this is in would emulate Jacob labouring joyfully for Rachel.  Hopefully I won't have to wait, though, but that's what's on the table should financial circumstances worsen.

That sounds like a good plan. And it's good that you're trying to adopt a joyful spirit, especially one like Jacob's :) I'll be keeping you in prayer.

 

It sounds like the system of loans for you is similar (or possibly the same) as in the UK. When I was discerning religious life, I was in a very similar situation - I was still at university, and had some student loans as a result.  When I talked to the community I was planning to enter, I was told that my student loans would not be an obstacle because I would never earn over the threshold for repayment - I was going to enter right after I finished university. If the Australian system is as you describe, loans may not even be an issue for you. Talk to them, and maybe other religious you know and see. :)

Thanks for that :) Yeah, I only need to repay my loan once I start earning over the threshold amount, and if I never do that then I never need to repay it. The Superior told me the amount the Sisters receive as a stipend, and if I recall correctly it's a little below the threshold. In that situation, I don't think I would need to pay it back, but they seem a little uncertain - I think it's hard for them in my situation as they're relatively new to the idea of having young Australian women with loans wanting to enter :) The other order I'm in contact with doesn't worry about loans, but when I've asked them about loans in general they've not really given me much information. I should be getting enough money from my scholarship to fund repayments, and I'm happy to try and pay it if that's what I need to do...though I would rather not have to pay it back so that I could save my money and use it for something else, like research trips :)