Why Modesty Guidelines Are Wrong

[Anastasia13]

A general guideline should be enough compared to making a woman over 6 feet-they do exist-wear only skirts that reach they ground when kneeling.

[Lilllabettt]

A general guideline should be enough compared to making a woman over 6 feet-they do exist-wear only skirts that reach they ground when kneeling.

 

Do you work in the schools?  Where children, parents, and uniforms are concerned a general guideline is emphatically NOT enough.  A school with an effective uniform policy will have it spelt out in the handbook in detail - for good reason. Experience teaches that explicit direction in this area is necessary.

 

Naturally there are exceptions to every rule. I had a student with a skin condition. She was excused from the part of the uniform code banning colored tights.

[Anastasia13]

Do you work in the schools?  Where children, parents, and uniforms are concerned a general guideline is emphatically NOT enough.  A school with an effective uniform policy will have it spelt out in the handbook in detail - for good reason. Experience teaches that explicit direction in this area is necessary.

 

Naturally there are exceptions to every rule. I had a student with a skin condition. She was excused from the part of the uniform code banning colored tights.

 

I am not objecting to explicit. I am objecting to exact.

[Basilisa Marie]

Do you work in the schools?  Where children, parents, and uniforms are concerned a general guideline is emphatically NOT enough.  A school with an effective uniform policy will have it spelt out in the handbook in detail - for good reason. Experience teaches that explicit direction in this area is necessary.

 

Naturally there are exceptions to every rule. I had a student with a skin condition. She was excused from the part of the uniform code banning colored tights.

 

Hmm, yeah, I think your points about needing a specific dress code in schools are valid. My own issues with the rules are the ways I experienced their enforcement. It always seemed like the ones who were blatantly violating the dress code were given a pass on it (girls with spaghetti straps, boys with beer logos on their T shirts) more often than the girls whose skirt was just barely too short.  So I guess I wouldn't say the code is the problem at all, but the way it is sometimes delivered. As long as everyone can expect to get the same treatment, I wouldn't have a problem. 

[Anastasia13]

Approximately knee length should be good enough.

[CrossCuT]

Let's not be dramatic.

 

There is nothing creepy about a stringently enforced school uniform policy, including the kneel/finger-tip test for girl's skirts and the dollar bill test for boy's and girl's shirt sleeves.

 

I've taught in a few public school districts, all of them urban and struggling, and they all required uniforms. For a reason.

 

Do you work in the schools?  Where children, parents, and uniforms are concerned a general guideline is emphatically NOT enough.  A school with an effective uniform policy will have it spelt out in the handbook in detail - for good reason. Experience teaches that explicit direction in this area is necessary.

 

Naturally there are exceptions to every rule. I had a student with a skin condition. She was excused from the part of the uniform code banning colored tights.

 

 

Oh please. There is absolutely no need to have a girl kneel down on the ground to check her skirt length, gimme a break! hahaha!

I went to private school most of my life where I wore a uniform. It does not take a rocket scientists to see that if a skirt is too high above the knee then they will fail this "skirt test".

There were a few girls who had skirts that were mid thigh....you dont need a skirt test to verify the length.

 

I dont think we need to have girls kneeling down on the ground or having 1 dollar bills placed next to them...use your eyes people.

 

And even if the skirt is a quarter of an inch in either direction, who cares? I dont think a quarter of an inch is going to even be noticeable nor was it likely a plot by the girl to evade the rules.

[CrossCuT]

Approximately knee length should be good enough.

:like2:

 

Yeah, I concur.

 

 

And I just want to mention that Im all for modesty and uniform enforcement, but these ridiculous methods (which I am sure were developed mostly as a shame method) are too much. You dont need them. 

[4LoveofJMJ]

 

I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think he was talking about modesty in church, but modesty everywhere else specifically. I don't think many people would say cocktail dresses are appropriate for church. :P

 

You would not believe some of the clothes I've seen worn to church. Most of the girls I was confirmed with were wearing cocktail type dresses. I don't know how many times they told us the dress code before but no body listened! There were only 5-10% of the girls who were dressed modestly. I'm not talking about a few inches above the knee, but a seriously-don't-bend-over-too-far-or-we-will-see-everything dress on some of the girls.

 

And lets not get into what I used to see going to Mass back in CA. Thankfully people at my new church dress more respectfully.

 

[SilentJoy]

 

 

I dont think we need to have girls kneeling down on the ground or having 1 dollar bills placed next to them...use your eyes people.

 

Maybe I just have a dirty mind, but I interpreted the dollar bill thing as sign language for "Yep, ya look like a harlot."

[CrossCuT]

Maybe I just have a dirty mind, but I interpreted the dollar bill thing as sign language for "Yep, ya look like a harlot."

 

Its a shame tactic. And I do not support it in the least. Especially since there is absolutely no logical need for it when your eyeballs and general sense of decency can suffice. 

 

:)

[4LoveofJMJ]

I agree with this article so much. I hate it when they talk about modesty in a way that gives the impression that guys have no self control where lust is concerned. That we must be completely covered lest we lead our poor helpless brothers to sin. This responsibility is on the shoulders of women after all. Yet nothing is ever said to guys about controlling their thoughts! :wall:

 

When I was growing up, my mom always instilled in me the idea that if I wanted to dress in a way that gets the attention of the cute guy I wanted to impress, he would not be the only one looking. There are other ways of looking attractive without showing too much skin. If a girl wants to be taken seriously, then she shouldn't dress like the girls who only want to play.

[Lilllabettt]

Oh please. There is absolutely no need to have a girl kneel down on the ground to check her skirt length, gimme a break! hahaha!

I went to private school most of my life where I wore a uniform. It does not take a rocket scientists to see that if a skirt is too high above the knee then they will fail this "skirt test".

There were a few girls who had skirts that were mid thigh....you dont need a skirt test to verify the length.

 

I dont think we need to have girls kneeling down on the ground or having 1 dollar bills placed next to them...use your eyes people.

 

And even if the skirt is a quarter of an inch in either direction, who cares? I dont think a quarter of an inch is going to even be noticeable nor was it likely a plot by the girl to evade the rules.

 

Your way works in kumbaya world - that magical place where parents, teachers and their childen are all sane, reasonable people.

 

In the real world, the parents, teachers and children at any given school are NOT all reasonable people. In the real world, parents will scream their lungs out to demand "fair" and "equal" treatment of thier offspring. A teacher or administrator having an "opinion" or making a "judgment call" that a child's dress violates the unifom code will not fly. What the real world requires is an objective measure that people without the patience or facility to use measuring tape can understand and apply. There is no room for the possibilty of capriciousness in this area. Trust me.

[CrossCuT]

Your way works in kumbaya world - that magical place where parents, teachers and their childen are all sane, reasonable people.

 

In the real world, the parents, teachers and children at any given school are NOT all reasonable people. In the real world, parents will scream their lungs out to demand "fair" and "equal" treatment of thier offspring. A teacher or administrator having an "opinion" or making a "judgment call" that a child's dress violates the unifom code will not fly. What the real world requires is an objective measure that people without the patience or facility to use measuring tape can understand and apply. There is no room for the possibilty of capriciousness in this area. Trust me.

 

If you notice, Im not arguing at all against the enforcement of modesty guidelines in schools. Just the shame test.

 

So you think this kneeling test is 100% necessary, like there are 0 other options? Bahahahaha

Did we just go back in time?

 

And the reality of social norms is only reality because we make it that way. This reality can be changed whenever we choose to make it something else. So the whole "This is reality" argument doesnt do much for me, its more of an excuse than anything else. "Oh we shouldnt do anything to change the world because X, Y, Z is a reality."

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

oooOOOooooOOO

[SilentJoy]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! :winner:

[Lilllabettt]

If you notice, Im not arguing at all against the enforcement of modesty guidelines in schools. Just the shame test.

 

So you think this kneeling test is 100% necessary, like there are 0 other options? Bahahahaha

Did we just go back in time?

 

And the reality of social norms is only reality because we make it that way. This reality can be changed whenever we choose to make it something else. So the whole "This is reality" argument doesnt do much for me, its more of an excuse than anything else. "Oh we shouldnt do anything to change the world because X, Y, Z is a reality."

 

No, the kneeling test is not strictly "necessary." I know one school used the finger tip test until Mom complained her daughter was being unfairly punished for having "longer arms!!!!" And why does the school base their uniform decisions on arm length instead of actual skirt length, since skirt length is what is at issue?!?!?! And on and on. So they went for the kneeling test.  No doubt someone will eventually have a problem with that. Everyone has their log to saw.

 

I never saw the skirt test performed in a public setting. Usually a kid in a questionable outfit would get sent down to the office and if they failed the test they'd be put in a hideous loaner skirt -- oh no, more shame!!!  But I personally see nothing wrong -- and everything right -- with students experiencing shame as one of the consequences of their choice to break a rule.