How Is The Vatican Rooting Out Sodomy In The Seminaries?

[Eliakim]

Very outdated article mostly from the perspective that the newest source they use is already 14 years old. 

I understand you have a lot of personal problems rooted in this subject, but we all need to be objective when we start throwing science into the equation.

This is an extremely biased article with super old sources...a majority from the 60-80s and even a couple in the 50s. Not a good way to support your argument.

 

Do you not want people knowing that someone who thinks he is a homosexual can successfully change? 

[CrossCuT]

Do you not want people knowing that someone who thinks he is a homosexual can successfully change? 

 

I want people to understand what homosexuality is. 

I want people to treat homosexuals with dignity and love.

[Eliakim]

I want people to understand what homosexuality is. 

I want people to treat homosexuals with dignity and love.

 

Not just "homosexuals" but all men and women should be treated with dignity and love.  But it doesn't stop there.  Christ also tells the sinner to "go and sin no more."  Part of loving someone is helping them turn away from sin. 

 

So back to your first sentence/my question, do you think homosexuality can be extracted from an individual to the extent that the person no longer craves it, and instead prefers the opposite sex? 

[CrossCuT]

Not just "homosexuals" but all men and women should be treated with dignity and love.  But it doesn't stop there.  Christ also tells the sinner to "go and sin no more."  Part of loving someone is helping them turn away from sin. 

 

So back to your first sentence/my question, do you think homosexuality can be extracted from an individual to the extent that the person no longer craves it, and instead prefers the opposite sex? 

 

I think youre approaching the whole subject wrong. You need to be very careful about an individuals mental health and stability before subjecting them to some sort of treatment to make them heterosexual. Studies are supporting a genetic basis to homosexuality which would suggest it cannot be undone or the the people can be "cured".

[AugustineA]

edit: nvm. Just read yo' catechisms yall. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by AugustineA

[chrysostom]

So back to your first sentence/my question, do you think homosexuality can be extracted from an individual to the extent that the person no longer craves it, and instead prefers the opposite sex? 

 

I agree that this isn't the right way to go about it.  Chastity - which all people are called to no matter what desires they have - is about ordering our habits and desires to God.  When that is earnestly pursued, the rest will follow.  The man or woman enslaved to watching immoral images, the man or woman who gives into extramarital sexual passions, be it with members of their own or the opposite sex - all these need to be reoriented to holiness, to purity, to a preference for patiently bearing their crosses in union with Christ.  It is only Christ who can heal the wounds of our nature, but for those not healed, theirs is a cross to bear and a tremendous opportunity for sanctification and glory in Heaven.

 

"Extraction" happens in Confession and Holy Communion as Christ comes and lives in all of us more deeply, deepens our life in the Holy Trinity, and helps us overcome all habits of sin.

 

In other words, re-orientation towards the opposite sex is useless and often impossible if the soul is not first re-oriented towards God.  And for those who remain attracted to the opposite sex after orienting their lives to God and living a chaste life...it is between them and God and not for us to interfere.  (THAT is the true context of "who am I to judge?")  Orienting our lives to God is a lifelong process and I fear that an approach focused on a lesser good can wrench up a life, perhaps turn away a soul from the Church who is desperately trying to keep their faith and their chastity.

[Winchester]

I'd still like to know what eliakim would do about someone breastfeeding during mass.

[Not The Philosopher]

I'd still like to know what eliakim would do about someone breastfeeding during mass.

 

You could make a thread about it.

[Fidei Defensor]

Homosexuality is natural in so much as it occurs via the accidents of nature — that is, it is a phenomenon that occurs in a complex fashion by nature of interactions in the brain. That makes it "natural."

 

It is unnatural in so much as the proper ordering of biological species is to pass along their genetic information via reproduction, usually by sexual interaction between two differing sexes.

 

Homosexuality is disordered because it is "against order" that we find in nature.  It is not a "disorder" in the sense of a medical or psychological disorder.

 

I can tell you, being gay myself, that it really is as simple as being attracted to someone of the same sex. I have only ever felt feelings of romantic love towards other men.  This is not a sin.  Acting upon lustful inclinations is. I am called to live a chaste life, especially because of the Cross of homosexuality that I bear. However, it is never unnatural or wrong to feel love for another human being, no matter their sex.

[Winchester]

You could make a thread about it.

I don't care to do that. But thank you for the valuable suggestion.

[Eliakim]

Homosexuality is natural in so much as it occurs via the accidents of nature — that is, it is a phenomenon that occurs in a complex fashion by nature of interactions in the brain. That makes it "natural."

 

It is unnatural in so much as the proper ordering of biological species is to pass along their genetic information via reproduction, usually by sexual interaction between two differing sexes.

 

Homosexuality is disordered because it is "against order" that we find in nature.  It is not a "disorder" in the sense of a medical or psychological disorder.

 

I can tell you, being gay myself, that it really is as simple as being attracted to someone of the same sex. I have only ever felt feelings of romantic love towards other men.  This is not a sin.  Acting upon lustful inclinations is. I am called to live a chaste life, especially because of the Cross of homosexuality that I bear. However, it is never unnatural or wrong to feel love for another human being, no matter their sex.

 

The problem with all of this is that it restricts one to simply accepting the "Cross of homosexuality" as insurmountable.  With Christ, all things are possible and He is in the business of changing lives and re-orienting lives. 

 

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-homosexual-condition-can-it-be-changed-prevented/

 

It also undermines the Church's teaching by attempting to redefine "disorder". 

 

Winchester: parish official could try posting a sign/or in parish bulliten requesting parishioners step out if they intend to do that. 

 

E

[Lilllabettt]

 

I understand you have a lot of personal problems rooted in this subject, but we all need to be objective when we start throwing science into the equation.

 

 

You have this thing where you tell people you're scrapping with that their disagreement is rooted in a personal problem.  Imagine all the posts you made using that phrase lined up one after the other. Would kind of look silly wouldn't it.

[Fidei Defensor]

The problem with all of this is that it restricts one to simply accepting the "Cross of homosexuality" as insurmountable.  With Christ, all things are possible and He is in the business of changing lives and re-orienting lives. 
 
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-homosexual-condition-can-it-be-changed-prevented/
 
It also undermines the Church's teaching by attempting to redefine "disorder". 
 
Winchester: parish official could try posting a sign/or in parish bulliten requesting parishioners step out if they intend to do that. 
 
E

The Crosses given to us by the Lord are not something to be won or defeated — we must carry our Crosses throughout life and offer our suffering to God, that by his grace, we can be sanctified by our struggle.

“How unfortunate and full of despair is the life of him who forgets for what purpose God has sent him a cross to bear!”
— St. John Vianney

Edited April 8, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[Winchester]

Defeating a cross doesn't mean you no longer carry it.

 

Right. Battle's over.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Not just "homosexuals" but all men and women should be treated with dignity and love.  But it doesn't stop there.  Christ also tells the sinner to "go and sin no more."  Part of loving someone is helping them turn away from sin. 

 

So back to your first sentence/my question, do you think homosexuality can be extracted from an individual to the extent that the person no longer craves it, and instead prefers the opposite sex? 

 

if you are talking about ex-gay programs then no, they do not work and are in fact psychologically harmful. 

 

And tbh when someone says it's my "Cross to bear" it's kind of insulting, but that's just my opinion, since I don't see it as a cross since it was given to me by God. 

 

I always find it very very very very interesting that whenever members of the LGBT community are discussed sin is automatically brought up, like we're the most sinful group of people and characterized only by the possibility of sin. We're so much more than our sexualities, and not necessarily ruled by that. When people see me as a gay woman, I don't want them thinking "oh god, she must be sinning and sleeping around" even if I am (or am not)! Frankly, if I went around thinking that way straight people, they'd get pretty annoyed. 

[Fidei Defensor]

Defeating a cross doesn't mean you no longer carry it.

 

Right. Battle's over.

May God make my cross heavier but give me the grace to continue to carry it.

[AugustineA]

if you are talking about ex-gay programs then no, they do not work and are in fact psychologically harmful. 

 

And tbh when someone says it's my "Cross to bear" it's kind of insulting, but that's just my opinion, since I don't see it as a cross since it was given to me by God. 

 

I always find it very very very very interesting that whenever members of the LGBT community are discussed sin is automatically brought up, like we're the most sinful group of people and characterized only by the possibility of sin. We're so much more than our sexualities, and not necessarily ruled by that. When people see me as a gay woman, I don't want them thinking "oh god, she must be sinning and sleeping around" even if I am (or am not)! Frankly, if I went around thinking that way straight people, they'd get pretty annoyed. 

 

I'm not sure I'm following. Are you saying that God made you gay so it's not a cross? People are born with all sorts of things they are disposed towards that aren't good for them. That doesn't make them any less a cross. But.. if you think it's okay then you're right, it's not exactly a cross for you. We are all sinners, but our relationship to the Church is often influenced by how we identify. I do not identify as a member of the Heterosexual Lusting Male community. I'm simply a sinner, like all of you. 

 

Sort of your second point there. I see everybody, in their own way, doing that, even people who say they're gay or lesbian or transgender. They refer to themselves and their way of life as gay, as if their sexuality permeates everything about them: habits, hobbies, way they talk. It probably has something to do with the way the culture has developed in isolation. Sadly, sexuality is often generalized but also embraced as their entire identity. It's one of the reasons you see so much push back by international gay communities against the western LGBT lobby. 

 

And of course, my responsible post script for all this is to study the catechism and scripture; we ought to avoid even the image of grave sin. 

Edited April 8, 2014 by AugustineA

[AugustineA]

I think I ended that the wrong way.. it's the anniversary of JPII's funeral, and I wonder what he may have said here.. Man, I miss that guy..

 

Forgive me, may Jesus save us all from all of our temptations, seminarians, laity, and bring us to peace. 

 

 

 

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I'm not sure I'm following. Are you saying that God made you gay so it's not a cross? People are born with all sorts of things they are disposed towards that aren't good for them. That doesn't make them any less a cross. But.. if you think it's okay then you're right, it's not exactly a cross for you. We are all sinners, but our relationship to the Church is often influenced by how we identify. I do not identify as a member of the Heterosexual Lusting Male community. I'm simply a sinner, like all of you. 

 

Sort of your second point there. I see everybody, in their own way, doing that, even people who say they're gay or lesbian or transgender. They refer to themselves and their way of life as gay, as if their sexuality permeates everything about them: habits, hobbies, way they talk. It probably has something to do with the way the culture has developed in isolation. Sadly, sexuality is often generalized but also embraced as their entire identity. It's one of the reasons you see so much push back by international gay communities against the western LGBT lobby. 

 

And of course, my responsible post script for all this is to study the catechism and scripture; we ought to avoid even the image of grave sin. 

 

 

See my problem is that being gay is implied as being a sin…and it's not. And that it is implied that by being gay one MUST be sinning and leading others to sin…which is simply not the case. And that by even just identifying as LGBT, one is harming one's relationship with God. To the contrary, I found I was much more at peace with God and the Church when I accepted my sexuality.

 

I think the LGBT community embraces their identity to such an extent because it is still something that is considered harmful by others. There are many who think that if I sit by them I will turn their children gay, there are others who think that I shouldn't teach in schools, or that I should be able to be fired from my job because of my sexuality. By embracing our identities, we prove that we are proud of who we are despite the prejudice. There are so many stereotypes in the United States about what "gay people" are supposed to look like--gay men are effeminate, etc that are incredibly harmful to everyone involved. 

 

To get back to the original topic, I do think that if any seminarian is breaking any rule of chastity--by sleeping with a man or a woman--he should be removed from the seminary or be put under suspension. It's a part of the priesthood to live a chaste life, in this case celibacy. To frame the question as: "Rooting out sodomy" erases the many many priests who have affairs with women and even father children, such as the founder of the Legionaries of Christ (who also did many other questionable and terrible things). But I digress. 

[Just a Skosh]

I think the solution is a few albino assassins...